Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

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Barry_Zuckerkorn
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Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby Barry_Zuckerkorn » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:33 pm

Hello all,

I recently graduated from the Wharton School at the Univ. of Penn with concentrations in finance and marketing. To be perfectly honest, I became disillusioned with the financial services industry while I was still at school due to the cutthroat culture amongst my peers and turmoil in the world economy. I finished with a GPA of 3.13. I will be the first to admit that I could have done a lot better during my undergrad years but the grading curve was notoriously tough and I did challenge myself by pursuing 2 concentrations. I am looking to take the LSATs sometime this fall/winter. My question is: What type of score do I need to get (I'm looking for a range) to get into a top 20 law school? Also, since I went to Penn undergrad, will I have a slight advantage if I apply to Penn Law assuming I do very well on my LSATs? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

JJim1919
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby JJim1919 » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:46 pm

Barry_Zuckerkorn wrote:Also, since I went to Penn undergrad, will I have a slight advantage if I apply to Penn Law assuming I do very well on my LSATs?


Probably, but the key word is slight. You will need to really ace those lsats though in order to have any sort of reasonable shot. Probably like 174+. Good luck!

cbreault
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby cbreault » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:47 pm

Barry_Zuckerkorn wrote:Hello all,

I recently graduated from the Wharton School at the Univ. of Penn with concentrations in finance and marketing. To be perfectly honest, I became disillusioned with the financial services industry while I was still at school due to the cutthroat culture amongst my peers and turmoil in the world economy. I finished with a GPA of 3.13. I will be the first to admit that I could have done a lot better during my undergrad years but the grading curve was notoriously tough and I did challenge myself by pursuing 2 concentrations. I am looking to take the LSATs sometime this fall/winter. My question is: What type of score do I need to get (I'm looking for a range) to get into a top 20 law school? Also, since I went to Penn undergrad, will I have a slight advantage if I apply to Penn Law assuming I do very well on my LSATs? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


No one will care about your 2 concentrations in business. They will care only marginally better that the concentrations were completed at Wharton. There's a big difference between a Wharton MBA and a UPenn undergrad degree done in Wharton. The "disillusioned" argument won't fly, because the simple question to be is asked is why didn't you simply change your major and pursue another course of study, especially since you decided to then pursue 2X the needed concentrations.

Also, you're taking the "LSAT" not the "LSATs," unless you plan on taking it multiple times.

For the top 20, I would say you need at least a 167, and that would only give you a chance at the lower top 20 to top 25.

Even for the lower top 20 to top 25 you'll probably need more like a 170.

No, UPenn law will not care that you were in Wharton undergrad.

Admissions committees will wonder why you did "notoriously" shitty in a "notoriously" easy undergrad major. You can study business at any school in the country and at the end of the day its still just business.
Last edited by cbreault on Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mr. Fancy
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby Mr. Fancy » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:47 pm

A 167/8 will probably get someone in the T20 to bite, probably WUSTL. If you really want UPenn you are going to need to be in the 170s, probably at least 172.

JJim1919
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby JJim1919 » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:51 pm

cbreault wrote:No, UPenn law will not care that you were in Wharton undergrad.


Ehhh, I disagree. Obviously it wont make up for his poor GPA, but some of the ivies prefer their own students, all else equal. I could see penn taking a 3.6/169 who went to penn over a 3.7/169 who didnt. Obviously that is not his situation, but it may matter in some situations.

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ihatelaw
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby ihatelaw » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:52 pm

Aim for a 172+. Top 20 probably a high 160s, but with that GPA a low t14 will require a 172-175 I'd imagine. The bad news is that as a splitter (if you score that highly) your cycle will be unpredictable so you can get rejections from places like Cornell, G-Town, or Michigan. At the same time you may be able to swing an acceptance at a higher ranked t14 if you put together an amazing application (there are a few people with similar GPAs at CCN). If you don't get to the 170 area I doubt you will get into a T20.



And I don't think being Penn undergrad will give you any advantage worth nothing. Neither will your multiple concentrations or tough grading curve.

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kurama20
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby kurama20 » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:54 pm

Not to get too much into your business but....Why don't you just get a job and work for a few years? I mean even with a 3.1 GPA you have a WHARTON undergrad degree. If you do not get some sort of job with your degree wasn't it basically a waste to have done Wharton? You could have just done a liberal arts major if you were going to go straight through to law school. Also work experience really helps lessen the impact of a low GPA, and you have the quality of degree that would give you the sort of job that would actually make a difference in admission chances. Work experience and a good LSAT would be especially ideal for Northwestern (they essentially require WE). Really a Wharton undergrad degree will give you more options than essentially any school outside of the top 14; so unless you get into a top 14 I don't think it's worth it unless you have a true passion to be a lawyer (which I am not necessarily sensing). Also if you got out of the finance thing because you thought it was too competitive......then I don't know what you are thinking with going to law school. The type of people who go to top law schools are some of the most competitive, arrogant, narcissistic, know-it all types you will ever meet. Just check this website for proof.

With all of that said good luck, and for the top 20 I think that you would at least need a 168 LSAT( assuming you are not URM). For top 14 170. ED at schools like UVA and UPENN would be very helpful if you pull in the 171+ range or so.

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lawlover829
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby lawlover829 » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:57 pm

wharton grad=don't mean a thing

your gpa is low

you need at least a 165

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kurama20
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby kurama20 » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:59 pm

cbreault wrote:
Barry_Zuckerkorn wrote:Hello all,

I recently graduated from the Wharton School at the Univ. of Penn with concentrations in finance and marketing. To be perfectly honest, I became disillusioned with the financial services industry while I was still at school due to the cutthroat culture amongst my peers and turmoil in the world economy. I finished with a GPA of 3.13. I will be the first to admit that I could have done a lot better during my undergrad years but the grading curve was notoriously tough and I did challenge myself by pursuing 2 concentrations. I am looking to take the LSATs sometime this fall/winter. My question is: What type of score do I need to get (I'm looking for a range) to get into a top 20 law school? Also, since I went to Penn undergrad, will I have a slight advantage if I apply to Penn Law assuming I do very well on my LSATs? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


No one will care about your 2 concentrations in business. They will care only marginally better that the concentrations were completed at Wharton. There's a big difference between a Wharton MBA and a UPenn undergrad degree done in Wharton. The "disillusioned" argument won't fly, because the simple question to be is asked is why didn't you simply change your major and pursue another course of study, especially since you decided to then pursue 2X the needed concentrations.

Also, you're taking the "LSAT" not the "LSATs," unless you plan on taking it multiple times.

For the top 20, I would say you need at least a 167, and that would only give you a chance at the lower top 20 to top 25.

Even for the lower top 20 to top 25 you'll probably need more like a 170.

No, UPenn law will not care that you were in Wharton undergrad.

Admissions committees will wonder why you did "notoriously" shitty in a "notoriously" easy undergrad major. You can study business at any school in the country and at the end of the day its still just business.


Wow you must be joking? Finance at Wharton is definitely not "notoriously easy' it involves things like Kepler's theorem and multivariable calculus, matrix algebra, and the Black Scholes formula. Realistically "notoriously easy" majors are the ones that most law school students ( and TLS posters) usually major in. They include: Political science, History, Comparative lit, and English.

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rayiner
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:04 pm

kurama20 wrote:[Wow you must be joking? Finance at Wharton is definitely not "notoriously easy' it involves things like Kepler's theorem and multivariable calculus, matrix algebra, and the Black Scholes formula.


If Wharton kids have to derive the formula from the PDE, then I highly approve.

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WassAnch
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby WassAnch » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:08 pm

According to LSN, only 2 people got in this cycle (to UPenn) with a similar GPA. One of them had a 174 and the other had a 176. Also, 4 other people were rejected and 4 more were WL'd with a similar GPA and an LSAT over 170. Your UG may help, but you are still going to have to crush the LSAT to stand a chance at UPenn.

I would guess that you would need a 168 to stand a decent chance at getting in a t20.

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h_frog_88
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby h_frog_88 » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:19 pm

kurama20 wrote:Wow you must be joking? Finance at Wharton is definitely not "notoriously easy' it involves things like Kepler's theorem and multivariable calculus, matrix algebra, and the Black Scholes formula. Realistically "notoriously easy" majors are the ones that most law school students ( and TLS posters) usually major in. They include: Political science, History, Comparative lit, and English.


So did I and I went to TTTCU. I am a little sick of the crap business majors get from lit majors. Different strokes for sure, but not easier.

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Cleareyes
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby Cleareyes » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:24 pm

h_frog_88 wrote:
kurama20 wrote:Wow you must be joking? Finance at Wharton is definitely not "notoriously easy' it involves things like Kepler's theorem and multivariable calculus, matrix algebra, and the Black Scholes formula. Realistically "notoriously easy" majors are the ones that most law school students ( and TLS posters) usually major in. They include: Political science, History, Comparative lit, and English.


So did I and I went to TTTCU. I am a little sick of the crap business majors get from lit majors. Different strokes for sure, but not easier.


YOU try staying awake through "A Feminist Analysis of Names in Wuthering Heights!"

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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby Barry_Zuckerkorn » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:33 pm

Thanks for all the comments so far. I fully acknowledge that my plans for getting into law school may seem haphazard and lacking passion. Many people who desire a career in law plan their college curriculum accordingly to give them the best shot in getting into a good law school. I guess it just took me a little longer to figure out what I want to do. In high school, I figured I had some of the qualities necessary to succeed in the business world and so I applied to the best undergrad business program and was lucky to get in. In the past couple of years, I've grown more weary of a career in finance. I did some soul searching and I realized that two of my biggest passions are sports and entertainment (music and films mostly). A law degree would enable me to pursue a career in either sports law or entertainment law.

The reason I want to take the LSAT now is that I am currently unemployed and have a lot of free time I can devote to studying for the exam. My understanding is that LSAT scores are valid for up to 5 years and so I would like to take the exam and strive for a high score now. If successful in getting something in the 170s, I figure I can work for a few years, and then apply to law school.

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Cleareyes
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby Cleareyes » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:35 pm

Barry_Zuckerkorn wrote:Thanks for all the comments so far. I fully acknowledge that my plans for getting into law school may seem haphazard and lacking passion. Many people who desire a career in law plan their college curriculum accordingly to give them the best shot in getting into a good law school. I guess it just took me a little longer to figure out what I want to do. In high school, I figured I had some of the qualities necessary to succeed in the business world and so I applied to the best undergrad business program and was lucky to get in. In the past couple of years, I've grown more weary of a career in finance. I did some soul searching and I realized that two of my biggest passions are sports and entertainment (music and films mostly). A law degree would enable me to pursue a career in either sports law or entertainment law.

The reason I want to take the LSAT now is that I am currently unemployed and have a lot of free time I can devote to studying for the exam. My understanding is that LSAT scores are valid for up to 5 years and so I would like to take the exam and strive for a high score now. If successful in getting something in the 170s, I figure I can work for a few years, and then apply to law school.


Sports and Entertainment law are HYPER competitive fields. You best be willing to do something a lot more mundane given what your options will be.

legends159
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby legends159 » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:00 pm

So is Wharton really worth the hype? I remember when I was applying for college, people would tell me that if you went to Wharton your life was set.

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Cleareyes
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby Cleareyes » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:01 pm

legends159 wrote:So is Wharton really worth the hype? I remember when I was applying for college, people would tell me that if you went to Wharton your life was set.


No school truly sets you for life.

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rayiner
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:57 pm

Cleareyes wrote:
legends159 wrote:So is Wharton really worth the hype? I remember when I was applying for college, people would tell me that if you went to Wharton your life was set.


No school truly sets you for life.


HLS comes close. :lol:

MTC87
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby MTC87 » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:01 pm

legends159 wrote:So is Wharton really worth the hype? I remember when I was applying for college, people would tell me that if you went to Wharton your life was set.


evidently it's not

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lawlover829
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby lawlover829 » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:08 pm

rayiner wrote:
Cleareyes wrote:
legends159 wrote:So is Wharton really worth the hype? I remember when I was applying for college, people would tell me that if you went to Wharton your life was set.


No school truly sets you for life.



HLS law, but I wouldn't say HLS undergrad.

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lawlover829
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby lawlover829 » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:09 pm

MTC87 wrote:
legends159 wrote:So is Wharton really worth the hype? I remember when I was applying for college, people would tell me that if you went to Wharton your life was set.


evidently it's not


hahaha or maybe op is choosing a different career? Or couldn't get a job bc of this economy. A ton of reasons.

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Cleareyes
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby Cleareyes » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:14 pm

lawlover829 wrote:

HLS law, but I wouldn't say HLS undergrad.


:shock: :shock:

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Cleareyes
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby Cleareyes » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:14 pm

rayiner wrote:
Cleareyes wrote:
legends159 wrote:So is Wharton really worth the hype? I remember when I was applying for college, people would tell me that if you went to Wharton your life was set.


No school truly sets you for life.


HLS comes close. :lol:


Blatant anti-Yale anti-Stanford anti-NYLS trolling.

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rayiner
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:17 pm

Cleareyes wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Cleareyes wrote:
legends159 wrote:So is Wharton really worth the hype? I remember when I was applying for college, people would tell me that if you went to Wharton your life was set.


No school truly sets you for life.


HLS comes close. :lol:


Blatant anti-Yale anti-Stanford anti-NYLS trolling.


I feel like a Harvard JD would be more useful if law as a field completely ceases to exist. The lay prestige of HLS is unmatched. The "DFL at HLS" hypotheticals sometimes make me wonder what I could sweet-talk my way into with just a Harvard JD to my name.

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Cleareyes
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Re: Wharton Undergrad - 3.13 GPA. LSATs needed for top 20?

Postby Cleareyes » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:19 pm

rayiner wrote:I feel like a Harvard JD would be more useful if law as a field completely ceases to exist. The lay prestige of HLS is unmatched. The "DFL at HLS" hypotheticals sometimes make me wonder what I could sweet-talk my way into with just a Harvard JD to my name.

This kind of talk just makes me uncomfortable.

Of course if you were at Harvard we could...room together....if you know what I mean.
...
...
...
Sex.

Lots of sex.

That's what I mean.




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