Does Pacific McGeorge place well in Fresno, CA? Forum

[Mick Haller]

3.3 155 URM (half Mexican)

You are so close... You can claim URM and you only need 4 or 5 more points to have a real shot at Davis. Take a Powerscore or Testmasters class and bring up your score a bit more.

I'm sure they have some good LSAT teachers in Sacramento. There's no shame in waiting another year. The legal job market is still in the pits... waiting can only help.

[ANoor]

Well put. I also noticed firms in Fresno with partners who attended McGeorge for Law School and Fresno State for undergrad. Will there really be no alumni loyalty at all? I know in other markets that sort of thing can give a boost, doest that not apply to Fresno?

Also, if things were so much different 5 years ago, perhaps things could be better in 5 years? Wishful thinking perhaps, but trying to be positive here.

[Nova]

Retake in October. Start studying NOW.

[ANoor]

3.3 155 URM (half Mexican)

You are so close... You can claim URM and you only need 4 or 5 more points to have a real shot at Davis. Take a Powerscore or Testmasters class and bring up your score a bit more.

I'm sure they have some good LSAT teachers in Sacramento. There's no shame in waiting another year. The legal job market is still in the pits... waiting can only help.

Yeah I know retaking is a serious option. Logistically its hard to pull off. Especially, with my parents stance and my fiancee's situation. I hear what you are saying, and I will defintely give it thought. I appreciate the helpful response. Too often I just hear "you're and idiot if you dont retake" or "dont go to law school"

[PARTY]

3.3 155 URM (half Mexican)

You are so close... You can claim URM and you only need 4 or 5 more points to have a real shot at Davis. Take a Powerscore or Testmasters class and bring up your score a bit more.

I'm sure they have some good LSAT teachers in Sacramento. There's no shame in waiting another year. The legal job market is still in the pits... waiting can only help.

Yeah I know retaking is a serious option. Logistically its hard to pull off. Especially, with my parents stance and my fiancee's situation. I hear what you are saying, and I will defintely give it thought. I appreciate the helpful response. Too often I just hear "you're and idiot if you dont retake" or "dont go to law school"

fuck logistics. you're talking about career earnings and your future employment arc here, which is srsbsns.

[Mick Haller]

I'll tell you one thing you do have going in your favor - the law firms in Fresno are super keen on people with ties to the area. For many people, Fresno is not such a desirable place to live, so there tends to be some paranoia among employers there that people are just using them as a stepping stone to get back to something better in LA or SF.

[dowu]

TBF, you're lucky there is a forum like TLS where people will tell you the reality of the situation you're facing. You need to seriously consider retaking before making a decision that could negatively impact you and your family's future. A retake should make total logistical (word?) sense, IMO.

[apollo2015]

In all fairness to the OP, not everyone can afford to retake.

Now, if he can afford to retake, and if he thinks he is one of the people who would benefit from retaking, then he should definitely retake and enjoy virginia/job-experience his way into northwestern.

[ANoor]

This is an email I got the other day from a practicing attorney in Fresno who is a family friend:

"I graduated from UOP- McGeorge School of Law, and my son, Brad also graduated from UOP – McGeorge School of Law in 2011. He is now practicing as a District Attorney in Fresno County! If you want to practice in Central California, McGeorge is a well-recognized and highly regarded law school here. It also has many opportunities for different experiences while in Law school. My son participated in the International Law Program at Salzburg, Austria his first summer. He also participated in Moot Court competition his third year of law school. He was also able to participate in many internship programs including conducting parole hearings at the jail in Sacramento and working for a federal judge in Fresno one summer….he will attest to the great education and wonderful opportunities at McGeorge, so I would have to say that I would recommend giving Mc George a try. If you do well and finish your 1st year at the top of your class, you may have other opportunities to attend other law schools to finish, but everyone whom I know who anticipated that when attending McGeorge, ended up staying at McGeorge!"

[Mick Haller]

Your family is probably unaware of how terrible the legal job market is. Most lay people still think of lawyers as gang$$$ta money. I just graduated from a tier 1 Calif. school, and have been looking in the job market. It's incredibly brutal right now and may never get better. You go to McGeorge and theres at least a 50/50 shot you will never work as an attorney. Probably more like 70/30. And if you beat those long odds, your reward will be a lowly small firm salary.

Don't take our word for it alone. Go to Above the Law and other legal blogs. Check out the ABA employment survey data that was just released a few weeks ago. Check out Law School Transparency.

We've given you the knowledge that your parents lack. It's not their fault, they are busy living their lives and have no reason to be up to date on the legal job market. You need to resist their pressure because they most likely do not know what they are talking about.

[Mick Haller]

People with parents who are prominent attorneys tend to have success in that same job market. It's American cronyism at its best.

And keep in mind this is anecdotal evidence. You can meet the one or two Golden Gate law grads who are working in biglaw, who will tell you GGU is the greatest investment they ever made. Talk to the other 200 grads, and.... not so much.

In the end it's your call, but you've been well informed of the risks.

[glitter178]

In all fairness to the OP, not everyone can afford to retake.

Now, if he can afford to retake, and if he thinks he is one of the people who would benefit from retaking, then he should definitely retake and enjoy virginia/job-experience his way into northwestern.

can't afford a retake but can afford law school tuition and cost of living? c'mon.

[apollo2015]

can't afford a retake but can afford law school tuition and cost of living? c'mon.

Its somewhat paradoxical how the financial system is set up such that more money is available to people who are in law school than there is for people trying to get into law school.

This is an email I got the other day from a practicing attorney in Fresno who is a family friend:

"I graduated from UOP- McGeorge School of Law, and my son, Brad also graduated from UOP – McGeorge School of Law in 2011. He is now practicing as a District Attorney in Fresno County! If you want to practice in Central California, McGeorge is a well-recognized and highly regarded law school here. It also has many opportunities for different experiences while in Law school. My son participated in the International Law Program at Salzburg, Austria his first summer. He also participated in Moot Court competition his third year of law school. He was also able to participate in many internship programs including conducting parole hearings at the jail in Sacramento and working for a federal judge in Fresno one summer….he will attest to the great education and wonderful opportunities at McGeorge, so I would have to say that I would recommend giving Mc George a try. If you do well and finish your 1st year at the top of your class, you may have other opportunities to attend other law schools to finish, but everyone whom I know who anticipated that when attending McGeorge, ended up staying at McGeorge!"

One caveat to that anecdote: The guy is a lawyer, and his son managed to also get a job as a lawyer. Its reasonable to assume that part of the reason that his son got a job is due to social connections and cultural capital given to him by his father.

Unless your dad is a lawyer your circumstance is different, so you should be wary of assuming that you will be as lucky as the kid.

Also, note how he mentions "If you do well and finish your 1st year at the top of your class". If you end up failing to find a job later on, and you weren't in the top 5 percent, he may claim that you didn't try hard enough.

[Mick Haller]

http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/

Go here and download the McGeorge data. 130/330 graduates got jobs in Full Time, Legal positions. That's under 40%. And over half of those were in either solo practice or small firms.

The simple data suggest that you have at best a 1 in 3 shot of achieving a semi-desirable outcome.

[Nova]

120k for tuition is a rip off. Dont rip yourself off. Save tens of thousands of dollars and grind your way to 160.

[North]

Especially if you're about to get married, bro. Don't let your wedding present to your new family be $100,000+ of non-dischargable debt and less than a 50/50 shot at a legal job.

You're a URM, and that affords you an incredible opportunity to go to a great law school with only a little more hard work on the LSAT. The long term benefit ls of that work will far, far outweigh whatever money your parents might save you if you take their ill-informed, though well-meant, advice. Heed the pages and pages of advice you've received and CAPITALIZE.

[rickgrimes69]

can't afford a retake but can afford law school tuition and cost of living? c'mon.

Its somewhat paradoxical how the financial system is set up such that more money is available to people who are in law school than there is for people trying to get into law school.

loans aren't real money anyway. you won't have to pay that shit back for like, forever, man.

[Systematic1]

You should definitely go to McGeorge.

[ANoor]

Ok so then this is the situation:

Go to McGeorge
Worst Case Scenario: Unemployed, in debt, hungry and cold.
Best Case Scenario: Do well at McGeorge and with my background score a job at a mid-sized firm in Fresno making $70k

Retake LSAT:
Worst Case Scenario: Do worse/same and get into a worse school than McGeorge.
Best Case Scenario: Kick ass on the LSAT and get into a T14

Fair?

[lukertin]

Ok so then this is the situation:

Go to McGeorge
Worst Case Scenario: Unemployed, in debt, hungry and cold.
Best Case Scenario: Do well at McGeorge and with my background score a job at a mid-sized firm in Fresno making $70k

Retake LSAT:
Worst Case Scenario: Do worse/same and get into a worse school than McGeorge.
Best Case Scenario: Kick ass on the LSAT and get into a T14

Fair?

You're an idiot.

[North]

Yeah, this is getting old and going nowhere.

[Mick Haller]

at least we tried

[2014]

I don't see how with a retake you can possibly end up at a worse school than McGeorge. Do they even decline anyone?

[North]

Acceptance Rate: 42%
Yield Rate: 26%  

Dat yield rate...

[buckilaw]

Here is the reality of the situation:

I'm 31yrs old and want to make a career change. I want to get into law because it fits my personality and interests. My parents want me to go this year and will help with a lot of the cost if I go now. I went to Fresno State and lived in the central valley for 8years. My fiance got accepted into a nursing program in Sacramento and coincidentally I just found out a childhood friend of mine will also be attending McGeorge. He says he too has heard it places well in Fresno and the central valley. Obviously I would prefer a better school, but given all the circumstances I'm thinking long and hard about attending McGeorge. I figure worst case scenario I end up with a decent job in Fresno and best case I transfer up. Yeah McGeorge may not be the best option, but it may be one that could still work.

I'm sure I'm going to hear a lot of retake or get out of law posts. lol

No, your worst case scenario is no legal job, significant amount of non-chargeable student debt, and a three year resume gap. All on top of three years of lost income.

Sadly, from McGeorge the worst case scenario above has about a 50% chance of occurring.