For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

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observationalist
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby observationalist » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:30 pm

custom_concern wrote:
observationalist wrote:
conn09 wrote:Asian Female
3.9 from a Top 10 Undergrad
162 LSAT
Fulbright, and another giant big post grad fellowship

I told her to blanket the top 20 and throw in some CA schools

But specifially

Harvard
Berkeley
NYU
Hastings
Davis
UCLA
BC
BU

With Berkeley being her top choice


Tell her to apply to the T10 and Vanderbilt :wink:

A Fulbright is a very strong soft, though it might come down to where she went and what she did (research project in Germany, for example, probably carries more weight than teaching English in Thailand because of the increased competition). We had just one scholar in last year's class, out of 190 or so students. I'm actually staying with three former Fulbrights in India... the director of our Social Justice Program is a legal scholar on development issues in India and also handles the Fulbright LLM program. A school like Vandy would probably throw $$ her way, with the very top schools giving her a serious look. Her gpa is above just about everyone's 75th which means her numbers are a wash everywhere. The primary consideration will be how her scholarship and essay stacks up compared to the Rhodes scholars out there deciding to go to law school.


I understand that a Fulbright is a strong soft, but if you are suggesting she apply only to the T10 and your school -- and if you're not ONLY kidding/trolling -- then I think this is very bad, very dangerous advice.


Oops! was joking, did not mean for the OP to take that seriously. I just meant that a Fulbright can be a game-changer, so they might as well play the game as best they can and tout whatever connections they built while serving the scholarship. Our Social Justice Program director definitely appreciates bringing in more Fulbrights, Peace Corps alums, TFAs, Americorps etc... anyone mature enough to represent the country or dedicate a significant amount of their life after college doing something challenging is going to get the nod ahead of people straight out of college with the same numbers. I would think a 162/3.9 + good Fulbright puts you at the very top of what a 162/3.9 can get for acceptances, short of an order from a Governor to let her in.

And I second both Flight 's and samsonyte's views... good stuff. k_unl, I didn't realize there are 1500 Fulbrights each year. When I applied there were a lot less than that... it looks like that figure includes partial Fulbrights? so, it's a mixture of Fulbrights and Halfbrights?

I'll be here all night. Well, not really. That's probably the only joke I've got in me right now.

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frank_the_tank
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby frank_the_tank » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:47 pm

conn09 wrote:
swheat wrote:Just because USC has 100 URMs and admitted 200+ sub 162s does not tell you anything about the other ~100 sub 162 admits. They could have all been URMs that chose other schools, or as you suggest then could have been non-URMs.

You just can't draw a conclusion from these data.


So isn't it better that we air on the side of caution and call it inconclusive, rather than making the broad sweeping statement that "only URMs get into T20s with below a 164?" I wouldn't have said anything had u said majority or significant majority. But when you say all I feel like you really discount the number of white people who also get into these schools with number that low.



If you are all about "airing" on the side of caution, your "friend" should either retake or apply 20-30.

Also, this.
legends159 wrote:sounds like she doesn't care enough about law school to take the LSAT a little bit more seriously.

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lawlover829
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby lawlover829 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:55 pm

Space_Cowboy wrote:
swheat wrote:She probably won't get into any T20 except MAYBE GULC PT. Even that is a real long shot.

She would probably get into a few 20-30, and most 30-50.


You're an idiot.


+1

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General Tso
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby General Tso » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:00 pm

lawlover829 wrote:
Space_Cowboy wrote:
swheat wrote:She probably won't get into any T20 except MAYBE GULC PT. Even that is a real long shot.

She would probably get into a few 20-30, and most 30-50.


You're an idiot.


+1


You're an idiot.

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General Tso
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby General Tso » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:01 pm

swheat wrote:
lawlover829 wrote:
Space_Cowboy wrote:
swheat wrote:She probably won't get into any T20 except MAYBE GULC PT. Even that is a real long shot.

She would probably get into a few 20-30, and most 30-50.


You're an idiot.


+1


You're an idiot.


+1

conn09
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby conn09 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:47 pm

frank_the_tank wrote:
conn09 wrote:
swheat wrote:Just because USC has 100 URMs and admitted 200+ sub 162s does not tell you anything about the other ~100 sub 162 admits. They could have all been URMs that chose other schools, or as you suggest then could have been non-URMs.

You just can't draw a conclusion from these data.


So isn't it better that we air on the side of caution and call it inconclusive, rather than making the broad sweeping statement that "only URMs get into T20s with below a 164?" I wouldn't have said anything had u said majority or significant majority. But when you say all I feel like you really discount the number of white people who also get into these schools with number that low.



If you are all about "airing" on the side of caution, your "friend" should either retake or apply 20-30.




She wants Cali or a T20. So applying to schools 20-30 that don't fit that would be dumb. And why the quotes around friend?

270910
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby 270910 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:32 pm

conn09 wrote:
frank_the_tank wrote:
conn09 wrote:
swheat wrote:Just because USC has 100 URMs and admitted 200+ sub 162s does not tell you anything about the other ~100 sub 162 admits. They could have all been URMs that chose other schools, or as you suggest then could have been non-URMs.

You just can't draw a conclusion from these data.


So isn't it better that we air on the side of caution and call it inconclusive, rather than making the broad sweeping statement that "only URMs get into T20s with below a 164?" I wouldn't have said anything had u said majority or significant majority. But when you say all I feel like you really discount the number of white people who also get into these schools with number that low.



If you are all about "airing" on the side of caution, your "friend" should either retake or apply 20-30.




She wants Cali or a T20. So applying to schools 20-30 that don't fit that would be dumb. And why the quotes around friend?


I want a pony and a rocketship, but happily I investigated backups instead of preparing exclusively to be a lunar cowboy.

conn09
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby conn09 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:06 am

disco_barred wrote:
conn09 wrote:

She wants Cali or a T20. So applying to schools 20-30 that don't fit that would be dumb. And why the quotes around friend?


I want a pony and a rocketship, but happily I investigated backups instead of preparing exclusively to be a lunar cowboy.



Because Hastings and Davis are completely out of her range....

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frank_the_tank
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby frank_the_tank » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:42 am

conn09 wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
conn09 wrote:

She wants Cali or a T20. So applying to schools 20-30 that don't fit that would be dumb. And why the quotes around friend?


I want a pony and a rocketship, but happily I investigated backups instead of preparing exclusively to be a lunar cowboy.



Because Hastings and Davis are completely out of her range....


Okay, then instead of arguing with people on this board whether she can get into a T20 or not, why not just inform her to set her sights on Davis/Hastings?

conn09
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby conn09 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:06 am

frank_the_tank wrote:
conn09 wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
conn09 wrote:

She wants Cali or a T20. So applying to schools 20-30 that don't fit that would be dumb. And why the quotes around friend?


I want a pony and a rocketship, but happily I investigated backups instead of preparing exclusively to be a lunar cowboy.



Because Hastings and Davis are completely out of her range....


Okay, then instead of arguing with people on this board whether she can get into a T20 or not, why not just inform her to set her sights on Davis/Hastings?



I wasn't aware I was arguing with anyone about this. In my first post I said I was going to tell her to blanket the T-20 & Hastings and Davis. Now given that initial post, why was anyone telling me to tell her to apply to schools 20-30 if none of them fit that? I was looking for opinions due to her unusual situation unless high GPA Fulbright winning splitters are common applicants.

Do you think the post about the rocketship was actually aimed at giving good advice, or was that person just being an ass?

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custom_concern
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby custom_concern » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:53 am

conn09 wrote:
I wasn't aware I was arguing with anyone about this. In my first post I said I was going to tell her to blanket the T-20 & Hastings and Davis. Now given that initial post, why was anyone telling me to tell her to apply to schools 20-30 if none of them fit that? I was looking for opinions due to her unusual situation unless high GPA Fulbright winning splitters are common applicants.

Do you think the post about the rocketship was actually aimed at giving good advice, or was that person just being an ass?


He/she was giving good advice. Where she wants to go is not the issue. Where she can get in is the issue. You can't really have a deficient LSAT score for the schools you want, refuse to prep hard and retake, and also expect to get into those schools.

swheat wrote:
lawlover829 wrote:
Space_Cowboy wrote:
swheat wrote:She probably won't get into any T20 except MAYBE GULC PT. Even that is a real long shot.

She would probably get into a few 20-30, and most 30-50.


You're an idiot.


+1


You're an idiot.


+1

conn09
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby conn09 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:18 pm

custom_concern wrote:
conn09 wrote:
I wasn't aware I was arguing with anyone about this. In my first post I said I was going to tell her to blanket the T-20 & Hastings and Davis. Now given that initial post, why was anyone telling me to tell her to apply to schools 20-30 if none of them fit that? I was looking for opinions due to her unusual situation unless high GPA Fulbright winning splitters are common applicants.

Do you think the post about the rocketship was actually aimed at giving good advice, or was that person just being an ass?


He/she was giving good advice. Where she wants to go is not the issue. Where she can get in is the issue. You can't really have a deficient LSAT score for the schools you want, refuse to prep hard and retake, and also expect to get into those schools.



So I'm clear, you think someone making a comment about a rocketship in comparison to what I said was good advice? I guess you're a condescending ass too. No big.

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treple
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby treple » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:16 pm

Most people here are giving you roughly the same advice and for some reason you feel like fighting everyone with it.

High LSAT/High GPA>>>Fullbright/High GPA

Your options are to either man/woman up and retake the LSAT and break 165 at the very least for T20, or start setting your eyes on Hastings/Davis with the 162. You have a very very slim shot at T14-T20, but you don't have a prayer to break T14.

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custom_concern
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby custom_concern » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:38 pm

conn09 wrote:So I'm clear, you think someone making a comment about a rocketship in comparison to what I said was good advice? I guess you're a condescending ass too. No big.


What does condescension have to do with it? You want everyone to walk on glass in their responses to your question so you won't get your feelings hurt? Don't ask questions if you're going to get bent out of shape by the answers.

uknowme
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby uknowme » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:46 am

conn09 wrote:
custom_concern wrote:
conn09 wrote:
I wasn't aware I was arguing with anyone about this. In my first post I said I was going to tell her to blanket the T-20 & Hastings and Davis. Now given that initial post, why was anyone telling me to tell her to apply to schools 20-30 if none of them fit that? I was looking for opinions due to her unusual situation unless high GPA Fulbright winning splitters are common applicants.

Do you think the post about the rocketship was actually aimed at giving good advice, or was that person just being an ass?


He/she was giving good advice. Where she wants to go is not the issue. Where she can get in is the issue. You can't really have a deficient LSAT score for the schools you want, refuse to prep hard and retake, and also expect to get into those schools.




So I'm clear, you think someone making a comment about a rocketship in comparison to what I said was good advice? I guess you're a condescending ass too. No big.


So I'm clear, your friend did sorta good in undergrad and now she wants to sit back and let the T14s come to her without putting in the work necessary to attract their attention? Someone sure is an ass.

lhfan
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby lhfan » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:08 am

1. http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com
2. plug in numbers
3. that's about it...your friend will win any ties if there's competition against someone with the same/similar numbers but I don't think the softs add any points to the almighty gpa/lsat

franksandbeans
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby franksandbeans » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:10 pm

.
Last edited by franksandbeans on Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Splitt3r
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby Splitt3r » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:51 pm

Tell her to retake the LSAT again. It's the only proper course of action.

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Mr. Fancy
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby Mr. Fancy » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:03 pm

Splitt3r wrote:Tell her to retake the LSAT again. It's the only proper course of action.


But Mom... I don't want to. The LSAT is too hard and boring...

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Splitt3r
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby Splitt3r » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:04 pm

schrutebeetfarms wrote:
Splitt3r wrote:Tell her to retake the LSAT again. It's the only proper course of action.


But Mom... I don't want to. The LSAT is too hard and boring...


"Put your big girl panties on. This is your entire fucking life. Stop being lazy." - What the OP should say to his friend.

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biggamejames
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby biggamejames » Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:43 pm

legends159 wrote:If she can get into a top 10 UG she is smart enough to score a 165 or higher on the LSATs.

Totally untrue. Considering that HYP undergrads who take the LSAT have a mean score of 165, it's preposterous to equate t-10 UG with 165+ LSAT.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74320

legends159
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby legends159 » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:41 pm

biggamejames wrote:
legends159 wrote:If she can get into a top 10 UG she is smart enough to score a 165 or higher on the LSATs.

Totally untrue. Considering that HYP undergrads who take the LSAT have a mean score of 165, it's preposterous to equate t-10 UG with 165+ LSAT.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74320


not to sound like an ass, but she's not URM and she has a 3.9

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observationalist
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby observationalist » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:46 pm

franksandbeans wrote:Wow all this talk about the Fulbright is hilarious. I'm doing one next year. My country accepts something like 15-20% of its applicants, which is about average for a Fulbright (also, someone had mentioned Germany as a competitive program. That's just hilariously wrong). That in itself should tell you a lot about how (relatively) easy it is to get one of these. I can't imagine it helping in law school admissions any more than a year at any interesting job where you would have substantial responsibility. The only thing I think it can possibly do is add some heft to a rather mediocre undergrad GPA and provide an opportunity for an interesting personal statement (which doesn't apply to people like me, who are applying this cycle who have yet to start their trip..). Anyway, few things are more annoying than having to listen to friends that think I can get into any law school because I got a Fulbright.


For what it's worth, it will help you because schools know it will make you more competitive for firm jobs. Unlike generic work experience, a Fulbright is probably in the realm of having a top UG on your resume (which also helps). There's a difference between friends thinking you can get into any law school and law students telling a prospective that a Fulbright scholarship will boost her chances at schools that would otherwise be out of reach.

Regarding selectivity, it does depend on which country, but I'm not sure employers will differentiate all that much when all they'll be putting on your eventual bio is that you are a former Fulbright scholar.

--LinkRemoved--
"Last year, for example, 182 students applied to undertake projects in Argentina where only 24 positions were open. In contrast, eight students applied for seven open positions in Bulgaria."

The acceptance rate for Germany last year was 26%, or almost as selective as Duke Law, GULC, and UT Law. For TA positions it was much higher, but that's fairly selective when you consider the applicant pool are generally all top in their class and need to be recommended by their host universities before Fulbright will even consider them.

I'm not trying to make you feel better about yourself, but just make sure you take a closer look at schools that may be out of your range otherwise... it's possible some of them may take you. Same goes, as has been said already, for the OP.

legends159
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby legends159 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:50 pm

A fulbright in the UK is very impressive

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natalie123
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby natalie123 » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:45 am

Retake the LSAT. I don't want to either, but I am sucking it up, hiring a tutor for Logic Games, and sitting down again in September. My stats are strong right now (4.0/169) but if I really, really ace the LSAT I can get into some incredible places, or be offered some significant scholarships. It is my future, and it's worth it to me.

I almost cried when first taking the LSAT. I actually almost filled in the cancel bubbles halfway through the first section and walked out because the test anxiety was so bad. But the benefits of retaking make it worthwhile. Tell your friend to retake.




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