3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

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Petebateman
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3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby Petebateman » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:08 pm

Where do I apply early action to maximize school and scholarship?

cavalier1138
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:52 pm

Petebateman wrote:Where do I apply early action to maximize school and scholarship?


If you want to maximize your chances and scholarships, you don't apply early (unless the school offers a guaranteed full ride with ED acceptance).

What are your career goals? That has a big effect on your chances and how much money you can expect with your current numbers.

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ScroogeMcDuck
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby ScroogeMcDuck » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:03 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Petebateman wrote:Where do I apply early action to maximize school and scholarship?


If you want to maximize your chances and scholarships, you don't apply early (unless the school offers a guaranteed full ride with ED acceptance).

What are your career goals? That has a big effect on your chances and how much money you can expect with your current numbers.

Good points, I would agree. Assuming goal is biglaw, Iwould say you should be in at some of lower top 14 and maybe one mid/ upper top 14 due to experience. I would say sticker though except maybe a little money at cornell Georgetown.

Petebateman
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby Petebateman » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:05 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Petebateman wrote:Where do I apply early action to maximize school and scholarship?


If you want to maximize your chances and scholarships, you don't apply early (unless the school offers a guaranteed full ride with ED acceptance).

What are your career goals? That has a big effect on your chances and how much money you can expect with your current numbers.

Career goal is big law. I'm also asking what's the best programs I have a shot at, even if for sticker. Where would EA help me most? I appreciate the response bro.

Petebateman
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby Petebateman » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:06 pm

ScroogeMcDuck wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Petebateman wrote:Where do I apply early action to maximize school and scholarship?


If you want to maximize your chances and scholarships, you don't apply early (unless the school offers a guaranteed full ride with ED acceptance).

What are your career goals? That has a big effect on your chances and how much money you can expect with your current numbers.

Good points, I would agree. Assuming goal is biglaw, Iwould say you should be in at some of lower top 14 and maybe one mid/ upper top 14 due to experience. I would say sticker though except maybe a little money at cornell Georgetown.


Thank you for response, I was hoping for a little money at Cornell/Georgetown

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Mullens
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby Mullens » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:11 pm

Petebateman wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Petebateman wrote:Where do I apply early action to maximize school and scholarship?


If you want to maximize your chances and scholarships, you don't apply early (unless the school offers a guaranteed full ride with ED acceptance).

What are your career goals? That has a big effect on your chances and how much money you can expect with your current numbers.

Career goal is big law. I'm also asking what's the best programs I have a shot at, even if for sticker. Where would EA help me most? I appreciate the response bro.


Applying to law school is different than undergrad. Early Action is not a thing at any school I am aware of. Many schools have binding Early Decision programs, but it is a bad idea at most schools because it means you're going to be paying full sticker price ($300,000+) with maybe only a marginal impact on your admissions chances. This blog has some information on schools' relative ED boosts.

The only T14 school that provides a scholarship with Early Decision is Northwestern and you get a $150,000 scholarship if admitted ED. You're unlikely to get in ED at Northwestern though because your LSAT is below median.

cavalier1138
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:48 pm

Yeah, no such thing as a non-binding Early Decision program at any of the schools you should be looking at.

If you want biglaw, your numbers are just shy of where you want them. You should be targeting the T13, which means bumping your LSAT up (even 1-2 points). You have a coin-flip chance at most of the lower T13, but a couple of extra points will give you some money there.

Petebateman
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby Petebateman » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:06 pm

Mullens wrote:
Petebateman wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Petebateman wrote:Where do I apply early action to maximize school and scholarship?


If you want to maximize your chances and scholarships, you don't apply early (unless the school offers a guaranteed full ride with ED acceptance).

What are your career goals? That has a big effect on your chances and how much money you can expect with your current numbers.

Career goal is big law. I'm also asking what's the best programs I have a shot at, even if for sticker. Where would EA help me most? I appreciate the response bro.


Applying to law school is different than undergrad. Early Action is not a thing at any school I am aware of. Many schools have binding Early Decision programs, but it is a bad idea at most schools because it means you're going to be paying full sticker price ($300,000+) with maybe only a marginal impact on your admissions chances. This blog has some information on schools' relative ED boosts.

The only T14 school that provides a scholarship with Early Decision is Northwestern and you get a $150,000 scholarship if admitted ED. You're unlikely to get in ED at Northwestern though because your LSAT is below median.

Okay, thanks for response. Do you think I have a chance at a little money at Northwestern? I've been reading they look for experienced applicants. What about some money at Cornell and Georgetown?

Petebateman
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby Petebateman » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:08 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:Yeah, no such thing as a non-binding Early Decision program at any of the schools you should be looking at.

If you want biglaw, your numbers are just shy of where you want them. You should be targeting the T13, which means bumping your LSAT up (even 1-2 points). You have a coin-flip chance at most of the lower T13, but a couple of extra points will give you some money there.

Unfortunately, retake is not an option. If you had to guess, which top 14s would you say I get into? My buddy who I worked with had essentially same stats and was in at Michigan for what it's worth. I appreciate your help bro

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waldorf
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby waldorf » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:09 pm

Petebateman wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Yeah, no such thing as a non-binding Early Decision program at any of the schools you should be looking at.

If you want biglaw, your numbers are just shy of where you want them. You should be targeting the T13, which means bumping your LSAT up (even 1-2 points). You have a coin-flip chance at most of the lower T13, but a couple of extra points will give you some money there.

Unfortunately, retake is not an option. If you had to guess, which top 14s would you say I get into? My buddy who I worked with had essentially same stats and was in at Michigan for what it's worth. I appreciate your help bro


Why isn't retaking an option? There's plenty of time to still take and apply this upcoming cycle, and the 3 takes in 2 years rule is gone.

How will you be financing law school? All with loans? Any familial support from parents, spouse, etc. or substantial savings?

cavalier1138
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:12 pm

Retaking is always an option.

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ScroogeMcDuck
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby ScroogeMcDuck » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:12 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:Yeah, no such thing as a non-binding Early Decision program at any of the schools you should be looking at.

If you want biglaw, your numbers are just shy of where you want them. You should be targeting the T13, which means bumping your LSAT up (even 1-2 points). You have a coin-flip chance at most of the lower T13, but a couple of extra points will give you some money there.

I think OP will be in at Cornell and Georgetown. I would also say northwestern with his Work experience. I would say sticker price for all except a small amount at Cornell. My buddy got into NW with pretty much same stats and applied later in cycle. He goes there at sticker now

Petebateman
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby Petebateman » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:14 pm

bwaldorf wrote:
Petebateman wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Yeah, no such thing as a non-binding Early Decision program at any of the schools you should be looking at.

If you want biglaw, your numbers are just shy of where you want them. You should be targeting the T13, which means bumping your LSAT up (even 1-2 points). You have a coin-flip chance at most of the lower T13, but a couple of extra points will give you some money there.

Unfortunately, retake is not an option. If you had to guess, which top 14s would you say I get into? My buddy who I worked with had essentially same stats and was in at Michigan for what it's worth. I appreciate your help bro


Why isn't retaking an option? There's plenty of time to still take and apply this upcoming cycle, and the 3 takes in 2 years rule is gone.

How will you be financing law school? All with loans? Any familial support from parents, spouse, etc. or substantial savings?

I took it twice and got same score after studying an additional few months lol also now I'm working 65 hours plus per week. I'm fortunate though as I've been living at home for past few years saving most of my money.

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ScroogeMcDuck
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby ScroogeMcDuck » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:19 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:Retaking is always an option.

Although retake is always an easy response, it's not exactly a walk in the park to retake the lsat. I know people who have went down substantially due to a weird game or a tough reading comp passage. OP has a score in 95? Percentile on the exam. 99? Percent of society would view retaking as laughable . Go cavs tho

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Platopus
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby Platopus » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:27 pm

ScroogeMcDuck wrote: 99? Percent of society would view retaking as laughable .


This is largely irrelevant. If OP wants anything but an outside chance at some minor $ at the bottom of the T-14, he/she is going to need to retake. As it is, OP has a decent shot at the lower half of the t-14, but it's going to be expensive.

Petebateman
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby Petebateman » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:28 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:Retaking is always an option.

Yea man, I took it twice and got identical score after months of extra studying lol I also started a diff job recently and I'm putting in 65 hours per week so I could see myself going down next take. Would you be able to tell me where you think I'd be in in the top 14? I appreciate your help

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Platopus
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby Platopus » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:36 pm

Petebateman wrote:Yea man, I took it twice and got identical score after months of extra studying lol I also started a diff job recently and I'm putting in 65 hours per week so I could see myself going down next take. Would you be able to tell me where you think I'd be in in the top 14? I appreciate your help


Top half of the T-13 isn't looking too hot, even with an early application. ED likely won't help either.

Here's how things look now:
Image

edit: For shits and gigs, here's what a 169 would look like:
Image
Last edited by Platopus on Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ScroogeMcDuck
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby ScroogeMcDuck » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:38 pm

Platopus wrote:
ScroogeMcDuck wrote: 99? Percent of society would view retaking as laughable .


This is largely irrelevant. If OP wants anything but an outside chance at some minor $ at the bottom of the T-14, he/she is going to need to retake. As it is, OP has a decent shot at the lower half of the t-14, but it's going to be expensive.

I'm just sayin', give the dude some credit. This forum is so crazy when it comes to lsat scores. I'm just tired of seeing the automatic retake response

cavalier1138
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:39 pm

ScroogeMcDuck wrote:
Platopus wrote:
ScroogeMcDuck wrote: 99? Percent of society would view retaking as laughable .


This is largely irrelevant. If OP wants anything but an outside chance at some minor $ at the bottom of the T-14, he/she is going to need to retake. As it is, OP has a decent shot at the lower half of the t-14, but it's going to be expensive.

I'm just sayin', give the dude some credit. This forum is so crazy when it comes to lsat scores. I'm just tired of seeing the automatic retake response


It's not automatic. It's the response when someone has goals that don't match with their current options. OP wants biglaw; a retake is the right choice.

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Platopus
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby Platopus » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:41 pm

ScroogeMcDuck wrote:
Platopus wrote:
ScroogeMcDuck wrote: 99? Percent of society would view retaking as laughable .


This is largely irrelevant. If OP wants anything but an outside chance at some minor $ at the bottom of the T-14, he/she is going to need to retake. As it is, OP has a decent shot at the lower half of the t-14, but it's going to be expensive.

I'm just sayin', give the dude some credit. This forum is so crazy when it comes to lsat scores. I'm just tired of seeing the automatic retake response


Not hating on the 167, I'm just being realistic. 2 point in his/her range will have a big impact, and OP specifically wants Biglaw which means he/she really doesn't have much of a choice but to go to a T-14. The bottom of the T-14 at sticker is not a situation I'd like to find myself. OP doesn't have to apply this year, and just 2 extra points would open a number of doors that are shut right now.

grades??
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby grades?? » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:44 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
ScroogeMcDuck wrote:
Platopus wrote:
ScroogeMcDuck wrote: 99? Percent of society would view retaking as laughable .


This is largely irrelevant. If OP wants anything but an outside chance at some minor $ at the bottom of the T-14, he/she is going to need to retake. As it is, OP has a decent shot at the lower half of the t-14, but it's going to be expensive.

I'm just sayin', give the dude some credit. This forum is so crazy when it comes to lsat scores. I'm just tired of seeing the automatic retake response


It's not automatic. It's the response when someone has goals that don't match with their current options. OP wants biglaw; a retake is the right choice.


Agreed. Scrooge, it matters what OP goals are. OP wants t13 with money. His numbers dont give him any chance at money. If OP's goals are t13 with some money, he needs to retake. 3 more points makes that achievable at NW and Cornell.

Also, retake is always an option OP. I was in grad school and working full time while studying for a retake. Work and grad school went from 7 am until 7 pm each day. I would make dinner, then study from 8-11 pm every night. Review in the morning. It changed my life. I went from t13 waitlists to having UVA/Duke paying for my legal education because of a few more points on a stupid test. There is no excuse to not retaking other than laziness. Thats on you OP.

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ScroogeMcDuck
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby ScroogeMcDuck » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Platopus wrote:
ScroogeMcDuck wrote:
Platopus wrote:
ScroogeMcDuck wrote: 99? Percent of society would view retaking as laughable .


This is largely irrelevant. If OP wants anything but an outside chance at some minor $ at the bottom of the T-14, he/she is going to need to retake. As it is, OP has a decent shot at the lower half of the t-14, but it's going to be expensive.

I'm just sayin', give the dude some credit. This forum is so crazy when it comes to lsat scores. I'm just tired of seeing the automatic retake response


Not hating on the 167, I'm just being realistic. 2 point in his/her range will have a big impact, and OP specifically wants Biglaw which means he/she really doesn't have much of a choice but to go to a T-14. The bottom of the T-14 at sticker is not a situation I'd like to find myself. OP doesn't have to apply this year, and just 2 extra points would open a number of doors that are shut right now.

Also want to add for OP, although top 14 is best bet. A good tier 1 in your target market could allow you to get big law job. Just make sure you are in top third or so of your class. I work in Boston and see a ton of BC guys at big law. Obvi top 14 is preferable but a good tier 1 can also get you big law.

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ScroogeMcDuck
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby ScroogeMcDuck » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:26 pm

Platopus wrote:
ScroogeMcDuck wrote:
Platopus wrote:
ScroogeMcDuck wrote: 99? Percent of society would view retaking as laughable .


This is largely irrelevant. If OP wants anything but an outside chance at some minor $ at the bottom of the T-14, he/she is going to need to retake. As it is, OP has a decent shot at the lower half of the t-14, but it's going to be expensive.

I'm just sayin', give the dude some credit. This forum is so crazy when it comes to lsat scores. I'm just tired of seeing the automatic retake response


Not hating on the 167, I'm just being realistic. 2 point in his/her range will have a big impact, and OP specifically wants Biglaw which means he/she really doesn't have much of a choice but to go to a T-14. The bottom of the T-14 at sticker is not a situation I'd like to find myself. OP doesn't have to apply this year, and just 2 extra points would open a number of doors that are shut right now.

Also want to add for OP, although top 14 is best bet. A good tier 1 in your target market could allow you to get big law job. Just make sure you are in top third or so of your class. I work in Boston and see a ton of BC guys at big law. Obvi top 14 is preferable but a good tier 1 can also get you big law.

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UVA2B
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby UVA2B » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:34 pm

ScroogeMcDuck wrote:
Platopus wrote:
ScroogeMcDuck wrote:
Platopus wrote:
ScroogeMcDuck wrote: 99? Percent of society would view retaking as laughable .


This is largely irrelevant. If OP wants anything but an outside chance at some minor $ at the bottom of the T-14, he/she is going to need to retake. As it is, OP has a decent shot at the lower half of the t-14, but it's going to be expensive.

I'm just sayin', give the dude some credit. This forum is so crazy when it comes to lsat scores. I'm just tired of seeing the automatic retake response


Not hating on the 167, I'm just being realistic. 2 point in his/her range will have a big impact, and OP specifically wants Biglaw which means he/she really doesn't have much of a choice but to go to a T-14. The bottom of the T-14 at sticker is not a situation I'd like to find myself. OP doesn't have to apply this year, and just 2 extra points would open a number of doors that are shut right now.

Also want to add for OP, although top 14 is best bet. A good tier 1 in your target market could allow you to get big law job. Just make sure you are in top third or so of your class. I work in Boston and see a ton of BC guys at big law. Obvi top 14 is preferable but a good tier 1 can also get you big law.


What's the magic sauce to "making sure you are in top third?" You can't plan on that, and it's foolish to suggest it. Plenty of BU/BC end up with desirable big law outcomes, but if big law is all you want, you're talking about a coin flip chance of it at either of them, and you have surprisingly little control over making sure that coin flip is in your favor.

OP, you might get a T13 with those numbers, but you're making a mistake to pay the price you'd have to pay for it. What you should strive to do, if big law is truly your goal following graduation, is to improve your chances of biglaw while limiting the debt you go into for that chance.

Realistically we don't know enough (geographic preferences, ties, etc.) to give advice on the best schools for your goals, but the T13 are the only schools that you can reasonably expect big law as a graduate. You can get it from other schools for sure, but you shouldn't expect it anywhere else.

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Platopus
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Re: 3.8/167 and 5 years relevant/consulting work experience

Postby Platopus » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:05 pm

UVA2B wrote:
What's the magic sauce to "making sure you are in top third?" You can't plan on that, and it's foolish to suggest it.


Agree with this; there is never a guarantee that you will land in the top 30% of your class. OP should expect median at whatever school he/she attends, and use that as a metric for determining the feasibility of certain career paths & debt loads.




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