What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

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QabusNama

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What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby QabusNama » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:12 pm

3.55 from Tufts 170LSAT. I plan on taking a year off after I graduate to work so I haven’t applied yet. I know my GPA is quite low but I have a very good trend (3.8 for my last two semesters). Further, I have some solid letters of reccomendation from both professors and professionals in the legal world. What are my chances of getting accepted into Stanford or Georgetown Law?

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Br3v

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby Br3v » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:15 pm

QabusNama wrote:3.55 from Tufts 170LSAT. I plan on taking a year off after I graduate to work so I haven’t applied yet. I know my GPA is quite low but I have a very good trend (3.8 for my last two semesters). Further, I have some solid letters of reccomendation from both professors and professionals in the legal world. What are my chances of getting accepted into Stanford or Georgetown Law?

Why are you focusing on Stanford and Georgetown?

sparkytrainer

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby sparkytrainer » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:19 pm

0% at S, probable at GT. But two completely different schools, with completely different employment outcomes, in completely different parts of the country makes no sense.

QabusNama

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby QabusNama » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:28 pm

Br3v wrote:
QabusNama wrote:3.55 from Tufts 170LSAT. I plan on taking a year off after I graduate to work so I haven’t applied yet. I know my GPA is quite low but I have a very good trend (3.8 for my last two semesters). Further, I have some solid letters of reccomendation from both professors and professionals in the legal world. What are my chances of getting accepted into Stanford or Georgetown Law?

Why are you focusing on Stanford and Georgetown?

Pretty much because they are completely different schools with different employment opportunities. Im from California but I want to do international law (I speak 3 languages) so Georgetown is probably my number one since I definitely can’t get into Harvard or Columbia with a 3.5. I’m also looking into GW, Duke, Umich etc I’d apply to USC but after speaking with lawyers who do international contract law/arbitration it was made clear that I’ll have to stick to the East Coast to break into that world. Im really hoping that my Tufts degree will help me get into at T15.

sparkytrainer

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby sparkytrainer » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:33 pm

QabusNama wrote:
Br3v wrote:
QabusNama wrote:3.55 from Tufts 170LSAT. I plan on taking a year off after I graduate to work so I haven’t applied yet. I know my GPA is quite low but I have a very good trend (3.8 for my last two semesters). Further, I have some solid letters of reccomendation from both professors and professionals in the legal world. What are my chances of getting accepted into Stanford or Georgetown Law?

Why are you focusing on Stanford and Georgetown?

Pretty much because they are completely different schools with different employment opportunities. Im from California but I want to do international law (I speak 3 languages) so Georgetown is probably my number one since I definitely can’t get into Harvard or Columbia with a 3.5. I’m also looking into GW, Duke, Umich etc I’d apply to USC but after speaking with lawyers who do international contract law/arbitration it was made clear that I’ll have to stick to the East Coast to break into that world. Im really hoping that my Tufts degree will help me get into at T15.


I am not going to respond to the rest of this other than to say its the t13 now. It is clear from the data there is a significant drop off between Cornell at t13 and then GT and UT below.

You should look into schools more. Duke's employment numbers are second to none other than to Columbia. GW is nowhere close to Duke. Nor to UVA/Mich.

You really need to spend some more time researching.

QabusNama

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby QabusNama » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:44 pm

sparkytrainer wrote:
QabusNama wrote:
Br3v wrote:
QabusNama wrote:3.55 from Tufts 170LSAT. I plan on taking a year off after I graduate to work so I haven’t applied yet. I know my GPA is quite low but I have a very good trend (3.8 for my last two semesters). Further, I have some solid letters of reccomendation from both professors and professionals in the legal world. What are my chances of getting accepted into Stanford or Georgetown Law?

Why are you focusing on Stanford and Georgetown?

Pretty much because they are completely different schools with different employment opportunities. Im from California but I want to do international law (I speak 3 languages) so Georgetown is probably my number one since I definitely can’t get into Harvard or Columbia with a 3.5. I’m also looking into GW, Duke, Umich etc I’d apply to USC but after speaking with lawyers who do international contract law/arbitration it was made clear that I’ll have to stick to the East Coast to break into that world. Im really hoping that my Tufts degree will help me get into at T15.


I am not going to respond to the rest of this other than to say its the t13 now. It is clear from the data there is a significant drop off between Cornell at t13 and then GT and UT below.

You should look into schools more. Duke's employment numbers are second to none other than to Columbia. GW is nowhere close to Duke. Nor to UVA/Mich.

You really need to spend some more time researching.

Will do. What do you think my chances are at a T13 acceptance?

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:54 pm

QabusNama wrote:Pretty much because they are completely different schools with different employment opportunities. Im from California but I want to do international law (I speak 3 languages) so Georgetown is probably my number one since I definitely can’t get into Harvard or Columbia with a 3.5. I’m also looking into GW, Duke, Umich etc I’d apply to USC but after speaking with lawyers who do international contract law/arbitration it was made clear that I’ll have to stick to the East Coast to break into that world. Im really hoping that my Tufts degree will help me get into at T15.

No disrespect meant (I didn't get into any of these schools), but if you're not getting into H and Columbia with a 3.5 you're certainly not getting into Stanford with one.

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby QabusNama » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:56 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
QabusNama wrote:Pretty much because they are completely different schools with different employment opportunities. Im from California but I want to do international law (I speak 3 languages) so Georgetown is probably my number one since I definitely can’t get into Harvard or Columbia with a 3.5. I’m also looking into GW, Duke, Umich etc I’d apply to USC but after speaking with lawyers who do international contract law/arbitration it was made clear that I’ll have to stick to the East Coast to break into that world. Im really hoping that my Tufts degree will help me get into at T15.

No disrespect meant (I didn't get into any of these schools), but if you're not getting into H and Columbia with a 3.5 you're certainly not getting into Stanford with one.
That’s totally fair.

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby wmbuff » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:36 pm

QabusNama wrote:3.55 from Tufts 170LSAT. I plan on taking a year off after I graduate to work so I haven’t applied yet. I know my GPA is quite low but I have a very good trend (3.8 for my last two semesters). Further, I have some solid letters of reccomendation from both professors and professionals in the legal world. What are my chances of getting accepted into Stanford or Georgetown Law?


Your chances at most of the t13 could improve with a higher LSAT. If you don't feel like you've reached your maximum potential there, a June retake might be worth considering.
Last edited by wmbuff on Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Br3v

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby Br3v » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:47 pm

QabusNama wrote:
Br3v wrote:
QabusNama wrote:3.55 from Tufts 170LSAT. I plan on taking a year off after I graduate to work so I haven’t applied yet. I know my GPA is quite low but I have a very good trend (3.8 for my last two semesters). Further, I have some solid letters of reccomendation from both professors and professionals in the legal world. What are my chances of getting accepted into Stanford or Georgetown Law?

Why are you focusing on Stanford and Georgetown?

Pretty much because they are completely different schools with different employment opportunities. Im from California but I want to do international law (I speak 3 languages) so Georgetown is probably my number one since I definitely can’t get into Harvard or Columbia with a 3.5. I’m also looking into GW, Duke, Umich etc I’d apply to USC but after speaking with lawyers who do international contract law/arbitration it was made clear that I’ll have to stick to the East Coast to break into that world. Im really hoping that my Tufts degree will help me get into at T15.


I'm not sure why'd you'd focus on "completely different schools." They are both good schools though, and congrats on your Lsat. As mentioned above, an even higher Lsat would be helpful if you have the stomach to study and take it again. This is a helpful website to gauge where you are likely to get in:
http://lawschoolnumbers.com

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby Rigo » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:40 am

Tufts won't help you.

Blanket T13 NYU on down. Apply to the T20, WUSTL for $$$ and USC too. Don't cross good options off your list up front just because you talked to a person. Maximize your options now and decide on that stuff later.

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby QabusNama » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:19 pm

Rigo wrote:Tufts won't help you.

Blanket T13 NYU on down. Apply to the T20, WUSTL for $$$ and USC too. Don't cross good options off your list up front just because you talked to a person. Maximize your options now and decide on that stuff later.

Why wouldn't Tufts help me? Do you have any idea of the rigor/quality of education here? Still I will apply to all T13 and a few T20 schools

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby pancakes3 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:22 pm

lol @ the academic rigor of tufts

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby mcmand » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:27 pm

QabusNama wrote:Why wouldn't Tufts help me? Do you have any idea of the rigor/quality of education here? Still I will apply to all T13 and a few T20 schools


Of the two Tufts people I've talked to about Tufts (you included), both think their school is a BFD for some reason. No idea why, they don't do anything different than any other private university.

Law schools don't really care what your undergrad was, as long as it was a legitimate accredited place to get a BA/BS. They want GPA and LSAT. Everything else is a wash.

Law school admissions aren't like undergrad. Whenever you catch yourself pumping yourself up about things on your app like your alma mater or fancy internships, remind yourself that law schools will not care. The vast majority of applicant outcomes hew to numbers.

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby covfefe » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:45 pm

mcmand wrote:
QabusNama wrote:Why wouldn't Tufts help me? Do you have any idea of the rigor/quality of education here? Still I will apply to all T13 and a few T20 schools

Of the two Tufts people I've talked to about Tufts (you included), both think their school is a BFD for some reason. No idea why, they don't do anything different than any other private university.

Law schools don't really care what your undergrad was, as long as it was a legitimate accredited place to get a BA/BS. They want GPA and LSAT. Everything else is a wash.


That last piece: at the end of the day, your alma mater won't matter. Saying "Tufts won't help you" isn't a dig at Tufts as much as it is saying that it won't make a huge difference in how law schools perceive you. Perhaps more importantly though, Tufts isn't going to hurt you; no one will look at Tufts and say 'oh that school is nuts easy, I can't believe that kid doesn't have a 4.0 given the school.'

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby 1MichMan23 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:37 pm

Where you went to undergrad definitely matters, especially at the margins where a lot of people have similar LSAT/UGPA profiles, and especially if you went to undergrad at places like Stanford, Princeton, MIT, Harvard, Yale.

You can check the stats on that, and it plays a role in admissions decisions even if it's not something that's broadcast (of course all law schools want to drive up their applicant number count). Numbers don't lie.

But yeah Tufts isn't going to move the needle (unless your major is something that might stand out, like physics or engineering).

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:50 pm

1MichMan23 wrote:Where you went to undergrad definitely matters, especially at the margins where a lot of people have similar LSAT/UGPA profiles, and especially if you went to undergrad at places like Stanford, Princeton, MIT, Harvard, Yale.

You can check the stats on that, and it plays a role in admissions decisions even if it's not something that's broadcast (of course all law schools want to drive up their applicant number count). Numbers don't lie.

But yeah Tufts isn't going to move the needle (unless your major is something that might stand out, like physics or engineering).

I agree undergrad matters in distinguishing between otherwise similar candidates. I don’t think it’s going to lead you to perform as if you have a higher LSAT/GPA than you do. I also don’t think anyone should plan their applications on the assumption that their UG will help.

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby Rigo » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:45 am

But her emails Tufts!

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby goldenbear2020 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:58 am

QabusNama wrote:
Rigo wrote:Tufts won't help you.

Blanket T13 NYU on down. Apply to the T20, WUSTL for $$$ and USC too. Don't cross good options off your list up front just because you talked to a person. Maximize your options now and decide on that stuff later.

Why wouldn't Tufts help me? Do you have any idea of the rigor/quality of education here? Still I will apply to all T13 and a few T20 schools

Tufts won't help you because:
(a) law schools don't care much about undergrad rigor/quality except possibly the top few (HYPS)
(b) even if law schools did care, Tufts is probably average or even below average among T13 students

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby QabusNama » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:52 pm

goldenbear2020 wrote:
QabusNama wrote:
Rigo wrote:Tufts won't help you.

Blanket T13 NYU on down. Apply to the T20, WUSTL for $$$ and USC too. Don't cross good options off your list up front just because you talked to a person. Maximize your options now and decide on that stuff later.

Why wouldn't Tufts help me? Do you have any idea of the rigor/quality of education here? Still I will apply to all T13 and a few T20 schools

Tufts won't help you because:
(a) law schools don't care much about undergrad rigor/quality except possibly the top few (HYPS)
(b) even if law schools did care, Tufts is probably average or even below average among T13 students

No vitriol intended, but Im not sure you know what kind of school Tufts is. For the last several years it has ben ranked higher than UC Berkeley,Cornell,and Notre Dame. Last year was rated higher than University of Chicago, Cal Tech, Duke, and Georgetown. Sure rankings might not mean anything as they often fluctuate significantly, but to claim that we are below average is among T13 is just ignorant.

mcmand

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby mcmand » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:02 pm

I don't really have a stake in this brewing fight, but you conceded your own argument.

QabusNama wrote:Sure rankings might not mean anything as they often fluctuate significantly, but to claim that we are below average is among T13 is just ignorant.


If rankings don't mean anything, then how can you claim what kind of school Tufts is vis-a-vis other schools? I'm sure you have received an adequate education and that you have worked hard but try not to get into a prestige pissing match. It's not a good look.
Last edited by mcmand on Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby laowhynot109 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:06 pm

QabusNama wrote:
goldenbear2020 wrote:
QabusNama wrote:
Rigo wrote:Tufts won't help you.

Blanket T13 NYU on down. Apply to the T20, WUSTL for $$$ and USC too. Don't cross good options off your list up front just because you talked to a person. Maximize your options now and decide on that stuff later.

Why wouldn't Tufts help me? Do you have any idea of the rigor/quality of education here? Still I will apply to all T13 and a few T20 schools

Tufts won't help you because:
(a) law schools don't care much about undergrad rigor/quality except possibly the top few (HYPS)
(b) even if law schools did care, Tufts is probably average or even below average among T13 students

No vitriol intended, but Im not sure you know what kind of school Tufts is. For the last several years it has ben ranked higher than UC Berkeley,Cornell,and Notre Dame. Last year was rated higher than University of Chicago, Cal Tech, Duke, and Georgetown. Sure rankings might not mean anything as they often fluctuate significantly, but to claim that we are below average is among T13 is just ignorant.



FACT CHECK:

Tufts is ranked 29th by US News. That is lower than every single school that you just listed. Don't get me wrong, Tufts is a great school. However, you are not special just because you went to Tufts.

Source: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ra ... iversities
Last edited by laowhynot109 on Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

albanach

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby albanach » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:06 pm

QabusNama wrote:No vitriol intended, but Im not sure you know what kind of school Tufts is. For the last several years it has ben ranked higher than UC Berkeley,Cornell,and Notre Dame. Last year was rated higher than University of Chicago, Cal Tech, Duke, and Georgetown. Sure rankings might not mean anything as they often fluctuate significantly, but to claim that we are below average is among T13 is just ignorant.


Okay, seriously we get that you like your school. That's great.

With that said, a 3.7 in 19th century European Literature from Kalamazoo College beats your 3.5 from Tufts in the law school admissions game. You should retake and increase your LSAT by a point or three. Then you can do a bit more research on employment outcomes and use that to guide you on a school choice.

Are your language skills useful for international law, are you fluent in an in-demand language? Can you compete against natives - there's no shortage of international students in JD and LLM programs. Do you read and write as well as speak the languages?

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby QabusNama » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:11 pm

laowhynot109 wrote:
QabusNama wrote:
goldenbear2020 wrote:
QabusNama wrote:
Rigo wrote:Tufts won't help you.

Blanket T13 NYU on down. Apply to the T20, WUSTL for $$$ and USC too. Don't cross good options off your list up front just because you talked to a person. Maximize your options now and decide on that stuff later.

Why wouldn't Tufts help me? Do you have any idea of the rigor/quality of education here? Still I will apply to all T13 and a few T20 schools

Tufts won't help you because:
(a) law schools don't care much about undergrad rigor/quality except possibly the top few (HYPS)
(b) even if law schools did care, Tufts is probably average or even below average among T13 students

No vitriol intended, but Im not sure you know what kind of school Tufts is. For the last several years it has ben ranked higher than UC Berkeley,Cornell,and Notre Dame. Last year was rated higher than University of Chicago, Cal Tech, Duke, and Georgetown. Sure rankings might not mean anything as they often fluctuate significantly, but to claim that we are below average is among T13 is just ignorant.



FACT CHECK:

Tufts is ranked 29th by US News. That is lower than every single school that you just listed. Don't get me wrong, Tufts is a great school. However, you are not special just because you went to Tufts.

Source: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ra ... iversities

FACT CHECK: this is the source I am referring to https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliespo ... 97d6c74b0f

QabusNama

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Re: What are my chances for Stanford and/or Georgetown

Postby QabusNama » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:16 pm

albanach wrote:
QabusNama wrote:No vitriol intended, but Im not sure you know what kind of school Tufts is. For the last several years it has ben ranked higher than UC Berkeley,Cornell,and Notre Dame. Last year was rated higher than University of Chicago, Cal Tech, Duke, and Georgetown. Sure rankings might not mean anything as they often fluctuate significantly, but to claim that we are below average is among T13 is just ignorant.


Okay, seriously we get that you like your school. That's great.

With that said, a 3.7 in 19th century European Literature from Kalamazoo College beats your 3.5 from Tufts in the law school admissions game. You should retake and increase your LSAT by a point or three. Then you can do a bit more research on employment outcomes and use that to guide you on a school choice.

Are your language skills useful for international law, are you fluent in an in-demand language? Can you compete against natives - there's no shortage of international students in JD and LLM programs. Do you read and write as well as speak the languages?

Thanks for the advice, I will retake and try to get my score up. I am a double major and one of those is in an in-demand language. I am fluent in two languages ( I grew up bilingual) and conversant in a further two. While in law school my aim is to reach fluency in a third language.



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