3.5/177 - best scholarship options?

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Hstrat
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3.5/177 - best scholarship options?

Postby Hstrat » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:57 pm

Non-URM, I'll be one year removed from UG. I think I've got a good sense of how my acceptances will play out, but ultimately that won't be the deciding factor in where I go. What is likely to be the best school/range of schools to give me a full ride? Half ride? Any money at all? Thanks for your help!

eck456
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Re: 3.5/177 - best scholarship options?

Postby eck456 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:27 pm

Hstrat wrote:Non-URM, I'll be one year removed from UG. I think I've got a good sense of how my acceptances will play out, but ultimately that won't be the deciding factor in where I go. What is likely to be the best school/range of schools to give me a full ride? Half ride? Any money at all? Thanks for your help!


Could be worth an NU ED? I believe under that process you'd be guaranteed a full ride if you're accepted but it's a binding early app, so you'd have to be committed

Hstrat
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Re: 3.5/177 - best scholarship options?

Postby Hstrat » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:40 pm

Hstrat wrote:Non-URM, I'll be one year removed from UG. I think I've got a good sense of how my acceptances will play out, but ultimately that won't be the deciding factor in where I go. What is likely to be the best school/range of schools to give me a full ride? Half ride? Any money at all? Thanks for your help!


I'd consider it, but honestly between a full ride at NU and a half ride at UVA, I'd probably choose UVA; I'm not sure how likely that outcome is though.

cavalier1138
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Re: 3.5/177 - best scholarship options?

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:10 pm

Hstrat wrote:...between a full ride at NU and a half ride at UVA, I'd probably choose UVA...


Why?

LawTweet
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Re: 3.5/177 - best scholarship options?

Postby LawTweet » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:49 pm

Hstrat wrote:
Hstrat wrote:Non-URM, I'll be one year removed from UG. I think I've got a good sense of how my acceptances will play out, but ultimately that won't be the deciding factor in where I go. What is likely to be the best school/range of schools to give me a full ride? Half ride? Any money at all? Thanks for your help!


I'd consider it, but honestly between a full ride at NU and a half ride at UVA, I'd probably choose UVA; I'm not sure how likely that outcome is though.


That seems pretty illogical but I'd be curious to hear your reasoning.

RedPurpleBlue
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Re: 3.5/177 - best scholarship options?

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:22 am

LawTweet wrote:
Hstrat wrote:
I'd consider it, but honestly between a full ride at NU and a half ride at UVA, I'd probably choose UVA; I'm not sure how likely that outcome is though.


That seems pretty illogical but I'd be curious to hear your reasoning.


There is no good reason to take a 1/2 ride at UVA over a full ride at NU. The employment outcomes are pretty much identical, and self-selection probably explains 90%+ of any variance that exists. NU has more JD Advantage jobs, because they have a ~10% JD/MBA cohort; meanwhile, UVA doesn't. UVA has more students clerking, because it's notoriously a school people choose if they are interested in clerking down the road; whereas, NU is notoriously for transactional-leaning students. Both have similar numbers in biglaw, gov't/PI, and underemployed/unemployed. So, if someone wants to pay an extra $90,000 + interest/disbursement fees for 1-2% better employment security and to be with others who share similar self-selection parameters, then he can go for it, but it's not remotely logical.

eck456
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Re: 3.5/177 - best scholarship options?

Postby eck456 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:06 am

RedPurpleBlue wrote:
LawTweet wrote:
Hstrat wrote:
I'd consider it, but honestly between a full ride at NU and a half ride at UVA, I'd probably choose UVA; I'm not sure how likely that outcome is though.


That seems pretty illogical but I'd be curious to hear your reasoning.


There is no good reason to take a 1/2 ride at UVA over a full ride at NU. The employment outcomes are pretty much identical, and self-selection probably explains 90%+ of any variance that exists. NU has more JD Advantage jobs, because they have a ~10% JD/MBA cohort; meanwhile, UVA doesn't. UVA has more students clerking, because it's notoriously a school people choose if they are interested in clerking down the road; whereas, NU is notoriously for transactional-leaning students. Both have similar numbers in biglaw, gov't/PI, and underemployed/unemployed. So, if someone wants to pay an extra $90,000 + interest/disbursement fees for 1-2% better employment security and to be with others who share similar self-selection parameters, then he can go for it, but it's not remotely logical.


Also there's definitely a cultural and lifestyle difference in the two schools (as well as COL, though with a half ride in Chi v full ride in VA that becomes less important). I didn't even apply to UVA because a weekend in Charlottesville for a wedding was more than enough - objectively I'm sure people feel that way about living in the Loop in Chicago, and wouldn't apply to NU for the same reasons. But if lifestyle preference and location are neutral to you I still think NU ed is one of the best deals around (tho I went there undergrad so am obviously biased haha) and if finances were the primary/ sole factor I would say it's hard to beat

RedPurpleBlue
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Re: 3.5/177 - best scholarship options?

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:38 am

eck456 wrote:
RedPurpleBlue wrote:
LawTweet wrote:
Hstrat wrote:
I'd consider it, but honestly between a full ride at NU and a half ride at UVA, I'd probably choose UVA; I'm not sure how likely that outcome is though.


That seems pretty illogical but I'd be curious to hear your reasoning.


There is no good reason to take a 1/2 ride at UVA over a full ride at NU. The employment outcomes are pretty much identical, and self-selection probably explains 90%+ of any variance that exists. NU has more JD Advantage jobs, because they have a ~10% JD/MBA cohort; meanwhile, UVA doesn't. UVA has more students clerking, because it's notoriously a school people choose if they are interested in clerking down the road; whereas, NU is notoriously for transactional-leaning students. Both have similar numbers in biglaw, gov't/PI, and underemployed/unemployed. So, if someone wants to pay an extra $90,000 + interest/disbursement fees for 1-2% better employment security and to be with others who share similar self-selection parameters, then he can go for it, but it's not remotely logical.


Also there's definitely a cultural and lifestyle difference in the two schools (as well as COL, though with a half ride in Chi v full ride in VA that becomes less important). I didn't even apply to UVA because a weekend in Charlottesville for a wedding was more than enough - objectively I'm sure people feel that way about living in the Loop in Chicago, and wouldn't apply to NU for the same reasons. But if lifestyle preference and location are neutral to you I still think NU ed is one of the best deals around (tho I went there undergrad so am obviously biased haha) and if finances were the primary/ sole factor I would say it's hard to beat


I hope this doesn't come off as rude, but, imo, I think making a $90,000+ lifestyle choice is pretty much a terrible idea. Sometimes you have to move to places you really don't want to in order to advance your professional career. Regardless, none of the T13/14 are really in that undesirable locations. If you want to be a lawyer, you should go to a school that has the best balance of employment outcomes to cost for you. Those should make up 95%+ of the equation. I'd take a full scholarship at any T13 over a 1/2 scholarship at another T13, but maybe I'm too debt-adverse and lack ambition :lol:

Disclaimer: I also did my UG at NU and am now going to NU Law with a nice scholly

Hstrat
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Re: 3.5/177 - best scholarship options?

Postby Hstrat » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:49 am

RedPurpleBlue wrote:
LawTweet wrote:
Hstrat wrote:
I'd consider it, but honestly between a full ride at NU and a half ride at UVA, I'd probably choose UVA; I'm not sure how likely that outcome is though.


That seems pretty illogical but I'd be curious to hear your reasoning.


There is no good reason to take a 1/2 ride at UVA over a full ride at NU. The employment outcomes are pretty much identical, and self-selection probably explains 90%+ of any variance that exists. NU has more JD Advantage jobs, because they have a ~10% JD/MBA cohort; meanwhile, UVA doesn't. UVA has more students clerking, because it's notoriously a school people choose if they are interested in clerking down the road; whereas, NU is notoriously for transactional-leaning students. Both have similar numbers in biglaw, gov't/PI, and underemployed/unemployed. So, if someone wants to pay an extra $90,000 + interest/disbursement fees for 1-2% better employment security and to be with others who share similar self-selection parameters, then he can go for it, but it's not remotely logical.


A few reasons.
Location: I love Virginia/being reasonably close to DC, not a huge fan of Chicago
Longer term plans: I'm planning on settling down in the Mid-Atlantic after law school.
Opportunity cost: My wife has career opportunities in Virginia that she does not have in Chicago, which would offset a decent chunk of the cost difference, and those career opportunities could lead to a much bigger difference in her earnings down the road. Obviously, this is the big one - I'd overlook the other factors if this one wasn't in the picture.

Really though, I appreciate the advice to ED at NU; a half ride at UVA is no guarantee, and in the process I could lose out on a potential full ride to a law school with nearly identical long term employment options. I'm considering that option. Still looking for more info on other likely scholarships though.

Hstrat
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Re: 3.5/177 - best scholarship options?

Postby Hstrat » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:57 am

RedPurpleBlue wrote:Disclaimer: I also did my UG at NU and am now going to NU Law with a nice scholly


Could I ask about your stats/scholly? NU is near the top of my list for schools I'd like to attend, and I'm still considering that ED option.

Alive97
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Re: 3.5/177 - best scholarship options?

Postby Alive97 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:12 pm

Looks like your ED chances at NU are good, although this is a small sample size.

Image

Aside from that it looks like Michigan, Cornell, UVA and UT.

Image


Notice how your range fits Columbia and NYU well but UVA has a lot of waitlists. Probably yield protect from UVA. May want to make it abundantly clear to UVA that you have a particular interest in that school.

RedPurpleBlue
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Re: 3.5/177 - best scholarship options?

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:16 pm

Hstrat wrote:
Opportunity cost: My wife has career opportunities in Virginia that she does not have in Chicago, which would offset a decent chunk of the cost difference, and those career opportunities could lead to a much bigger difference in her earnings down the road. Obviously, this is the big one - I'd overlook the other factors if this one wasn't in the picture.



IMO, this is some important context. From your OP, I thought you were making a decision for one. Could you expand on what sort of career opportunities she could get near/around Charlottesville but not in Chicago? I'm a bit stumped there. Regardless, assuming you're correct (probably are), Virginia goes from completely indefensible to very defensible if your wife's income drastically decreases the COA different, and she simultaneously gets to advance her career.

I'll PM you later today w/r/t my scholly/stats at NU.

Alive97
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Re: 3.5/177 - best scholarship options?

Postby Alive97 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:25 pm

This forum has a strong bias towards moving wherever in the country maximizes your money outcomes - but the question is whether you will be fine in the long term money-wise either way.

Hstrat
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Re: 3.5/177 - best scholarship options?

Postby Hstrat » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:52 pm

RedPurpleBlue wrote:
Hstrat wrote:
Opportunity cost: My wife has career opportunities in Virginia that she does not have in Chicago, which would offset a decent chunk of the cost difference, and those career opportunities could lead to a much bigger difference in her earnings down the road. Obviously, this is the big one - I'd overlook the other factors if this one wasn't in the picture.



IMO, this is some important context. From your OP, I thought you were making a decision for one. Could you expand on what sort of career opportunities she could get near/around Charlottesville but not in Chicago? I'm a bit stumped there. Regardless, assuming you're correct (probably are), Virginia goes from completely indefensible to very defensible if your wife's income drastically decreases the COA different, and she simultaneously gets to advance her career.

I'll PM you later today w/r/t my scholly/stats at NU.



I've already gotten a little more specific about my circumstances than I do typically on a forum like this. The probable difference in her income over the three years is not gigantic - not the full $90,000 - but close enough, and with enough long term implications, that I think the decision is justifiable. That said, I'm not convinced either way yet.

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chargers21
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Re: 3.5/177 - best scholarship options?

Postby chargers21 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:20 pm

The NU scholly is actually shy of a full ride, 150k versus tuition of 180k+. Still a lot of money, but just wanted to point that out. I think it's your best option at getting a relatively cheap, great education. Harvard might also make financial sense depending on your situation, but that depends on your current finances. Also, where do you want to work post graduation, and what type of job? UVA might help your SO right now, but is it going to matter much if you were planning on moving to NYC in 3 years anyway? Just something to think about

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Delano
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Re: 3.5/177 - best scholarship options?

Postby Delano » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:55 pm

As far as the hypothetical NU 150k vs. UVA half-ride debate goes, just wanted to point out that it's not uncommon for people with your numbers to get 120-135k from UVA. See, for instance - http://lawschoolnumbers.com/CalSplitter13 , http://lawschoolnumbers.com/bsb2011
Also, 90k (half-ride) is a not a common amount to receive from UVA - they tend to give six figures or stiff you, not much in between.

All that is to say, if you're not fond of NU or really like / have incentive to go to MVD, I think it's worth applying without the ED as you have reasonable odds at 120-150k with a solid application and perhaps some negotiating. Personal considerations and preferences (and things like SO's career) may justify a cost difference of that size.




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