3.58/175, T10 Forum

[PWADatUNC]

I am a non-URM, one time LSAT taker. My adjusted GPA is 3.58 (3.49 actual). I am a Virginia resident, and really want to attend UVA for law school. However, I am very risk averse financially and do not want to take on an enormous amount of debt. What are my chances at t10? I have applied to:

Harvard
Columbia
UVA
Duke
Vanderbilt
Washington & Lee
William and Mary

I want to clerk in VA or DC after graduation. What are my chances of admission at the t10 schools, and getting scholarships at others? I've looked at myLSN but there isn't an option to see instate vs out-of-state.

[Nebby]

[Clemenceau]

I am a non-URM, one time LSAT taker. My adjusted GPA is 3.58 (3.49 actual). I am a Virginia resident, and really want to attend UVA for law school. However, I am very risk averse financially and do not want to take on an enormous amount of debt. What are my chances at t10? I have applied to:

Harvard
Columbia
UVA
Duke
Vanderbilt
Washington & Lee
William and Mary

I want to clerk in VA or DC after graduation. What are my chances of admission at the t10 schools, and getting scholarships at others? I've looked at myLSN but there isn't an option to see instate vs out-of-state.

Apply more broadly. You say you're "very risk averse financially," so you should absolutely apply to all of the t14 and negotiate scholarships. You're likely leaving money on the table by applying to only the schools you mentioned.

[cavalier1138]

What are your long-term career goals? You'll only spend 1-2 years as a clerk, so what do you actually want to do with your degree?

And yes, you're applying far too narrowly.

[PWADatUNC]

I'm applying to these schools because I want to be in this area for personal reasons (family). Short term goals, private big law in DC/VA area. Long term, state judge in Virginia or federal district in mid-Atlantic, if so lucky. Only applying to Harvard for the long shot, and Columbia for the possibility of money

[cavalier1138]

I'm applying to these schools because I want to be in this area for personal reasons (family). Short term goals, private big law in DC/VA area. Long term, state judge in Virginia or federal district in mid-Atlantic, if so lucky. Only applying to Harvard for the long shot, and Columbia for the possibility of money

Ok, so a lot to unpack from a really short post:

-It's patently absurd to say that you want to be in an area for personal reasons unless it's for two schools that you've arbitrarily picked as having enough prestige to justify not being in the area. If you actually need to stay in VA, you'll be significantly limiting your options. But if you're willing to leave town for Harvard or Columbia, it makes no sense to also not be willing to leave for Chicago, NYU, Michigan, or Northwestern.

-DC is one of the most competitive markets in the country. You have almost no chance at landing DC biglaw from W&M or W&L, and you have a better chance at landing it from NYU than you do from Vanderbilt.

-State and federal judge paths (to the extent that there is a "path" to those jobs) are often very different. Getting those positions is highly unpredictable, so I hope you have a long-term plan that involves something other than sitting on the bench.

-Columbia is not likely to give you a better scholarship offer than any other T13 school, so again, it seems silly to draw your arbitrary line in the sand there.

Short version: ditch W&M and W&L, and apply more broadly across the T13.

[PWADatUNC]

I'm applying to these schools because I want to be in this area for personal reasons (family). Short term goals, private big law in DC/VA area. Long term, state judge in Virginia or federal district in mid-Atlantic, if so lucky. Only applying to Harvard for the long shot, and Columbia for the possibility of money

Ok, so a lot to unpack from a really short post:

-It's patently absurd to say that you want to be in an area for personal reasons unless it's for two schools that you've arbitrarily picked as having enough prestige to justify not being in the area. If you actually need to stay in VA, you'll be significantly limiting your options. But if you're willing to leave town for Harvard or Columbia, it makes no sense to also not be willing to leave for Chicago, NYU, Michigan, or Northwestern.

-DC is one of the most competitive markets in the country. You have almost no chance at landing DC biglaw from W&M or W&L, and you have a better chance at landing it from NYU than you do from Vanderbilt.

-State and federal judge paths (to the extent that there is a "path" to those jobs) are often very different. Getting those positions is highly unpredictable, so I hope you have a long-term plan that involves something other than sitting on the bench.

-Columbia is not likely to give you a better scholarship offer than any other T13 school, so again, it seems silly to draw your arbitrary line in the sand there.

Short version: ditch W&M and W&L, and apply more broadly across the T13.

Thank you for the very candid advice. I've already turned in those applications so I can't very well ditch them. My hope is to use them for leverage against UVA. I expressed interest in staying in VA after law school in my WhyUVA so my hope with them is to show that intent and possibly leverage large scholarships showing I have other respectable options in the state. I've decided to add UPenn, Michigan, and NYU to add some t10 diversity and add to my leverage arsenal, just need to write those optional essays this week now.

I don't know if anyone has experience with it, but just how favorably does UVA look upon in-state students? I spoke to the Dean in DC this summer and she said they don't give direct preference, but a decent chunk of their class is in-state. Do I have a decent shot at admission, possibly money?

[icechicken]

I've decided to add UPenn, Michigan, and NYU to add some t10 diversity and add to my leverage arsenal, just need to write those optional essays this week now.

You really should add Georgetown and Northwestern to that list, at a minimum. Either of those schools with money would be great outcomes given your stated goals (GULC even meets your ostensible geographic needs), and they're ranked highly enough to give you some extra firepower in scholarship negotiations.