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Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:19 pm
by corporatemandaorbust
3.80 LSAC GPA (US News Top 30, in Economics)
168 LSAT
Three years of financial services experience in NYC
Early Decision
White Male

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:30 pm
by corporatemandaorbust
Before anyone says retake, I have been practice testing around 160 for months, so getting a 168 was probably a fluke that I should be thankful for.

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:32 pm
by cavalier1138
Are you hoping that someone will contradict MyLSN?

Your chances at Columbia are pretty much zero. You need a 170 to have a decent chance at CCN, and a 173+ for money. At the very least, a 170+ will get you very good money at the lower T13.

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:36 pm
by corporatemandaorbust
cavalier1138 wrote:Are you hoping that someone will contradict MyLSN?

Your chances at Columbia are pretty much zero. You need a 170 to have a decent chance at CCN, and a 173+ for money. At the very least, a 170+ will get you very good money at the lower T13.


Isn't the 75th GPA for Columbia at 3.81 and the 25th LSAT at 168. So if I am at 75th for GPA shouldn't a 168 with ED be good enough?

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:39 pm
by cavalier1138
corporatemandaorbust wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Are you hoping that someone will contradict MyLSN?

Your chances at Columbia are pretty much zero. You need a 170 to have a decent chance at CCN, and a 173+ for money. At the very least, a 170+ will get you very good money at the lower T13.


Isn't the 75th GPA for Columbia at 3.81 and the 25th LSAT at 168. So if I am at 75th for GPA shouldn't a 168 with ED be good enough?


Nope. Sorry.

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:18 pm
by Platopus
Image

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:32 pm
by Justtrying2help
Your chances are pretty much zero unless you have other factors that may help you that are not listed. If you did get accepted, it would probably be at sticker. You have a good chance at getting nice scholarship money from the rest of the t-13. You'd probably be a competitive candidate to ED to Northwestern or get 120K+ from similarly ranked schools. You should definitely apply to Columbia anyways.

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:33 pm
by corporatemandaorbust
So without ED, I'd most likely be waitlisted (with a chance of being admitted) and with ED, maybe skew the numbers a bit.

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:37 pm
by corporatemandaorbust
Justtrying2help wrote:Your chances are pretty much zero unless you have other factors that may help you that are not listed. If you did get accepted, it would probably be at sticker. You have a good chance at getting nice scholarship money from the rest of the t-13. You'd probably be a competitive candidate to ED to Northwestern or get 120K+ from similarly ranked schools. You should definitely apply to Columbia anyways.


My Early Decision is with the understanding I would be paying full price.

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:46 pm
by Justtrying2help
Right now your lsat and gpa makes you a cookie cutter Michigan Law level student (3.78 median gpa with 168 lsat), as in you are the typical student that matriculates there. Unless your lsat goes up, you are not a typical Columbia student. The average student who applies to Columbia law has equal or better stats than you and the average applicant to Columbia does not get accepted (roughly 20% of applicants are accepted and obviously even less matriculate). Unless you have crazy softs (national awards or global recognition), urm status, incredible connections, or the best writing sample the Columbia admissions team has seen, your chances are nil. Your stats are great, but Columbia is a world class school. If you want to get in, the best way for you to do that is to somehow get a few more points on the lsat.

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:49 pm
by corporatemandaorbust
Justtrying2help wrote:Right now your lsat and gpa makes you a cookie cutter Michigan Law level student (3.78 median gpa with 168 lsat), as in you are the typical student that matriculates there. Unless your lsat goes up, you are not a typical Columbia student. The average student who applies to Columbia law has equal or better stats than you and the average applicant to Columbia does not get accepted (roughly 20% of applicants are accepted and obviously even less matriculate). Unless you have crazy softs (national awards or global recognition), urm status, incredible connections, or the best writing sample the Columbia admissions team has seen, your chances are nil. Your stats are great, but Columbia is a world class school. If you want to get in, the best way for you to do that is to somehow get a few more points on the lsat.


A 169 would do it? Or with would need to be 170+?

Also, how would that analysis apply to NYU?

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:54 pm
by Justtrying2help
You would most likely be waitlisted but there is virtually no chance that you would ever be accepted off of it. A waitlist of this nature is merely a soft rejection. There are white males at Columbia with your numbers, but they are the children of very important people, highly accomplished on a global or national scale, and/or legacy students. Maybe a couple grew up in extremely adverse circumstances and somehow succeeded and impressed admissions, but thats not the image that you presented in your original post. There are other amazing schools that you can still gain admission to, but your chances are slim with Columbia as currently described.

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:02 pm
by corporatemandaorbust
Justtrying2help wrote:You would most likely be waitlisted but there is virtually no chance that you would ever be accepted off of it. A waitlist of this nature is merely a soft rejection. There are white males at Columbia with your numbers, but they are the children of very important people, highly accomplished on a global or national scale, and/or legacy students. Maybe a couple grew up in extremely adverse circumstances and somehow succeeded and impressed admissions, but thats not the image that you presented in your original post. There are other amazing schools that you can still gain admission to, but your chances are slim with Columbia as currently described.


What about NYU?

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:06 pm
by Justtrying2help
corporatemandaorbust wrote:
Justtrying2help wrote:Right now your lsat and gpa makes you a cookie cutter Michigan Law level student (3.78 median gpa with 168 lsat), as in you are the typical student that matriculates there. Unless your lsat goes up, you are not a typical Columbia student. The average student who applies to Columbia law has equal or better stats than you and the average applicant to Columbia does not get accepted (roughly 20% of applicants are accepted and obviously even less matriculate). Unless you have crazy softs (national awards or global recognition), urm status, incredible connections, or the best writing sample the Columbia admissions team has seen, your chances are nil. Your stats are great, but Columbia is a world class school. If you want to get in, the best way for you to do that is to somehow get a few more points on the lsat.


A 169 would do it? Or with would need to be 170+?

Also, how would that analysis apply to NYU?


The rest of your application must be stellar also, but being above both medians is the best way to gauge your likelihood of getting an acceptance. Students above both medians are generally accepted unless there are other issues with the app or the person appears likely to attend Yale, Harvard, or Stanford anyway. Splitters have a tougher road in admissions with high lsat splitters (174+) being the most desired. For the most recent classes at Columbia, median would mean a 3.7 gpa and a 172 lsat score. Your gpa is high enough already but your lsat is just too low. Think about it this way... How many students do you think have a 3.8 gpa in college? Probably tens of thousands. How many have a 172+ lsat? A hell of a lot fewer. The lsat is the way you stand out when you are applying for admissions into a school the caliber of Columbia.

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:10 pm
by Justtrying2help
corporatemandaorbust wrote:
Justtrying2help wrote:You would most likely be waitlisted but there is virtually no chance that you would ever be accepted off of it. A waitlist of this nature is merely a soft rejection. There are white males at Columbia with your numbers, but they are the children of very important people, highly accomplished on a global or national scale, and/or legacy students. Maybe a couple grew up in extremely adverse circumstances and somehow succeeded and impressed admissions, but thats not the image that you presented in your original post. There are other amazing schools that you can still gain admission to, but your chances are slim with Columbia as currently described.


What about NYU?

NYU has a 3.8 median and a 169 lsat median. If you get 1 more point on the lsat, you are the median student at NYU and would be very competitive for admissions. That is not to say you would be a guarantee to be accepted, but your chances would be really good. As it stands currently, you'd likely be waitlisted but they would probably be more willing than Columbia to grant you admission, especially if you are serious about applying early decision.

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:15 pm
by corporatemandaorbust
Justtrying2help wrote:
corporatemandaorbust wrote:
Justtrying2help wrote:You would most likely be waitlisted but there is virtually no chance that you would ever be accepted off of it. A waitlist of this nature is merely a soft rejection. There are white males at Columbia with your numbers, but they are the children of very important people, highly accomplished on a global or national scale, and/or legacy students. Maybe a couple grew up in extremely adverse circumstances and somehow succeeded and impressed admissions, but thats not the image that you presented in your original post. There are other amazing schools that you can still gain admission to, but your chances are slim with Columbia as currently described.


What about NYU?

NYU has a 3.8 median and a 169 lsat median. If you get 1 more point on the lsat, you are the median student at NYU and would be very competitive for admissions. That is not to say you would be a guarantee to be accepted, but your chances would be really good. As it stands currently, you'd likely be waitlisted but they would probably be more willing than Columbia to grant you admission, especially if you are serious about applying early decision.


I thought ED is a negative for NYU, but "neutral" for Columbia?

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:33 pm
by corporatemandaorbust
Justtrying2help wrote:Right now your lsat and gpa makes you a cookie cutter Michigan Law level student (3.78 median gpa with 168 lsat), as in you are the typical student that matriculates there. Unless your lsat goes up, you are not a typical Columbia student. The average student who applies to Columbia law has equal or better stats than you and the average applicant to Columbia does not get accepted (roughly 20% of applicants are accepted and obviously even less matriculate). Unless you have crazy softs (national awards or global recognition), urm status, incredible connections, or the best writing sample the Columbia admissions team has seen, your chances are nil. Your stats are great, but Columbia is a world class school. If you want to get in, the best way for you to do that is to somehow get a few more points on the lsat.


I guess the only other soft I'll have is a top 15 MBA with a 3.8 GPA

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:35 pm
by Justtrying2help
The typical student who applies ED to a school like NYU, is one similar to yourself. A white male with either above average financial means or financial goals, with slightly below median lsat scores, and who really wants to (or has to) be in New York. At the moment, you are not competitive for Columbia. However, you are borderline competitive for NYU (possibly even more so this year because average lsat scores have been dropping for years). Your story would not be uncommon for NYU. There will be others lining up to take the same opportunity that you wish to enjoy. This allows NYU to be selective and pick the ED students that they think will help the NYU brand the most. Based on the lsat scores, more students are competitive for NYU than are for Columbia. This creates the competition and the negative correlation to ED that you speak of. Outside of Northwestern and schools with similar scholarship programs, most students apply to a school ED because they either do not have the academic merit necessary to be accepted without it or they "must" attend that school. The less scholarship money the school has to award to get quality talent, the better it is for them to attract the students they truly need to maintain their numbers. For your sake, I hope NYU's median lsat drops 1 point to a 168 so that you can get in and not have to worry about the burden of retaking. Even without ED, you still have a chance at NYU. Your chances of acceptance are just far from assured.

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:38 pm
by corporatemandaorbust
Justtrying2help wrote:The typical student who applies ED to a school like NYU, is one similar to yourself. A white male with either above average financial means or financial goals, with slightly below median lsat scores, and who really wants to (or has to) be in New York. At the moment, you are not competitive for Columbia. However, you are borderline competitive for NYU (possibly even more so this year because average lsat scores have been dropping for years). Your story would not be uncommon for NYU. There will be others lining up to take the same opportunity that you wish to enjoy. This allows NYU to be selective and pick the ED students that they think will help the NYU brand the most. Based on the lsat scores, more students are competitive for NYU than are for Columbia. This creates the competition and the negative correlation to ED that you speak of. Outside of Northwestern and schools with similar scholarship programs, most students apply to a school ED because they either do not have the academic merit necessary to be accepted without it or they "must" attend that school. The less scholarship money the school has to award to get quality talent, the better it is for them to attract the students they truly need to maintain their numbers. For your sake, I hope NYU's median lsat drops 1 point to a 168 so that you can get in and not have to worry about the burden of retaking. Even without ED, you still have a chance at NYU. Your chances of acceptance are just far from assured.


Ok. If I retook, would these schools only consider my highest score?

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:41 pm
by Justtrying2help
Having a graduate degree (even if the grades are good) does not tend to affect your admissions chances to law school.

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:44 pm
by Justtrying2help
corporatemandaorbust wrote:
Justtrying2help wrote:The typical student who applies ED to a school like NYU, is one similar to yourself. A white male with either above average financial means or financial goals, with slightly below median lsat scores, and who really wants to (or has to) be in New York. At the moment, you are not competitive for Columbia. However, you are borderline competitive for NYU (possibly even more so this year because average lsat scores have been dropping for years). Your story would not be uncommon for NYU. There will be others lining up to take the same opportunity that you wish to enjoy. This allows NYU to be selective and pick the ED students that they think will help the NYU brand the most. Based on the lsat scores, more students are competitive for NYU than are for Columbia. This creates the competition and the negative correlation to ED that you speak of. Outside of Northwestern and schools with similar scholarship programs, most students apply to a school ED because they either do not have the academic merit necessary to be accepted without it or they "must" attend that school. The less scholarship money the school has to award to get quality talent, the better it is for them to attract the students they truly need to maintain their numbers. For your sake, I hope NYU's median lsat drops 1 point to a 168 so that you can get in and not have to worry about the burden of retaking. Even without ED, you still have a chance at NYU. Your chances of acceptance are just far from assured.


Ok. If I retook, would these schools only consider my highest score?


I think Yale is the only school that truly cares and considers all of your scores, but most schools only consider your highest score. Hopefully someone with more knowledge about how it pertains to Columbia and NYU will comment.

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:56 pm
by 01panm
Justtrying2help wrote:
corporatemandaorbust wrote:
Justtrying2help wrote:The typical student who applies ED to a school like NYU, is one similar to yourself. A white male with either above average financial means or financial goals, with slightly below median lsat scores, and who really wants to (or has to) be in New York. At the moment, you are not competitive for Columbia. However, you are borderline competitive for NYU (possibly even more so this year because average lsat scores have been dropping for years). Your story would not be uncommon for NYU. There will be others lining up to take the same opportunity that you wish to enjoy. This allows NYU to be selective and pick the ED students that they think will help the NYU brand the most. Based on the lsat scores, more students are competitive for NYU than are for Columbia. This creates the competition and the negative correlation to ED that you speak of. Outside of Northwestern and schools with similar scholarship programs, most students apply to a school ED because they either do not have the academic merit necessary to be accepted without it or they "must" attend that school. The less scholarship money the school has to award to get quality talent, the better it is for them to attract the students they truly need to maintain their numbers. For your sake, I hope NYU's median lsat drops 1 point to a 168 so that you can get in and not have to worry about the burden of retaking. Even without ED, you still have a chance at NYU. Your chances of acceptance are just far from assured.


Ok. If I retook, would these schools only consider my highest score?


I think Yale is the only school that truly cares and considers all of your scores, but most schools only consider your highest score. Hopefully someone with more knowledge about how it pertains to Columbia and NYU will comment.


Yes, Columbia/NYU are only going to look at your highest score.

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:58 pm
by chargers21
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Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:44 pm
by corporatemandaorbust
I'm going to retake. What is the maximum number of retakes I can do before next admissions cycle (Fall 2018)?

Re: Chance Me for Columbia

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:49 pm
by Gordon_Cole
corporatemandaorbust wrote:I'm going to retake. What is the maximum number of retakes I can do before next admissions cycle (Fall 2018)?


Why do you want to do law school with an MBA?