Texas @ sticker vs. Indiana-Bloomington w/ $$$ Forum

[princepointe]

IUB is going to remain a T1 school. You're getting a decent T1 education for almost free. $36,000 total? That's nothing compared to what so many people are graduating with.

Even if you can't get into JAG, you'll be free to pursue other PI/gov't jobs with that degree. You may not be able to get anything prestigious, but you don't need to; you'll be able to find decent respectable work if you're willing to look around, and you won't be buried under such crushing debt that you'll be anxiously trying to find high-paying work to pay it off.

People on TLS are often down on non-T14 schools, and being T14 (or in its shadow, as Texas is) really does help a lot, but given that you don't want to work for a law firm at all, go for the cheap degree and work your ass off networking during your 3 years so you have options if JAG won't take you.

Good post. I also noticed that alot of people on here are way down on non T14 even though a large majority of lawyers are not T14 grads. Great PI/govt job advise. I spoke with the Texas Air National Guard Recruiter a few weeks back and was told that if you've served theres a GREAT chance to get a JAG position but if not PI/Gov work is the way to go.

[Aqualibrium]

I had similarly worded scholarships and was able to confirm with each school that the scholarship would be renewed by gaining enough credits to "move on" and staying out of trouble. Confirm with IU though.

I'm not so sure the future ranking really matters in this instance. Furthermore, it seems to me that IU-B is a school with some staying power...I think the rankings have shown us that if you spend the money to attract people (especially those from out of state) with high numbers, and give them big scholarships that are easy to maintain, everything else takes care of itself. Judging by the scholarship and the admissions he has told us about, OP is probably a high lsat splitter...I-UB is throwing money at people like water; you think he's gonna be the last one to get some? The school will at least maintain a spot in the top 30. I personally couldn't pass up 30-40k debt at a very good school for a 200k bill unless that bill was from HYS. I've personally never been behind this "pay sticker for a name" movement though.

IMO OP should visit both schools, see where he gets the best vibe, and take a holistic approach in evaluating all other relevant factors. If you can be happy in Bloomington and the prospects of settling in that part of the nation, I guarantee you won't be unhappy about your loan repayment bills....

[BiteyTLS]

Yep, I'm a current 1L. If you have any questions, feel free to ask (either here or on the IU 1L's taking questions thread).

IU received a large grant from a guy named Michael Maurer, whom they renamed the school after. I believe that is where they are getting the money to fund these gigantic scholarship offers. It sounds like they are really going at it full force this year, even more so than last.

Great.

What can i expect as far living expenses? Rent in bloomington? Eating noodles in an apartment with one room?

As you can see, I'm VERY debt adverse. My other options are in the T14-T25 range, none of which I can justify financially compared to IU-B.

[Bankhead]

Yep, I'm a current 1L. If you have any questions, feel free to ask (either here or on the IU 1L's taking questions thread).

IU received a large grant from a guy named Michael Maurer, whom they renamed the school after. I believe that is where they are getting the money to fund these gigantic scholarship offers. It sounds like they are really going at it full force this year, even more so than last.

Great.

What can i expect as far living expenses? Rent in bloomington? Eating noodles in an apartment with one room?

As you can see, I'm VERY debt adverse. My other options are in the T14-T25 range, none of which I can justify financially compared to IU-B.

You're in luck. COL is not bad at all, and will not break you. I pay around 650 a month including utilities. For a nice place add about a hundred bucks; for a really nice place add two hundred.

Food is reasonable too... tons of quick places to grab lunch (not just chains but lots of local ethnic places right near the law school -- thai, indian, afghan, etc.) in the area for $6-10. Lots of bars around with cheap drink specials.

[BiteyTLS]

Yep, I'm a current 1L. If you have any questions, feel free to ask (either here or on the IU 1L's taking questions thread).

IU received a large grant from a guy named Michael Maurer, whom they renamed the school after. I believe that is where they are getting the money to fund these gigantic scholarship offers. It sounds like they are really going at it full force this year, even more so than last.

Great.

What can i expect as far living expenses? Rent in bloomington? Eating noodles in an apartment with one room?

As you can see, I'm VERY debt adverse. My other options are in the T14-T25 range, none of which I can justify financially compared to IU-B.

You're in luck. COL is not bad at all, and will not break you. I pay around 650 a month including utilities. For a nice place add about a hundred bucks; for a really nice place add two hundred.

Food is reasonable too... tons of quick places to grab lunch (not just chains but lots of local ethnic places right near the law school -- thai, indian, afghan, etc.) in the area for $6-10. Lots of bars around with cheap drink specials.

Is the law school on the main campus?

And most importantly, do law students get discount tickets to the IU basketball/football games?

[84Sunbird2000]

I'd take the ride. Bloomington has moved up quickly, and it's probably T35 at worst (if it drops back some). The town is nice and you'll do well in the midwest if you stick with law. Actually, hearing this makes me want to apply to IUB much more now - no strings attached ride? Yes please.

[Bankhead]

Is the law school on the main campus?

Yes, right on the edge of the main campus; right across the street from the downtown area with all the bars and restaurants.

And most importantly, do law students get discount tickets to the IU basketball/football games?

Yes, student seating. You get a discount though I'm not sure how much since unfortunately I didn't partake this year. i know b-ball is understandably more expensive than the football, and will run you a couple hundred bucks for season tix. act quickly they sell out quite fast.

[Bankhead]

I'd take the ride. Bloomington has moved up quickly, and it's probably T35 at worst (if it drops back some). The town is nice and you'll do well in the midwest if you stick with law. Actually, hearing this makes me want to apply to IUB much more now - no strings attached ride? Yes please.

Heh yeah, they are generous with the $$$. I think my dog applied and got 20k renewable this year.

[Esc]

Texas will do much better for academia. Our clerkship numbers are pretty sweet - 19 COA clerks for this cycle coming up, to start, and a good number of our grads have gone on to become federal judges and law profs.

But even as a complete Texas troll I have to agree with a lot of the other posters - free tuition to IUB beats out-of-state sticker at Texas with your non-biglaw goals. I couldn't accept 175k debt at Texas if the alternative was free tuition at a midrange T1. JAG, like a lot of public service programs, is a pretty holistic deal, and if you demonstrate your commitment to public service in your summer jobs and the rest of your resume, it is certainly attainable from IUB. Texas would serve you better, but not another 130-150k better.

By the way, the calculus changes completely if your scholarship has strings attached. I assume that "good standing" means simply that you keep your scholarship unless you are suspended, suffer academic discipline, or get arrested, or something. You should probably confirm this with IUB's admissions or finaid people, just to make sure there aren't any GPA requirements. If you find out that there are hidden strings, if you have to maintain a certain class rank or GPA, then definitely take Texas.

Hey Esc, what's the word on out-of-state'rs getting in-state tuition after 1L at Texas? I've heard different things.

It doesn't happen. The only way is to get a scholarship or to own property for a year before starting school.

[princepointe]

Texas will do much better for academia. Our clerkship numbers are pretty sweet - 19 COA clerks for this cycle coming up, to start, and a good number of our grads have gone on to become federal judges and law profs.

But even as a complete Texas troll I have to agree with a lot of the other posters - free tuition to IUB beats out-of-state sticker at Texas with your non-biglaw goals. I couldn't accept 175k debt at Texas if the alternative was free tuition at a midrange T1. JAG, like a lot of public service programs, is a pretty holistic deal, and if you demonstrate your commitment to public service in your summer jobs and the rest of your resume, it is certainly attainable from IUB. Texas would serve you better, but not another 130-150k better.

By the way, the calculus changes completely if your scholarship has strings attached. I assume that "good standing" means simply that you keep your scholarship unless you are suspended, suffer academic discipline, or get arrested, or something. You should probably confirm this with IUB's admissions or finaid people, just to make sure there aren't any GPA requirements. If you find out that there are hidden strings, if you have to maintain a certain class rank or GPA, then definitely take Texas.

Hey Esc, what's the word on out-of-state'rs getting in-state tuition after 1L at Texas? I've heard different things.

It doesn't happen. The only way is to get a scholarship or to own property for a year before starting school.

He doesn't have to actually "own" property. He just has to live here for a year. Pretty sure it's the same in most states. Ohio and California are the same I know.
http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/residency/ and http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/rea ... sch=B&rl=Y

You may want to ask the FinAid office when they make the residency determinations because you may be able to work your lease around the time frame for the 1 year

[Esc]

Texas will do much better for academia. Our clerkship numbers are pretty sweet - 19 COA clerks for this cycle coming up, to start, and a good number of our grads have gone on to become federal judges and law profs.

But even as a complete Texas troll I have to agree with a lot of the other posters - free tuition to IUB beats out-of-state sticker at Texas with your non-biglaw goals. I couldn't accept 175k debt at Texas if the alternative was free tuition at a midrange T1. JAG, like a lot of public service programs, is a pretty holistic deal, and if you demonstrate your commitment to public service in your summer jobs and the rest of your resume, it is certainly attainable from IUB. Texas would serve you better, but not another 130-150k better.

By the way, the calculus changes completely if your scholarship has strings attached. I assume that "good standing" means simply that you keep your scholarship unless you are suspended, suffer academic discipline, or get arrested, or something. You should probably confirm this with IUB's admissions or finaid people, just to make sure there aren't any GPA requirements. If you find out that there are hidden strings, if you have to maintain a certain class rank or GPA, then definitely take Texas.

Hey Esc, what's the word on out-of-state'rs getting in-state tuition after 1L at Texas? I've heard different things.

It doesn't happen. The only way is to get a scholarship or to own property for a year before starting school.

He doesn't have to actually "own" property. He just has to live here for a year. Pretty sure it's the same in most states. Ohio and California are the same I know.
http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/residency/ and http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/rea ... sch=B&rl=Y

You may want to ask the FinAid office when they make the residency determinations because you may be able to work your lease around the time frame for the 1 year

You're partially correct, and I was partially incorrect. You need to not only reside in the state for a year prior to the census date of the starting semester, but also establish a domicile - which means you need to do one of the following: own real property, own a business, or work in non-student employment....or be married to someone domiciled in Texas.

Either way, they ain't getting resident tuition after the first year.

[princepointe]

It doesn't happen. The only way is to get a scholarship or to own property for a year before starting school.[/quote]


He doesn't have to actually "own" property. He just has to live here for a year. Pretty sure it's the same in most states. Ohio and California are the same I know.
http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/residency/ and http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/rea ... sch=B&rl=Y

You may want to ask the FinAid office when they make the residency determinations because you may be able to work your lease around the time frame for the 1 year[/quote]

You're partially correct, and I was partially incorrect. You need to not only reside in the state for a year prior to the census date of the starting semester, but also establish a domicile - which means you need to do one of the following: own real property, own a business, or work in non-student employment....or be married to someone domiciled in Texas.

Either way, they ain't getting resident tuition after the first year.[/quote]


I have to disagree with you. They can LIVE here for a year and establish residency. Once your eligible for a drivers license your considered a resident. I'm from Cleveland,Oh and was stationed in Abilene,TX. I CHANGED MY RESIDENCY AFTER 1YEAR AND 1 MONTH TO STOP PAYING STATE TAX. The own real estate property ( what i believe you mant by real property) is false also. This is from the UT catalog
Establishment of residence. Independent individuals eighteen years of age or over who move into the state and who are gainfully employed within the state for a period of twelve months prior to enrolling in an institution of higher education are entitled to classification as residents. An individual who is self-employed or employed as a homemaker within the home may be considered gainfully employed for tuition purposes. If such twelve months' residence, however, can be shown not to have been for the purpose of establishing legal residence in the state but to have been for some other purpose, the individuals are not entitled to be classified as residents. Students enrolling in an educational institution prior to having resided in the state for twelve months immediately preceding enrollment will be classified as nonresidents for tuition purposes.

If the parents or legal guardians of an individual eighteen years of age or older move out of state and continue to claim the individual as a dependent for tax purposes, the individual continues to have the residence of the parents or guardians. If the individual remains in Texas, he or she may claim residency for tuition purposes as an independent student after twelve months have passed from the end of the last calendar year in which the parents or guardians claimed the student as a dependent.

http://www.utexas.edu/student/registrar ... ppa02.html

[Esc]

I have to disagree with you. They can LIVE here for a year and establish residency. Once your eligible for a drivers license your considered a resident. I'm from Cleveland,Oh and was stationed in Abilene,TX. I CHANGED MY RESIDENCY AFTER 1YEAR AND 1 MONTH TO STOP PAYING STATE TAX. The own real estate property ( what i believe you mant by real property) is false also. This is from the UT catalog
Establishment of residence. Independent individuals eighteen years of age or over who move into the state and who are gainfully employed within the state for a period of twelve months prior to enrolling in an institution of higher education are entitled to classification as residents. An individual who is self-employed or employed as a homemaker within the home may be considered gainfully employed for tuition purposes. If such twelve months' residence, however, can be shown not to have been for the purpose of establishing legal residence in the state but to have been for some other purpose, the individuals are not entitled to be classified as residents. Students enrolling in an educational institution prior to having resided in the state for twelve months immediately preceding enrollment will be classified as nonresidents for tuition purposes.

If the parents or legal guardians of an individual eighteen years of age or older move out of state and continue to claim the individual as a dependent for tax purposes, the individual continues to have the residence of the parents or guardians. If the individual remains in Texas, he or she may claim residency for tuition purposes as an independent student after twelve months have passed from the end of the last calendar year in which the parents or guardians claimed the student as a dependent.

http://www.utexas.edu/student/registrar ... ppa02.html

As I said, you were partially correct. Owning real property appears to be but one way that a person can establish a domicile, while gainful employment for 12 months prior to being in school is the way that most students do it.

But merely living in the state without working wouldn't be enough to establish a domicile and gain resident classification.

[iShotFirst]

Seems you actually proved his point, princepointe. Noone is disputing that if you live in Texas for a year BEFORE going to school that you will be classified as resident. But if you go there just to go to school, and your proof to become resident is, hey, i went to school for one year, well you are not going to get in-state. If you area student there for one year and do one of those things like buy property, marry Texas resident, etc, then you can switch to resident classification. There is no other way to become a resident of Texas while in law school for UT purposes.

To the OP, where do you want to live? To me that will answer the question. IUB is not going to get you out of the north/midwest. If you want to live in the South or southwest then you got to go Texas. If living in Indiana is worth it to you with no debt, then go there. I would visit Indiana first and make sure its a place you might like to stay (cant count on being top of the class, so be sure that if you HAVE to stay in Indiana, you wouldnt mind).

[princepointe]

Seems you actually proved his point, princepointe. Noone is disputing that if you live in Texas for a year BEFORE going to school that you will be classified as resident. But if you go there just to go to school, and your proof to become resident is, hey, i went to school for one year, well you are not going to get in-state. If you area student there for one year and do one of those things like buy property, marry Texas resident, etc, then you can switch to resident classification. There is no other way to become a resident of Texas while in law school for UT purposes.

To the OP, where do you want to live? To me that will answer the question. IUB is not going to get you out of the north/midwest. If you want to live in the South or southwest then you got to go Texas. If living in Indiana is worth it to you with no debt, then go there. I would visit Indiana first and make sure its a place you might like to stay (cant count on being top of the class, so be sure that if you HAVE to stay in Indiana, you wouldnt mind).

Yes but i'm going on the presumption that a clever law student looking for instate tuition would atleast become self-empolyed ( ebay store) to qualify for residency during their first year. As long as it's reported on your W2 it's binding in all states. Independent individuals eighteen years of age or over who move into the state and who are gainfully employed within the state for a period of twelve months prior to enrolling in an institution of higher education are entitled to classification as residents. An individual who is self-employed or employed as a homemaker within the home may be considered gainfully employed for tuition purposes. His best bet is to contact the schools Fin Aid office tomorrow morning and ask.

[iShotFirst]

Oh youre right great point about the self-employed idea. I wonder if that would count as "owning a business" as far as resident classification goes. So you could go to Law School, own your own small business in first year, then resident classification for second? That would be great

[Esc]

Oh youre right great point about the self-employed idea. I wonder if that would count as "owning a business" as far as resident classification goes. So you could go to Law School, own your own small business in first year, then resident classification for second? That would be great

No, you could live in Texas for a year, own your own small business, and then begin your first year of law school.

[Sauer Grapes]

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[Sauer Grapes]

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[JazzOne]

Seems you actually proved his point, princepointe. Noone is disputing that if you live in Texas for a year BEFORE going to school that you will be classified as resident. But if you go there just to go to school, and your proof to become resident is, hey, i went to school for one year, well you are not going to get in-state. If you area student there for one year and do one of those things like buy property, marry Texas resident, etc, then you can switch to resident classification. There is no other way to become a resident of Texas while in law school for UT purposes.

To the OP, where do you want to live? To me that will answer the question. IUB is not going to get you out of the north/midwest. If you want to live in the South or southwest then you got to go Texas. If living in Indiana is worth it to you with no debt, then go there. I would visit Indiana first and make sure its a place you might like to stay (cant count on being top of the class, so be sure that if you HAVE to stay in Indiana, you wouldnt mind).

Yes but i'm going on the presumption that a clever law student looking for instate tuition would atleast become self-empolyed ( ebay store) to qualify for residency during their first year. As long as it's reported on your W2 it's binding in all states. Independent individuals eighteen years of age or over who move into the state and who are gainfully employed within the state for a period of twelve months prior to enrolling in an institution of higher education are entitled to classification as residents. An individual who is self-employed or employed as a homemaker within the home may be considered gainfully employed for tuition purposes. His best bet is to contact the schools Fin Aid office tomorrow morning and ask.

I still think you're missing the point. You have to be gainfully employed (whether self-employed, homemaker, or other) for a year PRIOR to enrolling in law school before you become a resident. I moved to Vegas for a year and tried to come back to Texas for grad school, and it fucked me. Texas is a difficult state to gain residence for purposes of in-state tuition. I had to come back and work for a year before I could pursue my grad studies with in-state tuition.