PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Not sure where your numbers will get you? Dying to know where you stand? Come have your palms read by your fellow posters!
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specialist73
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby specialist73 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:39 pm

I agree that the OP's post was informative, well-written, and apt. However, it begs the question: What, then, IS appropriate or legitimate use of the "What are my chances?" board.

I realize that there are some abusers who have done little (or no) research of their own, or who are asking ridiculous questions/flaming. Those people should clearly be run out of the village by an angry torch-wielding mob.

Others among us -- myself included -- have done our research and are clearly looking for something that stats, calculators, and impersonal info can't provide. Perhaps some of us need a gut-check, support, or a slap in the face; some may seek personal or anecdotal evidence; others may be genuinely interested in the advice of fellow applicants.

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20160810
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby 20160810 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:53 pm

specialist73 wrote:I agree that the OP's post was informative, well-written, and apt. However, it begs the question: What, then, IS appropriate or legitimate use of the "What are my chances?" board.

I realize that there are some abusers who have done little (or no) research of their own, or who are asking ridiculous questions/flaming. Those people should clearly be run out of the village by an angry torch-wielding mob.

Others among us -- myself included -- have done our research and are clearly looking for something that stats, calculators, and impersonal info can't provide. Perhaps some of us need a gut-check, support, or a slap in the face; some may seek personal or anecdotal evidence; others may be genuinely interested in the advice of fellow applicants.


The best use is probably "given the fact that I am a minority/my awesome soft factors/my criminal record/my 10-inch wang/etc., what are my chances at school X?" This allows the TLS community to weigh in and play armchair adcomms, taking numbers and other things into consideration in a way that hourumd et al cannot.

Even people posting just their numbers are not abusing the board imho if they have clearly done some research. For instance "3.9/165/really worried about getting into Vandy" is a perfectly valid posting topic whereas "3.5/172/LAW SKOOLZ?????" is not.

Finally, we just need to do away with people who post asking which law schools they'll be admitted to without providing both a GPA and an LSAT score. It's completely uninformative to all concerned, including the OP.

This subforum is one of my favorite parts of TLS, but when used improperly it can become a haven for trolls and the uninformed. I think, being as how it always explodes in here after LSAT scores were released, the OP was simply trying to make a noble yet quixotic effort to cut through some of the clutter.

kiwislug
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby kiwislug » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:08 pm

And nobody is saying not to post chances; just read this thread first. Hence the title.

BananaHammock
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby BananaHammock » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:41 pm

Just because it is so necessary for people to read this. /bump

kiwislug
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby kiwislug » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:40 pm

BUMP

lollypotter
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby lollypotter » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:18 pm

specialist73 wrote:I agree that the OP's post was informative, well-written, and apt. However, it begs the question: What, then, IS appropriate or legitimate use of the "What are my chances?" board.

I realize that there are some abusers who have done little (or no) research of their own, or who are asking ridiculous questions/flaming. Those people should clearly be run out of the village by an angry torch-wielding mob.

Others among us -- myself included -- have done our research and are clearly looking for something that stats, calculators, and impersonal info can't provide. Perhaps some of us need a gut-check, support, or a slap in the face; some may seek personal or anecdotal evidence; others may be genuinely interested in the advice of fellow applicants.



That's all well and good but you need to do it with self awareness. Posting multiple posts asking for vague and easily searchable information swamps the board and discourages people from answering the actual requests for information. There is a Law School Admissions Forum for general information and musings about schools. There is an off topic board for random stuff. There is an LSAT board for retake information. Yes this is the internet but people spend time basically providing a service. What you have seen is the general quality of the advice go down because it is disrespected.

I'm sorry but to be blunt but if you have a question that no one here can answer, don't ask it. If you have a question that everyone, including yourself, can answer, don't ask it. Otherwise people get sick of giving advice and stop.

SocraticNudle
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby SocraticNudle » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:29 pm

And now, thanks to this thread, no one's answer [i]my[i] "what are my chances?" *cry*

I totally understand the value in the OP...yet I also feel those types of posts (the 180, 4.0, what are my chances at HYS, or 135, 2.0, what are my chances at HYS) don't get much attention or feedback...so they'll learn.

:P

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20160810
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby 20160810 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:41 pm

SocraticNudle wrote:And now, thanks to this thread, no one's answer [i]my[i] "what are my chances?" *cry*

I totally understand the value in the OP...yet I also feel those types of posts (the 180, 4.0, what are my chances at HYS, or 135, 2.0, what are my chances at HYS) don't get much attention or feedback...so they'll learn.

:P


Edit: I was kinda being a dick, but my point was that those threads do actually tend to receive way too much attention and just making them bannable or not making them in the first place would greatly improve the quality of the forum.
Last edited by 20160810 on Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mallard
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby mallard » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:42 pm

Stickied, good job!

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specialist73
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby specialist73 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:00 pm

lollypotter wrote:That's all well and good but you need to do it with self awareness. Posting multiple posts asking for vague and easily searchable information swamps the board and discourages people from answering the actual requests for information. There is a Law School Admissions Forum for general information and musings about schools. There is an off topic board for random stuff. There is an LSAT board for retake information. Yes this is the internet but people spend time basically providing a service. What you have seen is the general quality of the advice go down because it is disrespected.

I'm sorry but to be blunt but if you have a question that no one here can answer, don't ask it. If you have a question that everyone, including yourself, can answer, don't ask it. Otherwise people get sick of giving advice and stop.


I wasn't actually questioning the validity of (or disagreeing with) your post. I found your advice to be insightful and your points valid.

I was curious, given the advice and parameters you'd put forth , to hear what you -- or other seasoned participants here -- would consider appropriate "Chances?" posts. You (and others) have made excellent points regarding what constitutes an abuse of this particular space. With the exception of SBL, no one has said much about what would be considered a worthwhile inquiry.

I know that I'm new here, and that new users can be a real pain in the ass with their stupid questions...but I'm smitten enough with TLS and the wealth of info/opinion available here to keep trying to understand how best to avoid the wrong end of that torch wielding mob.

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teaadntoast
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby teaadntoast » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:46 am

Bump

lsatbobby
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby lsatbobby » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:28 am

Does anyone else think lawschoolcalculator.com might be a little stoned?


Yes...

It keeps telling me I have an extroardinarily high chance to get into NYU, which I don't

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doyleoil
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby doyleoil » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:45 am

i love this post, and i simply want to add an extra rule to it: posting a graduate school gpa should just be flat-out banned on this site - the fact that you went to grad school and got an advanced degree is great - nobody (not adcomms, not us, nobody) gives a flying f--- about your grad school gpa, and here's why: it's virtually impossible to get anything below a "b" at any graduate program in the country - graduate gpa's are skewed and irrelevant - they mean nothing to future employers (more important is your research/publication record) and they mean nothing to law schools

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teaadntoast
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby teaadntoast » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:49 am

doyleoil wrote:i love this post, and i simply want to add an extra rule to it: posting a graduate school gpa should just be flat-out banned on this site - the fact that you went to grad school and got an advanced degree is great - nobody (not adcomms, not us, nobody) gives a flying f--- about your grad school gpa, and here's why: it's virtually impossible to get anything below a "b" at any graduate program in the country - graduate gpa's are skewed and irrelevant - they mean nothing to future employers (more important is your research/publication record) and they mean nothing to law schools


I agree to an extent.

If you're interested in IP law a graduate degree in a hard science is almost mandatory.

Research and publication can be very important depending on what you're going to law school to DO. If you're pitching yourself to HYS as a future academic, having peer-reviewed articles on your CV is going to be a big selling point.

kiwislug
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby kiwislug » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:30 pm

This thread needs to be bumped everyday

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20160810
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby 20160810 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:43 pm

As is has been stickied, that is probably not the case.

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ColtonDLong
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby ColtonDLong » Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:26 pm

.
Last edited by ColtonDLong on Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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crystalhawkeye
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby crystalhawkeye » Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:34 pm

SoftBoiledLife wrote:Also "3.98, 179, URM - chances at HYS?" threads should be bannable


But I simply have to know!

Oh, and to lollypotter: brilliant. You are my new hero.

polaris769
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby polaris769 » Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:07 am

You make some good points Lollypotter. However, you miss some obvious issues such as the fact that sometimes people post in the "what are my chances" forum simply for reassurance (I know you acknowledged this, but you failed to understand how important it is for people to be reassured). This is supposed to be a friendly community, though from the tone of your posts, you seem to have forgotten that fact. And its only human nature to seek reassurance from your friends or peers. Also, quite frankly, people may not share your viewpoints. If you don't like some aspects of the forum, then don't visit it.

lollypotter
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby lollypotter » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:54 am

polaris769 wrote:You make some good points Lollypotter. However, you miss some obvious issues such as the fact that sometimes people post in the "what are my chances" forum simply for reassurance (I know you acknowledged this, but you failed to understand how important it is for people to be reassured). This is supposed to be a friendly community, though from the tone of your posts, you seem to have forgotten that fact. And its only human nature to seek reassurance from your friends or peers. Also, quite frankly, people may not share your viewpoints. If you don't like some aspects of the forum, then don't visit it.


hahaha

Thank you for proving my point. I didn't miss the fact that people post for reassurance, I openly railed against it. People may need reassurance and so may post multiple times for it but it is counter productive in the long term. The more this board is spammed, yes spammed, the less people actually engage with it. There are pages and pages of unanswered queries, some looking for reassurance but some genuinely looking for answers. The people who want a pat on the back are hurting everyone by turning people off the thread. There are other boards to post on for reassurance - the actual main Law School Admissions Forum for a start. The off topic board. Also, people can look for reassurance AND still do some homework themselves. It's clear reading posts that most people don't even know the medians of the schools they are applying to. They can't even be bothered to check lsac but they expect someone else to spend time to gather the information to reassure them. Well, that's their prerogative. But their posts will just be answered with crappy superficial advice from johnny 10 posts like you, and in most cases won't be answered at all.

The way the board used to run is this - let's say I have a 3.5/172 (I don't) so I do a bunch of research and find out roughly my chances. Maybe I even post for help on this forum. I get a good idea of what my chances are. Then I see a query on this forum, I post what I know - based on my research. People used to research quite heavily for themselves, I remember discovering lsn for the first time and spending hours and hours reading every Harvard acceptance for URMs/non URMs/Int students for 3 years trying to predict my chances. That's how accurate info is passed on. That's how people get a good idea of approx chances and 'board wisdom' is developed.

But if people who've actually researched this in detail don't wanna post because most of it is repetitive spamming by people who post on 4 boards over and over, then what advice is being given? Oh yeah, some random person plugs in your chances on hourumd and posts some long diatribe based off that? Or people post based off their feeling of how it 'should be'. So now people HAVE to do some detailed research for themselves and can bring it to the board or they can choose to try to believe poor advice from people who know even less than they know.

But, hey, if you're that insecure, enjoy.

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20160810
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby 20160810 » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:04 am

People needn't be terrified that some sort of forums Robespierre will behead them for posting a crap thread. On the other hand, if people are at least 1% afraid to post, we will have a lot less bad threads, the overall quality of this subforum will skyrocket, and those who have done a little research and need good, specific answers will be able to get what they came for. Everybody wins, and the place still stays pretty friendly. It's not MySpace, it's a site for pre-law students seeking accurate information and informed perspectives.

polaris769
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby polaris769 » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:41 am

First, I have posted exactly two what are my chances threads- one after my first test, and one after my second test. Also, since I don't post as often as you, is my opinion somehow less valuable- i.e. Johnny ten posts? My opinion is always based on sound facts, and I have also obsessively spent a lot of hours on LSN. I am also not as big a fan of retakes as you- you believe even one point helps even if the person in question is 3-4 points below the medians of their target schools. You also seem to have self-appointed yourself a moderator, and an omniscient fountain of truth. The question is- are you that insecure that if someone posts a badly worded "what are my chances" thread, you must rail against it and organize a witch-hunt?

Edit: Not directed to SBL
Last edited by polaris769 on Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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20160810
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby 20160810 » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:19 pm

polaris769 wrote:First, I have posted exactly two what are my chances threads- one after my first test, and one after my second test. Also, since I don't post as often as you, is my opinion somehow less valuable- i.e. Johnny ten posts? My opinion is always based on sound facts, and I have also obsessively spent a lot of hours on LSN. I am also not as big a fan of retakes as you- you believe even one point helps even if the person in question is 3-4 points below the medians of their target schools. You also seem to have self-appointed yourself a moderator, and an omniscient fountain of truth. The question is- are you that insecure that if someone posts a badly worded "what are my chances" thread, you must rail against it and organize a witch-hunt?


To whom was this directed?

In case it was me, I'll answer: A little vigilante justice keeps the Internet safe and interesting.

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A'nold
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby A'nold » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:31 pm

SoftBoiledLife wrote:
polaris769 wrote:First, I have posted exactly two what are my chances threads- one after my first test, and one after my second test. Also, since I don't post as often as you, is my opinion somehow less valuable- i.e. Johnny ten posts? My opinion is always based on sound facts, and I have also obsessively spent a lot of hours on LSN. I am also not as big a fan of retakes as you- you believe even one point helps even if the person in question is 3-4 points below the medians of their target schools. You also seem to have self-appointed yourself a moderator, and an omniscient fountain of truth. The question is- are you that insecure that if someone posts a badly worded "what are my chances" thread, you must rail against it and organize a witch-hunt?


To whom was this directed?

In case it was me, I'll answer: A little vigilante justice keeps the Internet safe and interesting.



"an omniscient fountain of truth"

Bwahahahaha, and don't you forget it softboiled! :roll:

kiwislug
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Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES

Postby kiwislug » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:39 pm

polaris769 wrote:First, I have posted exactly two what are my chances threads- one after my first test, and one after my second test. Also, since I don't post as often as you, is my opinion somehow less valuable- i.e. Johnny ten posts? My opinion is always based on sound facts, and I have also obsessively spent a lot of hours on LSN. I am also not as big a fan of retakes as you- you believe even one point helps even if the person in question is 3-4 points below the medians of their target schools. You also seem to have self-appointed yourself a moderator, and an omniscient fountain of truth. The question is- are you that insecure that if someone posts a badly worded "what are my chances" thread, you must rail against it and organize a witch-hunt?


I think the point is that the more spam there is on the board the less often veterans of the forums who might actually know what they are talking about care to respond. I am a newbie too and I have noticed the decline in quality threads in a just a few weeks. If you have found these forums useful in the past it is because there was a higher ratio of people discussion questions than asking them.




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