URM 158/3.81 GPA Accounting Major

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kurama20
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Re: URM 158/3.81 GPA Accounting Major

Postby kurama20 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:51 pm

talibkweli wrote:
hypermeganet wrote:
kdw94780 wrote:You're definitely right. I had a 3.87 GPA and scored in the 95th percentile on the ACT in high school, but I never thought of applying to a "top" school.


You could have gone to an Ivy.

I bet less than 5% of the total LSAT taking population are black. That would mean that, assuming black testers hold to the same scale, only like 650 applicants would have a 164+. Of those, how many have a 3.8+ GPA? 20%? So, less than 150 applicants in a given cycle are black with a 164 and a 3.8+ GPA. It's not surprising that means big acceptances at the top 5 schools.


That math isn't even remotely accurate.

I don't even want spend much time discussing the normative implications of this stuff; let's just get the (hard) facts straight. From the standpoint of society at large, I personally think the numbers I've included below are nothing short of a travesty; I don't buy for a second that tests like the LSAT are inherently unfair to particular ethnic groups, but I DO think that the huge disparities that continue to exist in LSAT scores speak to how intractable the inequalities that exist really are. That said, from the perspective of a relatively qualified URM, its easy to feel a tad bit pleased at one's individual prospects as a result.

All that said, lets look at some numbers:

http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/51_graduate_admissions_test.html

Assume +/- 108 black students scored 165+ last year (Check the oft-posted link above)

According to ABA, HYS enrolled 103 black folks alone

What do you think the chances are for a black person with decent numbers everywhere else? Bear in mind NYU and Columbia took 33 black people each last cycle.


All that suggests, fairly or unfairly, that one should err on the side of optimism when trying to predict a urm's shot at a given school.



You know I keep trying to point people to this info when they are down about their admissions chances (well URMs anyway). When you look at it like that you realize that if you have a 164+ LSAT and a decent GPA as a black applicant you are almost guaranteed to be accepted to one top 14. I hate math---it's the reason why my GPA is trash--but this is one case where math actually helps me out. There simply are not that many blacks with the numbers these schools are looking for---especially by the time HYS get done sucking up the top of the black applicant pool.

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kurama20
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Re: URM 158/3.81 GPA Accounting Major

Postby kurama20 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:53 pm

SportsFanatic wrote:
kurama20 wrote:
kdw94780 wrote:But seriously, why do law schools ignore the 25-75 for URM? I just want to know what their incentive is. Does it boost their rankings or something? I know these schools all seem to be very "rankings" oriented. I know most law schools report in their class profile the percent of females and minorities in their classes.



It's because so few of us score in the LSAT ranges of these top schools--on top of that I often wonder how many of us even apply to these top schools to begin with. Look at how you were not even considering applying before coming on here---I was the same exact way in high school with top undergrads. And trust me Boalt will not mind a 158 LSAT from a black applicant as long as they have a high GPA--and you do.


Kurama20 - What are you calling a "good" GPA? 3.5+?


It depends on the school--but basically yeah a 3.5+ This will also vary based on just how high above a 164 we are talking. Once you hit a 174+ or so I don't think any schools save Yale and Stanford will really mind a GPA that's 3.0 or higher.

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GeePee
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Re: URM 158/3.81 GPA Accounting Major

Postby GeePee » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:03 pm

kurama20 wrote:
SportsFanatic wrote:
kurama20 wrote:
kdw94780 wrote:But seriously, why do law schools ignore the 25-75 for URM? I just want to know what their incentive is. Does it boost their rankings or something? I know these schools all seem to be very "rankings" oriented. I know most law schools report in their class profile the percent of females and minorities in their classes.



It's because so few of us score in the LSAT ranges of these top schools--on top of that I often wonder how many of us even apply to these top schools to begin with. Look at how you were not even considering applying before coming on here---I was the same exact way in high school with top undergrads. And trust me Boalt will not mind a 158 LSAT from a black applicant as long as they have a high GPA--and you do.


Kurama20 - What are you calling a "good" GPA? 3.5+?


It depends on the school--but basically yeah a 3.5+ This will also vary based on just how high above a 164 we are talking. Once you hit a 174+ or so I don't think any schools save Yale and Stanford will really mind a GPA that's 3.0 or higher.

I'd go a little higher than that based on some anecdotal evidence, but this is more or less true. I'd hold Kurama as a valuable resource for anyone interested in URM admissions info.

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vanwinkle
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Re: URM 158/3.81 GPA Accounting Major

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:18 pm

Apply to Cornell, GULC, and any school between 20-40 rank that you would care to attend. You will get into and get money at many of them.

For URMs, schools overlook low LSATs and look at the rest of the application; your GPA is awesome, so if your PS/DS are solid, and you have good LORs, you have a shot at some really great schools. I really honestly think you have a shot at lower T14, though a lot of people here are being a little more realistic and saying you probably will end up at a school in the 20-30 range. Consider WUSTL, BC, BU, ND, and UIUC. They will probably offer you some kind of scholarship money to attend.

Apply as early as possible! You're at a great advantage if you apply before Thanksgiving break, and a smaller advantage if you apply at least before the start of winter break. The sooner in the cycle you apply, the more open seats there are left at schools, and the less stingy they feel about giving them out.

Good luck!

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GeePee
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Re: URM 158/3.81 GPA Accounting Major

Postby GeePee » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:20 pm

vanwinkle wrote:Apply to Cornell, GULC, and any school between 20-40 rank that you would care to attend. You will get into and get money at many of them.

For URMs, schools overlook low LSATs and look at the rest of the application; your GPA is awesome, so if your PS/DS are solid, and you have good LORs, you have a shot at some really great schools. I really honestly think you have a shot at lower T14, though a lot of people here are being a little more realistic and saying you probably will end up at a school in the 20-30 range. Consider WUSTL, BC, BU, ND, and UIUC. They will probably offer you some kind of scholarship money to attend.

Apply as early as possible! You're at a great advantage if you apply before Thanksgiving break, and a smaller advantage if you apply at least before the start of winter break. The sooner in the cycle you apply, the more open seats there are left at schools, and the less stingy they feel about giving them out.

Good luck!

Agree 100%. I posted something similar in the revised thread OP posted later on.

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kurama20
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Re: URM 158/3.81 GPA Accounting Major

Postby kurama20 » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:30 pm

vanwinkle wrote:Apply to Cornell, GULC, and any school between 20-40 rank that you would care to attend. You will get into and get money at many of them.

For URMs, schools overlook low LSATs and look at the rest of the application; your GPA is awesome, so if your PS/DS are solid, and you have good LORs, you have a shot at some really great schools. I really honestly think you have a shot at lower T14, though a lot of people here are being a little more realistic and saying you probably will end up at a school in the 20-30 range. Consider WUSTL, BC, BU, ND, and UIUC. They will probably offer you some kind of scholarship money to attend.

Apply as early as possible! You're at a great advantage if you apply before Thanksgiving break, and a smaller advantage if you apply at least before the start of winter break. The sooner in the cycle you apply, the more open seats there are left at schools, and the less stingy they feel about giving them out.

Good luck!



This. But I honestly think you have some things in your profile that will lead to NYU giving you a close look (the tax stuff). You should really retake the LSAT OP. A 160+ would put you in another league!

T14Hopeful09
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Re: URM 158/3.81 GPA Accounting Major

Postby T14Hopeful09 » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:42 pm

You will be fine at those schools and I think you should apply to others. Our numbers are not that different and already this cycle, I got into UVA (RD) w/ a very generous Dean's Scholarship.

Just make sure you apply ASAP and put together a solid app.

Best of luck!

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kdw94780
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Re: URM 158/3.81 GPA Accounting Major

Postby kdw94780 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:19 pm

what about Duke? Do you think I have a good shot there?

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kdw94780
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Re: URM 158/3.81 GPA Accounting Major

Postby kdw94780 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:53 am

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/kdw94780

Looks like I'll be going to WUSTL with a nice scholly. Thanks guys. Your words of wisdom really changed my life...I got better offers at T1 schools than T2 schools.

khanvalescent
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Re: URM 158/3.81 GPA Accounting Major

Postby khanvalescent » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:09 pm

Thanks for the update - always interesting to see a person's results.

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afghan007
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Re: URM 158/3.81 GPA Accounting Major

Postby afghan007 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:22 pm

congrats kdw

this thread has pretty much convinced me to retake the LSAT and apply early next cycle




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