3.55/172 with above average soft

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Oleo
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3.55/172 with above average soft

Postby Oleo » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:39 pm

I have a 3.55 gpa from a top university (not HYP) and a 172 lsat, applying with Peace Corps under my belt. I'm not an URM.

My gpa is probably the weakest part of my application. I had around a 3.3 for both freshman and sophomore years, then spent my junior year abroad. I did well in a challenging program, but these grades aren't on my transcript. My senior year I got a 3.9. Is it worth it to write an addendum explaining the upward trend? I struggled with depression and the death of a close family member my first two years but this struggle isn't really documented, so it would just be my word.

I'm planning to blanket apply from NYU on down. Are there any T6 schools where I have a decent shot of being admitted, or is it a waste of time? Thanks!
Last edited by Oleo on Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cavalier1138
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Re: 3.55 - 172 with above average soft

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:54 pm

Oleo wrote:I did well in a challenging program, but these grades aren't on my transcript.


But are they on a transcript somewhere? If they are, you'll be reporting that to LSAC, and it will have an impact on your LSAC GPA (the only one schools care about).

I don't think an addendum would be particularly helpful here, as even your bad years aren't all that bad. But if you wanted to include a short one addressing the death of a family member (don't address the depression unless it's inextricably linked to the death), it wouldn't have a negative impact.

Oleo
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Re: 3.55 - 172 with above average soft

Postby Oleo » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:12 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Oleo wrote:I did well in a challenging program, but these grades aren't on my transcript.


But are they on a transcript somewhere? If they are, you'll be reporting that to LSAC, and it will have an impact on your LSAC GPA (the only one schools care about).

I don't think an addendum would be particularly helpful here, as even your bad years aren't all that bad. But if you wanted to include a short one addressing the death of a family member (don't address the depression unless it's inextricably linked to the death), it wouldn't have a negative impact.


I was under the impression that LSAC doesn't want to see my study abroad grades if I spent a year or less at that institution? Can anyone confirm or deny this? My university didn't give me any grades, I just have transfer credits that don't affect my gpa. My time abroad was a mixture of courses offered through the study abroad program itself and classes at a local university.

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UVA2B
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Re: 3.55 - 172 with above average soft

Postby UVA2B » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:13 pm

Oleo wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Oleo wrote:I did well in a challenging program, but these grades aren't on my transcript.


But are they on a transcript somewhere? If they are, you'll be reporting that to LSAC, and it will have an impact on your LSAC GPA (the only one schools care about).

I don't think an addendum would be particularly helpful here, as even your bad years aren't all that bad. But if you wanted to include a short one addressing the death of a family member (don't address the depression unless it's inextricably linked to the death), it wouldn't have a negative impact.


I was under the impression that LSAC doesn't want to see my study abroad grades if I spent a year or less at that institution? Can anyone confirm or deny this? My university didn't give me any grades, I just have transfer credits that don't affect my gpa. My time abroad was a mixture of courses offered through the study abroad program itself and classes at a local university.


If it factors into your UG degree, it needs to be reported. How it's reported to LSAC is very fact-dependent on the institution and how it's reported on your transcript.

cavalier1138
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Re: 3.55 - 172 with above average soft

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:21 pm

Oleo wrote:I was under the impression that LSAC doesn't want to see my study abroad grades if I spent a year or less at that institution? Can anyone confirm or deny this? My university didn't give me any grades, I just have transfer credits that don't affect my gpa. My time abroad was a mixture of courses offered through the study abroad program itself and classes at a local university.


How was the program accredited? Did you just enroll separately at the international institution and get the credits transferred, or were you enrolled through an American program? If it's the former, I believe LSAC doesn't count it, but it may be worth a phone call for clarification.

Oleo
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Re: 3.55 - 172 with above average soft

Postby Oleo » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:54 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Oleo wrote:I was under the impression that LSAC doesn't want to see my study abroad grades if I spent a year or less at that institution? Can anyone confirm or deny this? My university didn't give me any grades, I just have transfer credits that don't affect my gpa. My time abroad was a mixture of courses offered through the study abroad program itself and classes at a local university.


How was the program accredited? Did you just enroll separately at the international institution and get the credits transferred, or were you enrolled through an American program? If it's the former, I believe LSAC doesn't count it, but it may be worth a phone call for clarification.


I enrolled to the program separately from my university, then when I returned I had to apply to have credits transferred. My undergraduate transcript says "Study Abroad - Affiliated" for each of the terms I spent abroad, but no individual courses are listed and this has no affect on my gpa, even though I used 6 of these classes to fulfill graduation requirements.

cavalier1138
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Re: 3.55 - 172 with above average soft

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:03 pm

Oleo wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Oleo wrote:I was under the impression that LSAC doesn't want to see my study abroad grades if I spent a year or less at that institution? Can anyone confirm or deny this? My university didn't give me any grades, I just have transfer credits that don't affect my gpa. My time abroad was a mixture of courses offered through the study abroad program itself and classes at a local university.


How was the program accredited? Did you just enroll separately at the international institution and get the credits transferred, or were you enrolled through an American program? If it's the former, I believe LSAC doesn't count it, but it may be worth a phone call for clarification.


I enrolled to the program separately from my university, then when I returned I had to apply to have credits transferred. My undergraduate transcript says "Study Abroad - Affiliated" for each of the terms I spent abroad, but no individual courses are listed and this has no affect on my gpa, even though I used 6 of these classes to fulfill graduation requirements.


I'd call LSAC to be sure, but it sounds like that transcript isn't reported.

NoDayButToday
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Re: 3.55/172 with above average soft

Postby NoDayButToday » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:14 pm

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Last edited by NoDayButToday on Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fredfred
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Re: 3.55/172 with above average soft

Postby fredfred » Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:33 pm

Peace Corp is an average soft at best. Sorry to break that news to you. Agree with everyone else, call the Lsac about grades

Oleo
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Re: 3.55/172 with above average soft

Postby Oleo » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:28 pm

fredfred wrote:Peace Corp is an average soft at best. Sorry to break that news to you. Agree with everyone else, call the Lsac about grades


Oh no :cry:

Well thanks for the heads up about that. And thanks to everyone else, I'll get in touch with LSAC to try to sort out the transcript thing.

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Platopus
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Re: 3.55/172 with above average soft

Postby Platopus » Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:53 am

Oleo wrote:
fredfred wrote:Peace Corp is an average soft at best. Sorry to break that news to you. Agree with everyone else, call the Lsac about grades


Oh no :cry:

Well thanks for the heads up about that. And thanks to everyone else, I'll get in touch with LSAC to try to sort out the transcript thing.


Yeah, unfortunately, many applicants in the t-14 range have great volunteer experience or other outstanding softs - it comes with the territory. You should still have a decent cycle though.

Londoncalling020
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Re: 3.55/172 with above average soft

Postby Londoncalling020 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:43 pm

Platopus wrote:
Oleo wrote:
fredfred wrote:Peace Corp is an average soft at best. Sorry to break that news to you. Agree with everyone else, call the Lsac about grades


Oh no :cry:

Well thanks for the heads up about that. And thanks to everyone else, I'll get in touch with LSAC to try to sort out the transcript thing.


Yeah, unfortunately, many applicants in the t-14 range have great volunteer experience or other outstanding softs - it comes with the territory. You should still have a decent cycle though.


This is wrong. Peace Corps is not considered an "average soft" by Adcoms. It is a 27 month program, often in a challenging development environment, which is difficult to even be accepted into. Former Peace Corps volunteer, Non-URM, who performed much better than her statistics indicated across the T-14. Peace Corps experience was cited by the Admissions Dean who admitted me where I ultimately attended. OP, feel free to send me a PM if you want to discuss.

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Platopus
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Re: 3.55/172 with above average soft

Postby Platopus » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:53 pm

Londoncalling020 wrote:This is wrong. Peace Corps is not considered an "average soft" by Adcoms. It is a 27 month program, often in a challenging development environment, which is difficult to even be accepted into. Former Peace Corps volunteer, Non-URM, who performed much better than her statistics indicated across the T-14. Peace Corps experience was cited by the Admissions Dean who admitted me where I ultimately attended. OP, feel free to send me a PM if you want to discuss.


I'm not debating the challenge or the value of the program, it certainly is an accomplishment, but there have been many posters, especially those aiming for the t-13 that have had similar experiences. My only point is that among the T-13 the caliber of softs increases.

fredfred
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Re: 3.55/172 with above average soft

Postby fredfred » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:57 pm

Platopus wrote:
Londoncalling020 wrote:This is wrong. Peace Corps is not considered an "average soft" by Adcoms. It is a 27 month program, often in a challenging development environment, which is difficult to even be accepted into. Former Peace Corps volunteer, Non-URM, who performed much better than her statistics indicated across the T-14. Peace Corps experience was cited by the Admissions Dean who admitted me where I ultimately attended. OP, feel free to send me a PM if you want to discuss.


I'm not debating the challenge or the value of the program, it certainly is an accomplishment, but there have been many posters, especially those aiming for the t-13 that have had similar experiences. My only point is that among the T-13 the caliber of softs increases.


1/3 of my 1l section at a t13 was either teach for america or peace corps. Its not a strong soft. Its average. Im glad you outperformed, but it wont help OP outperform at this point. If it does, great. But expectation should be minimal because there is no peace corp bump.

Londoncalling020
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Re: 3.55/172 with above average soft

Postby Londoncalling020 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:18 pm

Platopus wrote:
Londoncalling020 wrote:This is wrong. Peace Corps is not considered an "average soft" by Adcoms. It is a 27 month program, often in a challenging development environment, which is difficult to even be accepted into. Former Peace Corps volunteer, Non-URM, who performed much better than her statistics indicated across the T-14. Peace Corps experience was cited by the Admissions Dean who admitted me where I ultimately attended. OP, feel free to send me a PM if you want to discuss.


I'm not debating the challenge or the value of the program, it certainly is an accomplishment, but there have been many posters, especially those aiming for the t-13 that have had similar experiences. My only point is that among the T-13 the caliber of softs increases.


That's a fair point.

Londoncalling020
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Re: 3.55/172 with above average soft

Postby Londoncalling020 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:22 pm

fredfred wrote:
Platopus wrote:
Londoncalling020 wrote:This is wrong. Peace Corps is not considered an "average soft" by Adcoms. It is a 27 month program, often in a challenging development environment, which is difficult to even be accepted into. Former Peace Corps volunteer, Non-URM, who performed much better than her statistics indicated across the T-14. Peace Corps experience was cited by the Admissions Dean who admitted me where I ultimately attended. OP, feel free to send me a PM if you want to discuss.


I'm not debating the challenge or the value of the program, it certainly is an accomplishment, but there have been many posters, especially those aiming for the t-13 that have had similar experiences. My only point is that among the T-13 the caliber of softs increases.


1/3 of my 1l section at a t13 was either teach for america or peace corps. Its not a strong soft. Its average. Im glad you outperformed, but it wont help OP outperform at this point. If it does, great. But expectation should be minimal because there is no peace corp bump.


Maybe my experience was an anomaly. But hard to believe given I applied during one of the most competitive application cycles in LS history (peak LS enrollment, right before the crash, now a midlevel) during my cycle and more than one adcom mentioned it. At the very least, OP, at least one more positive data point. Best of luck on your cycle.

eck456
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Re: 3.55/172 with above average soft

Postby eck456 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:31 pm

Oleo wrote:
fredfred wrote:Peace Corp is an average soft at best. Sorry to break that news to you. Agree with everyone else, call the Lsac about grades


Oh no :cry:

Well thanks for the heads up about that. And thanks to everyone else, I'll get in touch with LSAC to try to sort out the transcript thing.


You don't need to call - I did what sounds like it was either the same program or a very similar one, and LSAC called me out in a scary email for "failing to report" a transcript. even though I then ordered it, it still has a fun little "!" next to it since I didn't explicitly list it originally but it's on my resume and cited on my other transcript (same as yours -Study Abroad Affiliated but with XXs for grades). Even if it's a 6-credit semester program you need to send it - the ! had no impact on my cycle or anything but they reeeeally don't like it when they don't see it sent with your other stuff. You need to file it as a non-degree transcript from the host university in the US, even if you directly enrolled in the local university courses but with the US university as your intermediary (for example if you did BU's Madrid program it would be a BU transcript, not Carlos III or whatever they partner with). Lmk if that doesn't make sense for whatever reason, but I think a good golden rule for LSAC is to over report to avoid the hissy fit

Oleo
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Re: 3.55/172 with above average soft

Postby Oleo » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:29 am

eck456 wrote: You don't need to call - I did what sounds like it was either the same program or a very similar one, and LSAC called me out in a scary email for "failing to report" a transcript. even though I then ordered it, it still has a fun little "!" next to it since I didn't explicitly list it originally but it's on my resume and cited on my other transcript (same as yours -Study Abroad Affiliated but with XXs for grades). Even if it's a 6-credit semester program you need to send it - the ! had no impact on my cycle or anything but they reeeeally don't like it when they don't see it sent with your other stuff. You need to file it as a non-degree transcript from the host university in the US, even if you directly enrolled in the local university courses but with the US university as your intermediary (for example if you did BU's Madrid program it would be a BU transcript, not Carlos III or whatever they partner with). Lmk if that doesn't make sense for whatever reason, but I think a good golden rule for LSAC is to over report to avoid the hissy fit


Thanks for the heads up! Did the study abroad transcript affect your LSAC gpa at all?

eck456
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Re: 3.55/172 with above average soft

Postby eck456 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:16 am

Oleo wrote:
eck456 wrote: You don't need to call - I did what sounds like it was either the same program or a very similar one, and LSAC called me out in a scary email for "failing to report" a transcript. even though I then ordered it, it still has a fun little "!" next to it since I didn't explicitly list it originally but it's on my resume and cited on my other transcript (same as yours -Study Abroad Affiliated but with XXs for grades). Even if it's a 6-credit semester program you need to send it - the ! had no impact on my cycle or anything but they reeeeally don't like it when they don't see it sent with your other stuff. You need to file it as a non-degree transcript from the host university in the US, even if you directly enrolled in the local university courses but with the US university as your intermediary (for example if you did BU's Madrid program it would be a BU transcript, not Carlos III or whatever they partner with). Lmk if that doesn't make sense for whatever reason, but I think a good golden rule for LSAC is to over report to avoid the hissy fit


Thanks for the heads up! Did the study abroad transcript affect your LSAC gpa at all?


Wait is this a good opportunity for me to ask how to see my LSAC gpa? I found out literally after I was done with the process that it might be different than my straight UG transcript grade, but I have genuinely no idea how to find it out and since I was already into law school it seemed dumb to start a thread, wait out the inevitable mockery and then spend time on it. Trade you an answer for an answer? :lol:

Oleo
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Re: 3.55/172 with above average soft

Postby Oleo » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:43 pm

eck456 wrote: Wait is this a good opportunity for me to ask how to see my LSAC gpa? I found out literally after I was done with the process that it might be different than my straight UG transcript grade, but I have genuinely no idea how to find it out and since I was already into law school it seemed dumb to start a thread, wait out the inevitable mockery and then spend time on it. Trade you an answer for an answer? :lol:


Deal!

Login into your LSAC account, navigate to Apply>Credentials>Transcripts>Academic Summary Report. You can see the info there. I have a "Degree GPA" and a "Cumulative GPA," the two of which are slightly different.

eck456
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Re: 3.55/172 with above average soft

Postby eck456 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:05 pm

Oleo wrote:
eck456 wrote: Wait is this a good opportunity for me to ask how to see my LSAC gpa? I found out literally after I was done with the process that it might be different than my straight UG transcript grade, but I have genuinely no idea how to find it out and since I was already into law school it seemed dumb to start a thread, wait out the inevitable mockery and then spend time on it. Trade you an answer for an answer? :lol:


Deal!

Login into your LSAC account, navigate to Apply>Credentials>Transcripts>Academic Summary Report. You can see the info there. I have a "Degree GPA" and a "Cumulative GPA," the two of which are slightly different.


Interesting! They were not different and were exactly the same as what I thought they would be - but I also did pretty much the same abroad as I did during a normal semester? So it's hard for me to tell if they impacted anything!! But thanks for teaching me how to do something I should have learned like a year ago haha :lol:

eck456
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Re: 3.55/172 with above average soft

Postby eck456 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:10 pm

eck456 wrote:
Oleo wrote:
eck456 wrote: Wait is this a good opportunity for me to ask how to see my LSAC gpa? I found out literally after I was done with the process that it might be different than my straight UG transcript grade, but I have genuinely no idea how to find it out and since I was already into law school it seemed dumb to start a thread, wait out the inevitable mockery and then spend time on it. Trade you an answer for an answer? :lol:


Deal!

Login into your LSAC account, navigate to Apply>Credentials>Transcripts>Academic Summary Report. You can see the info there. I have a "Degree GPA" and a "Cumulative GPA," the two of which are slightly different.


Interesting! They were not different and were exactly the same as what I thought they would be - but I also did pretty much the same abroad as I did during a normal semester? So it's hard for me to tell if they impacted anything!! But thanks for teaching me how to do something I should have learned like a year ago haha :lol:


Though now that I'm looking at these reports that I didn't know existed, I can see that they include it as "a courtesy" bc it's not a year's worth of credits, so it looks like they did not include it in a GPA. It also says the "transcript has not been certified as official....LSAC can only certify that it has not been Student-issued." For what that's worth? This was for a 6-credit semester (I continue to not understand credit hours)




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