Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

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KLK65
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Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

Postby KLK65 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:58 pm

Before you all shout "RETAKE": Yes, I'm aware. Let's say that it's in my best interest to apply this cycle, and the December deadline has obviously passed.

I'm not looking at the top of the top. My stretches are more like Vandy, WUSTL, Iowa. Sweet spot/safeties are big state schools. Am I looking at the right zone? Financial aid is not my top concern.

coolestkidever
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Re: Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

Postby coolestkidever » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:17 pm

RETAKE.

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Mullens
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Re: Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

Postby Mullens » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:17 pm

KLK65 wrote:Before you all shout "RETAKE": Yes, I'm aware. Let's say that it's in my best interest to apply this cycle, and the December deadline has obviously passed.

I'm not looking at the top of the top. My stretches are more like Vandy, WUSTL, Iowa. Sweet spot/safeties are big state schools. Am I looking at the right zone? Financial aid is not my top concern.


The odds of it “being in your best interest” to apply this cycle are very low. Why aren’t you looking at T14 schools with a 3.98? What do you want to do with your law degree.

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zhenders
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Re: Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

Postby zhenders » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:23 pm

Your chances are great. And you'd be a complete fool if you went to a second tier school with your 3.98.

I DO love all of the ways that people interested in getting their bad decisions confirmed try to convince TLS that they have to go to law school RIGHT THIS SECOND BELIEVE ME IT'S IN MY BEST INTEREST MUST GO TO LAW SCHOOL YESTERDAY.

Retake. But you won't. So go wherever you want and enjoy a few decades of wishing you'd taken the time to actually maximize your career prospects and minimize your debt load. You probably know better than everyone anyhow. I mean, what does everyone else have to contribute besides hindsight, the entire range of law schools represented, the entire range of debt loads represented, and a collective multiple centuries' worth of legal practice behind them?

sparkytrainer
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Re: Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

Postby sparkytrainer » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:29 pm

There is no such thing as a reverse splitter, just someone that needs to retake.

cavalier1138
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Re: Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:53 pm

What do you want to do with your JD?

jimmyplayer601
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Re: Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

Postby jimmyplayer601 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:05 pm

Don't listen to the ppl on this website. Last cycle my best friend (ivy grad) had a 164/4.0 and got into UVA, a few other T-14's and NYU/UChicago was the best they did. Another person had the same stats but went to a big state school and got into Northwestern/Michigan. GPA's that high are very rare and schools like them because it increases not only their medians but also 75th percentiles as well. YES take the LSAT again but deff apply everywhere, if you went to an ivy undergrad that should help it is deff a bump even though ppl on here don't like to say it. I've have looked at the average medians of LSAT and GPA from students from my ivy under grad and from Harvard-UCLA the average enrolled LSAT is 2/3 points lower than the average of that school. And with your super stellar GPA you are more than fine to get into at least one top 14. Like even at UPENN!!! (7) you are at the 25th percentile and 75th GPA which makes you a good candidate there! don't over emphasis when your gpa is that good!
Last edited by jimmyplayer601 on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

cavalier1138
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Re: Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:07 pm

jimmyplayer601 wrote:Don't listen to the idiots on this website. Last cycle my best friend (ivy grad) had a 164/4.0 and got into UVA, a few other T-14's and NYU/UChicago was the best they did. Another person had the same stats but went to a big state school and got into Northwestern/Michigan. GPA's that high are very rare and schools like them because it increases not only their medians but also 75th percentiles as well. YES take the LSAT again but deff apply everywhere, if you went to an ivy undergrad that should help it is deff a bump even though ppl on here don't like to say it. I've have looked at the average medians of LSAT and GPA from students from my ivy under grad and from Harvard-UCLA the average enrolled LSAT is 2/3 points lower than the average of that school. And with your super stellar GPA you are more than fine to get into at least one top 14. Like even at UPENN!!! (7) you are at the 25th percentile and 75th GPA which makes you a good candidate there! don't over emphasis when your gpa is that good!


How much money did your friend get? Is the OP an Ivy grad? Should I use more exclamation points in my writing to come across as more believable?

jimmyplayer601
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Re: Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

Postby jimmyplayer601 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:14 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
jimmyplayer601 wrote:Don't listen to the idiots on this website. Last cycle my best friend (ivy grad) had a 164/4.0 and got into UVA, a few other T-14's and NYU/UChicago was the best they did. Another person had the same stats but went to a big state school and got into Northwestern/Michigan. GPA's that high are very rare and schools like them because it increases not only their medians but also 75th percentiles as well. YES take the LSAT again but deff apply everywhere, if you went to an ivy undergrad that should help it is deff a bump even though ppl on here don't like to say it. I've have looked at the average medians of LSAT and GPA from students from my ivy under grad and from Harvard-UCLA the average enrolled LSAT is 2/3 points lower than the average of that school. And with your super stellar GPA you are more than fine to get into at least one top 14. Like even at UPENN!!! (7) you are at the 25th percentile and 75th GPA which makes you a good candidate there! don't over emphasis when your gpa is that good!


How much money did your friend get? Is the OP an Ivy grad? Should I use more exclamation points in my writing to come across as more believable?


Chicago is worth is it at full price even tho they got 10K a year.. maybe if i have over 4000 posts on this site I will come off across as more believable too?

sparkytrainer
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Re: Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

Postby sparkytrainer » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:15 pm

jimmyplayer601 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
jimmyplayer601 wrote:Don't listen to the idiots on this website. Last cycle my best friend (ivy grad) had a 164/4.0 and got into UVA, a few other T-14's and NYU/UChicago was the best they did. Another person had the same stats but went to a big state school and got into Northwestern/Michigan. GPA's that high are very rare and schools like them because it increases not only their medians but also 75th percentiles as well. YES take the LSAT again but deff apply everywhere, if you went to an ivy undergrad that should help it is deff a bump even though ppl on here don't like to say it. I've have looked at the average medians of LSAT and GPA from students from my ivy under grad and from Harvard-UCLA the average enrolled LSAT is 2/3 points lower than the average of that school. And with your super stellar GPA you are more than fine to get into at least one top 14. Like even at UPENN!!! (7) you are at the 25th percentile and 75th GPA which makes you a good candidate there! don't over emphasis when your gpa is that good!


How much money did your friend get? Is the OP an Ivy grad? Should I use more exclamation points in my writing to come across as more believable?


Chicago is worth is it at full price even tho they got 10K a year.. maybe if i have over 4000 posts on this site I will come off across as more believable too?


In no universe is Chicago at full price for the vast majority of people.

cavalier1138
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Re: Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:16 pm

jimmyplayer601 wrote:Chicago is worth is it at full price even tho they got 10K a year.. maybe if i have over 4000 posts on this site I will come off across as more believable too?


Oh, dear.

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UVA2B
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Re: Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

Postby UVA2B » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:19 pm

jimmyplayer601 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
jimmyplayer601 wrote:Don't listen to the idiots on this website. Last cycle my best friend (ivy grad) had a 164/4.0 and got into UVA, a few other T-14's and NYU/UChicago was the best they did. Another person had the same stats but went to a big state school and got into Northwestern/Michigan. GPA's that high are very rare and schools like them because it increases not only their medians but also 75th percentiles as well. YES take the LSAT again but deff apply everywhere, if you went to an ivy undergrad that should help it is deff a bump even though ppl on here don't like to say it. I've have looked at the average medians of LSAT and GPA from students from my ivy under grad and from Harvard-UCLA the average enrolled LSAT is 2/3 points lower than the average of that school. And with your super stellar GPA you are more than fine to get into at least one top 14. Like even at UPENN!!! (7) you are at the 25th percentile and 75th GPA which makes you a good candidate there! don't over emphasis when your gpa is that good!


How much money did your friend get? Is the OP an Ivy grad? Should I use more exclamation points in my writing to come across as more believable?


Chicago is worth is it at full price even tho they got 10K a year.. maybe if i have over 4000 posts on this site I will come off across as more believable too?


In a vacuum, that's at best shaky. Chicago will almost assuredly get someone an outcome that will help pay off that $300k debt, but it's not the best outcome available to this applicant. They could retake for a 170+ and find themselves in the running for the same schools on a full tuition discount scholarship.

But sure, the people around here offering to help complete strangers are just idiots who don't realize how amazing it is to end up at a top school...oh wait.

KLK65
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Re: Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

Postby KLK65 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:22 pm

All right folks, here's the scoop. I want to study IP, more on the copyright or trademark side than the patent side. I have undergrad degrees in a business specialty and an arts specialty, so the JD is an extension of those studies.

I fear that my GPA might be viewed with less weight because I attended a middle-size state school. (I had to; it was one of very few with the major I wanted.) It's the kind where someone from out of state might read the name and say, "Who...?"

I'm certainly not opposed to T14, but I'm trying to find schools that best match with my needs in terms of location, the opportunities I want for education and employment, etc. I'm finding more compelling matches in the 15-50 ranks. But, I'll concede that those schools may have simply worked harder to market the unique traits of their program.

For those who will still demand a retake, what's your recommended course of action? Halt any and all applications for the current cycle? June? February was less than ideal the 1st time around.

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UVA2B
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Re: Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

Postby UVA2B » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:32 pm

Stop for a second and reset. Law school, despite being an academic institution, is not focused on "studying" a particular topic. It's a professional school focused on getting you a job in your chosen profession and area of practice. Given that you want to get into what we call "soft IP (aka non-patent IP)", you are focused on a particular subset of IP that is tough to get in any meaningful capacity if you're not going to big firms and IP firms that focus entirely on all manners of IP. With that in mind, you should be focused on outcomes from the schools you're considering. If you really want to focus your practice on TM and copyright law, then you'll need the credentials that will get you hired by firms that dominate that space. Although it's not a single firm, there is a finite number of firms that do it in ways that will establish you in that practice area.

Your GPA will be taken as it is, so don't worry about the school it came from. You can't control that, so don't worry about it.

As for course of action, you should be solely focused on studying for a retake. Find the methods that work best for you on the LSAT forum, do PT on top of PT on top of PT until you've run through the entire test bank several times, while learning from your mistakes with each pass. Figure out your weaknesses, and fix those weaknesses.

You can go to law school for free at a school that can reasonably put you on the path to working at a firm that does major TM/copyright work, but it's on you to do that. This includes schools you might already be considering (best entertainment law/soft IP locations like UCLA/USC), but instead of full price, you're not paying tuition. Don't underestimate how much that is worth both today and well into your future as you consider your debt obligation following law school.

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Pozzo
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Re: Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

Postby Pozzo » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:53 pm

KLK65 wrote:All right folks, here's the scoop. I want to study IP, more on the copyright or trademark side than the patent side. I have undergrad degrees in a business specialty and an arts specialty, so the JD is an extension of those studies.

I fear that my GPA might be viewed with less weight because I attended a middle-size state school. (I had to; it was one of very few with the major I wanted.) It's the kind where someone from out of state might read the name and say, "Who...?"

I'm certainly not opposed to T14, but I'm trying to find schools that best match with my needs in terms of location, the opportunities I want for education and employment, etc. I'm finding more compelling matches in the 15-50 ranks. But, I'll concede that those schools may have simply worked harder to market the unique traits of their program.

For those who will still demand a retake, what's your recommended course of action? Halt any and all applications for the current cycle? June? February was less than ideal the 1st time around.


I'll try not to pile on with "retake," because I want to correct a couple things in your thought process here. First, pay no mind to the type of school you went to for undergrad. The difference attending a midsize state school will make in admissions is less than negligible. Read the incoming class profiles at any T14; you'll find plenty of schools you've never heard of.

Second, don't pay any attention to "specialty rankings" or whatever other marketing spin a school places on their program. These will make no difference in your chance at a good employment outcome after you graduate. The T14 is poised to offer at least as good of an employment/educational opportunity as anywhere else.

Even if you are tied to a specific locale and want to stay there for school and career, retaking and applying with a higher LSAT will greatly reduce the cost of attending a strong regional both through the initial scholarship offer and your ability to leverage offers/schollies from higher ranked schools to negotiate scholarships across the board.

Law school will always be there. Given the info you've provided, there's no reason not to retake.

cavalier1138
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Re: Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:42 am

KLK65 wrote:I'm certainly not opposed to T14, but I'm trying to find schools that best match with my needs in terms of location, the opportunities I want for education and employment, etc. I'm finding more compelling matches in the 15-50 ranks. But, I'll concede that those schools may have simply worked harder to market the unique traits of their program.


Just to specifically pile on this line of thinking:

Law school isn't undergrad. You will basically get the same education at any school. So you can't go to a school based on some abstract idea of what they specialize in or how academically enriching the program is. You need to focus on employment outcomes.

So again, what do you want to do with your JD? That's not the same thing as what you want to study in school. What kind of job do you want? Where? Private/public sector? What salary do you hope to make?

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Hennessy
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Re: Reverse splitter 163/3.98 - Chances at 2nd tier

Postby Hennessy » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:09 pm

KLK65 wrote:All right folks, here's the scoop. I want to study IP, more on the copyright or trademark side than the patent side. I have undergrad degrees in a business specialty and an arts specialty, so the JD is an extension of those studies.
Soft IP is very niche. You wan't to maximize your chances by going to a top tier school.

I fear that my GPA might be viewed with less weight because I attended a middle-size state school. (I had to; it was one of very few with the major I wanted.) It's the kind where someone from out of state might read the name and say, "Who...?"
It won't.

I'm certainly not opposed to T14, but I'm trying to find schools that best match with my needs in terms of location, the opportunities I want for education and employment, etc. I'm finding more compelling matches in the 15-50 ranks. But, I'll concede that those schools may have simply worked harder to market the unique traits of their program.
Wanna know what's compelling? Being able to say you went to Columbia, NYU or Harvard. http://mylsn.info/ced809/

For those who will still demand a retake, what's your recommended course of action? Halt any and all applications for the current cycle? June? February was less than ideal the 1st time around.
We don't still "demand" anything. TLS does not have some insidious purpose. This isn't for us, this is for your sake.




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