163 LSAT, 3.85 GPA, and Columbia Law School

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qbid275k
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:31 am

163 LSAT, 3.85 GPA, and Columbia Law School

Postby qbid275k » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:35 am

Hey Guys,

I've been trying to decide whether I should retake the LSAT or not, I got a 163, about seven points below my average practice test score of a 170, and I have a 3.85 LSAC Cum GPA (with a couple of low grades early on in my college years that I can explain to the admin board, will that make a difference)

If I choose to not retake the LSAT, and if I apply ED to Columbia or UPenn, do you think I have even any shot at all in getting into Columbia (my dream school) or UPenn? Are my chances shot?

Any advice/input would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks a lot!

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Cleareyes
Posts: 408
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:59 pm

Re: 163 LSAT, 3.85 GPA, and Columbia Law School

Postby Cleareyes » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:41 am

Retake. Assuming you aren't an URM you have virtually no shot with that LSAT at either school.

Nobody, and I mean nobody in the entire world up to and including your mother, wants to hear explanations for why you got a few low grades. Your GPA is what it is. Fortunately for you it's good enough for any school. Now raise your LSAT.

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Dialogue
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:46 pm

Re: 163 LSAT, 3.85 GPA, and Columbia Law School

Postby Dialogue » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:49 am

Even if you retake and get a 170, you'll likely be waistlisted at both.

oneforship
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:17 pm

Re: 163 LSAT, 3.85 GPA, and Columbia Law School

Postby oneforship » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:49 am

qbid275k wrote:Hey Guys,

I've been trying to decide whether I should retake the LSAT or not, I got a 163, about seven points below my average practice test score of a 170, and I have a 3.85 LSAC Cum GPA (with a couple of low grades early on in my college years that I can explain to the admin board, will that make a difference)

If I choose to not retake the LSAT, and if I apply ED to Columbia or UPenn, do you think I have even any shot at all in getting into Columbia (my dream school) or UPenn? Are my chances shot?

Any advice/input would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks a lot!


Retake. Don't write a GPA addendum for your 3.85, that sounds ridiculous to me. I didn't write an addendum and my GPA isn't even in the same stratosphere as yours. Bring our LSAT up and give yourself a chance.

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CCG925
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Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:46 am

Re: 163 LSAT, 3.85 GPA, and Columbia Law School

Postby CCG925 » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:40 am

If 170 is your average on PTs at home, there is still a chance your score will fall in the 165-169 range on Dec. 5. It just depends on 1) What the biggest problem with your performance on the June LSAT? 2) How much time you can devote to studying in the next 40 some days? and 3) What the applicant pool looks like by mid-January. Personally, I don't know anyone that has gotten into CLS without breaking 170 (but I only know 4 people) and if you retake, you do need at least a 170 and get that spread- otherwise, they will average the scores.

As for Penn, it's not like they will throw your app out - it's just a lower probability. That's what a reach school is. If you decide to not retake, then max your chances with the 163 by applying early. Why not apply? I've always loved their ridiculous undergrad/grad essay prompts. :)

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kurla88
Posts: 370
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:27 am

Re: 163 LSAT, 3.85 GPA, and Columbia Law School

Postby kurla88 » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:53 am

No shot at either currently. Retake. Great shot at Penn with a 170. 170 also makes your app to Columbia worthwhile.

No GPA addendum.

qbid275k
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:31 am

Re: 163 LSAT, 3.85 GPA, and Columbia Law School

Postby qbid275k » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:52 am

Thanks, Guys, for all your responses.

If I do not retake, what do you think my chances are at Cornell, Georgetown, Fordham, BU, George Washington, and Berkeley (strictly based on the numbers)?

Thank you all again!

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najumobi
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Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:36 pm

Re: 163 LSAT, 3.85 GPA, and Columbia Law School

Postby najumobi » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:29 am

qbid275k wrote:Thanks, Guys, for all your responses.

If I do not retake, what do you think my chances are at Cornell, Georgetown, Fordham, BU, George Washington, and Berkeley (strictly based on the numbers)?

Thank you all again!

unrealistic reach
Cornell, georgetown, and berkeley

realistic reach:
fordham, BU, george washington

if you don't retake, you would need to add some less selective target schools.

vsg211
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:54 pm

Re: 163 LSAT, 3.85 GPA, and Columbia Law School

Postby vsg211 » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:48 am

We have almost the exact same numbers (my GPA is slightly lower) and I'm applying to Fordham, BU, George Washington, also. From reading TLS and doing the law school calculator, GWU seems a bit more likely than BU and Fordham but I think a wait list is more likely for all three than anything else :/ good luck with your cycle!

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hypermeganet
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:34 am

Re: 163 LSAT, 3.85 GPA, and Columbia Law School

Postby hypermeganet » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:50 am

BU/Fordham/WUSTL/W&M

These are more in the target zone for you. GW/BC/GT - PT I think are in the realistic reach zone.

Anything above WUSTL will be a waitlist/reject. I'm in a similar boat. Retake.

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danr2040
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:46 pm

Re: 163 LSAT, 3.85 GPA, and Columbia Law School

Postby danr2040 » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:05 am

OP, you have to retake the LSAT if you want not just Columbia, but any T-14 really.

I was in the same situation as you; practicing at a 170 but ended up with a 164 to go with a >3.8 <3.9 GPA. Even after I boosted the LSAT to a 168 in Dec (applying from a top undergrad) I only managed to get into the bottom of the T-14 with no $, caught waitlists at all the rest. The problem with your GPA is that it is high, but not high enough to break 75th percentile at schools in the T-14 who like high GPA splitters (UVA, Penn, Berk.), so you will only catch waitlists with them I predict. Columbia does not seem to have an affinity for high GPA splitters and will probably reject you outright if you apply now, you need to hit their 25th percentile LSAT at least to have better than a snowball's chance.

The only reason I ended up getting off one of those waitlists (with $$$) was that I finally got the magic 170 on the third LSAT. You owe it to yourself to give this learnable test at least one more shot, you gain access to a whole new range of opportunities that are safer ITE if you get that 170. Do all the new practice tests straight through, practice early in the morning, and good luck!




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