For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

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conn09
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For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby conn09 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:50 am

Asian Female
3.9 from a Top 10 Undergrad
162 LSAT
Fulbright, and another giant big post grad fellowship

I told her to blanket the top 20 and throw in some CA schools

But specifially

Harvard
Berkeley
NYU
Hastings
Davis
UCLA
BC
BU

With Berkeley being her top choice

legends159
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby legends159 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:52 am

tell her to retake

and is the other big fellowship a Marshall or Rhodes cause if so she'll likely get Boalt?

conn09
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby conn09 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:56 am

Not a Marshall or Rhodes. I'm heistant to say her other one because it'll out her. She did get a 4.0 while at Oxford one semester though.

legends159
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby legends159 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:57 am

yeah then tell her to retake. She has a shot at Boalt but she also has a shot of being shut out of the T20.

conn09
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby conn09 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:02 am

This was her retake score. She will be refusing to take the LSAT ever again.

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bilbobaggins
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby bilbobaggins » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:17 am

She has a chance at Boalt because of the GPA, but her LSAT score will make it very, very tough everywhere else.

legends159
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby legends159 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:22 am

Well if she's a really good friend, you should make it clear to her that she might not get into a T20 school and will have to pick a regional powerhouse instead of a national name brand.

Furthermore, is there a reason why she refuses to take the LSATs again? Even 3 points will make increase her chances at anything outside the T14 dramatically. If she simply won't do it maybe law school is not something she cares deeply enough about?

uknowme
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby uknowme » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:24 am

why refuse to take the lsat? because it's hard and stressful. i guarantee school is worse. if she's afraid of the lsat again, she should be more afraid of law school. and if there's a language barrier now, school won't be that accommodating for it.

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General Tso
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby General Tso » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:28 am

She probably won't get into any T20 except MAYBE GULC PT. Even that is a real long shot.

She would probably get into a few 20-30, and most 30-50.

legends159
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby legends159 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:30 am

If she can get into a top 10 UG she is smart enough to score a 165 or higher on the LSATs. Maybe her study strategies were bad or she wasn't committed enough to it? She should take a course, hire a tutor, do whatever is necessary to score better if she really wants to go to law school. Even if she doesn't get into a better school than she would with a 162, a 165 would guarantee her a lot more scholarship money.

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby Space_Cowboy » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:30 am

uknowme wrote:why refuse to take the lsat? because it's hard and stressful. i guarantee school is worse. if she's afraid of the lsat again, she should be more afraid of law school. and if there's a language barrier now, school won't be that accommodating for it.


yeah .... not sure I'm worried about a Fulbright scholar having a hard time in class. This is up there as far as softs go. Worst case, she's going Berkeley. Best case, HYS wants themselves some Fulbright scholars.

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby Space_Cowboy » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:31 am

swheat wrote:She probably won't get into any T20 except MAYBE GULC PT. Even that is a real long shot.

She would probably get into a few 20-30, and most 30-50.


You're an idiot.

legends159
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby legends159 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:32 am

Space_Cowboy wrote:
uknowme wrote:why refuse to take the lsat? because it's hard and stressful. i guarantee school is worse. if she's afraid of the lsat again, she should be more afraid of law school. and if there's a language barrier now, school won't be that accommodating for it.


yeah .... not sure I'm worried about a Fulbright scholar having a hard time in class. This is up there as far as softs go. Worst case, she's going Berkeley. Best case, HYS wants themselves some Fulbright scholars.


wrong is so many ways.

Fulbright scholars are a dime a dozen. A Marshall or Rhodes on the other hand is a significant soft.

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby Space_Cowboy » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:34 am

legends159 wrote:
Space_Cowboy wrote:
uknowme wrote:why refuse to take the lsat? because it's hard and stressful. i guarantee school is worse. if she's afraid of the lsat again, she should be more afraid of law school. and if there's a language barrier now, school won't be that accommodating for it.


yeah .... not sure I'm worried about a Fulbright scholar having a hard time in class. This is up there as far as softs go. Worst case, she's going Berkeley. Best case, HYS wants themselves some Fulbright scholars.


wrong is so many ways.

Fulbright scholars are a dime a dozen. A Marshall or Rhodes on the other hand is a significant soft.


Nevermind. 800 of them minted a year.

legends159
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby legends159 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:35 am

yeah I was just going to post this:

http://www.cies.org/schlr_directories/u ... r_name.htm

list of 2008-2009 winners. The list is very very long

only award that are game changers are Rhodes (best); Marshall (close second); Truman (distant third).

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custom_concern
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby custom_concern » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:35 am

Space_Cowboy wrote:
uknowme wrote:why refuse to take the lsat? because it's hard and stressful. i guarantee school is worse. if she's afraid of the lsat again, she should be more afraid of law school. and if there's a language barrier now, school won't be that accommodating for it.


yeah .... not sure I'm worried about a Fulbright scholar having a hard time in class. This is up there as far as softs go. Worst case, she's going Berkeley. Best case, HYS wants themselves some Fulbright scholars.


Nah, you're an idiot. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Berkeley is a very, very long shot with that LSAT regardless of softs. HYS are 100% out.

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby Space_Cowboy » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:37 am

custom_concern wrote:
Space_Cowboy wrote:
uknowme wrote:why refuse to take the lsat? because it's hard and stressful. i guarantee school is worse. if she's afraid of the lsat again, she should be more afraid of law school. and if there's a language barrier now, school won't be that accommodating for it.


yeah .... not sure I'm worried about a Fulbright scholar having a hard time in class. This is up there as far as softs go. Worst case, she's going Berkeley. Best case, HYS wants themselves some Fulbright scholars.


Nah, you're an idiot. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Berkeley is a very, very long shot with that LSAT regardless of softs. HYS are 100% out.


Yeah, I'm starting to realize this. Especially considering swheat had the same numbers and knows what those numbers can bring in. My bad. Apparently the Fullbright isn't close to being in the same league as a Rhodes or Marshall scholar.

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General Tso
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby General Tso » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:47 am

Space_Cowboy wrote:
swheat wrote:She probably won't get into any T20 except MAYBE GULC PT. Even that is a real long shot.

She would probably get into a few 20-30, and most 30-50.


You're an idiot.


?

Only URMs get into T20s with 162 LSAT. Fulbright is a great soft but it's still just a soft. I knew a guy with outstanding softs, 4.0 gpa, 162 LSAT that applied to most T20 and got rejected at all of them. The best schools he got into were BU and BC. See link below.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/OhYeah1

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby Space_Cowboy » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:49 am

swheat wrote:
Space_Cowboy wrote:
swheat wrote:She probably won't get into any T20 except MAYBE GULC PT. Even that is a real long shot.

She would probably get into a few 20-30, and most 30-50.


You're an idiot.


?

Only URMs get into T20s with 162 LSAT. Fulbright is a great soft but it's still just a soft. I knew a guy with outstanding softs, 4.0 gpa, 162 LSAT that applied to most T20 and got rejected at all of them. The best schools he got into were BU and BC. See link below.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/OhYeah1


Man, that sucks. I get that the LSAT is important, but sheesh. It seems like a perfect GPA at a strong school should get you in at a T14.

conn09
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby conn09 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:52 am

Her other fellowship is one that only 30 people got.

And also, its numerically impossible for URMs to be the only people in the T20 with LSATs below 162. There aren't enough of them in the T20 for that to be possible.

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General Tso
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby General Tso » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:55 am

conn09 wrote:Her other fellowship is one that only 30 people got.

And also, its numerically impossible for URMs to be the only people in the T20 with LSATs below 162. There aren't enough of them in the T20 for that to be possible.


Evidence?

Here's USC on LSN....theres only one admit below 163 that doesn't identify as URM, and they could just be withholding that for some reason.
http://usc.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

Of course it isn't impossible, but the odds are greatly against her.

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General Tso
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby General Tso » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:58 am

Here is UCLA

http://ucla.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

Only 3 admits below 164, 2 of them are URM and the other 1 is a non-URM guy from TLS...I know he has come from significant economic hardship.

conn09
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby conn09 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:59 am

swheat wrote:
conn09 wrote:Her other fellowship is one that only 30 people got.

And also, its numerically impossible for URMs to be the only people in the T20 with LSATs below 162. There aren't enough of them in the T20 for that to be possible.


Evidence?

Here's USC on LSN....theres only one admit below 163 that doesn't identify as URM, and they could just be withholding that for some reason.
http://usc.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

Of course it isn't impossible, but the odds are greatly against her.



You admitted that its possible.

But USC let in over 200 people last year LSATs below 165. And the racial make up of their school tells me they can't all be URMs. A majority probably, but not an overwhelming majority. (that is of course we assume that every URM there has a score below 165)

http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchRes ... AC4852.pdf

Not to derail. Thank you for the advice

conn09
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby conn09 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:01 pm

swheat wrote:Here is UCLA

http://ucla.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

Only 3 admits below 164, 2 of them are URM and the other 1 is a non-URM guy from TLS...I know he has come from significant economic hardship.


http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchRes ... AC4837.pdf

Over 200. There arent enough URMs to be all 200.

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General Tso
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Re: For a friend: Fulbright, good GPA ok LSAT

Postby General Tso » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:05 pm

Just because USC has 100 URMs and admitted 200+ sub 162s does not tell you anything about the other ~100 sub 162 admits. They could have all been URMs that chose other schools, or as you suggest then could have been non-URMs.

You just can't draw a conclusion from these data.




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