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rosemi
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Postby rosemi » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:51 pm

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Last edited by rosemi on Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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UVA2B
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Re: Splitter - Should I retake?

Postby UVA2B » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:56 pm

Do it if you really want to retake it because additional points can't hurt, but once you're above every school's 75%, it's definitely diminishing/unknown returns. I wouldn't kill myself to get a 178/179. You'll have good options with the numbers you have now.

Bach-City
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Re: Splitter - Should I retake?

Postby Bach-City » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:00 pm

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Last edited by Bach-City on Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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UVA2B
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Re: Splitter - Should I retake?

Postby UVA2B » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:19 pm

Bach-City wrote:
rosemi wrote:(Please don't quote)


I disagree with the above post. If you retake the LSAT again you'll A) look neurotic and B) have to delay your application because your Sept score won't come out until November

Getting your application in early is much more important for someone in your situation.


So you don't agree that it can't hurt? A score coming out in November isn't a late application. It will have zero impact on where they get in. It might make them wait an additional month and a half for a decision, but no school will be getting picky at that point in the cycle.

Like I said (that you apparently disagree with), it probably won't change much once you're above all 75th%, but no one can definitively say there is no difference between a 177/3.5 and a 179/3.5 beyond what intuition makes sense in the abstract. If they wanted to see if they could improve, that's on them. It probably won't make a difference in their admission decisions, but that's on them.

Really confused if you disagree with the substance of my post or if you really think having a complete app in September gives any kind of leg up over going complete in November.

ETA: and the neurotic thing...just no.

Edit: stupid phone autocorrect

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Platopus
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Re: Splitter - Should I retake?

Postby Platopus » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:41 pm

UVA2B wrote:Do it if you really want to retake it because additional points can't hurt, but once you're above every school's 75%, it's definitely diminishing/unknown returns. I wouldn't kill myself to get a 178/179. You'll have good options with the numbers you have now.


I'm going to have to disagree, too. OP is going to look neurotic and I think there is realistically zero upside, besides OP's own increased self-worth. I think a 175, maybe even a 176 could be justified, but once you hit 177+ you are literally one of ~200 people who will be applying with a 177+; there is no meaningful distinction between a 177 and a 179. OP is better off putting his/her time and energy into crafting a PS, Why X, polishing resumes, volunteering, literally almost anything else. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't see going from a 99.9 percentile to a 99.99 percentile score making any difference for OP, and at the worst I see it as a waste of otherwise valuable time that can be spent towards other parts of his/her application.

edit: maybe I'm wrong. Hard to say though, since the 177's applied after November. See Harvard below
http://mylsn.info/uhvexp/
Last edited by Platopus on Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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DaydreamNation
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Re: Splitter - Should I retake?

Postby DaydreamNation » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:47 pm

Don't retake

ZVBXRPL
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Re: Splitter - Should I retake?

Postby ZVBXRPL » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:52 pm

Platopus wrote:
UVA2B wrote:Do it if you really want to retake it because additional points can't hurt, but once you're above every school's 75%, it's definitely diminishing/unknown returns. I wouldn't kill myself to get a 178/179. You'll have good options with the numbers you have now.


I'm going to have to disagree, too. OP is going to look neurotic and I think there is realistically zero upside, besides OP's own increased self-worth. I think a 175, maybe even a 176 could be justified, but once you hit 177+ you are literally one of ~200 people who will be applying with a 177+; there is no meaningful distinction between a 177 and a 179. OP is better off putting his/her time and energy into crafting a PS, Why X, polishing resumes, volunteering, literally almost anything else. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't see going from a 99.9 percentile to a 99.99 percentile score making any difference for OP, and at the worst I see it as a waste of otherwise valuable time that can be spent towards other parts of his/her application.

Bulls make money, bears make money, but pigs get slaughtered.

I agree with above poster. Will look silly. Chances are you won't score higher. Then what? Take a look at the below chart outlining what retakers scored the 2nd and 3rd time around. Out of the six pigs who got 177-179 and retook, four scored lower, one 179er stayed the same, and one 179er scored higher. I know a guy who got something like 23 perfect scores (teaches an LSAT class I took). Those are the types who retake. Not an actual applicant. Bottom line: don't be a pig.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/data-(lsac-resources)-docs/repeaterdata.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwi7lveWqpTVAhWKOD4KHfMsAhsQFggfMAE&usg=AFQjCNEeHo_FhcFaH9QUNA-kEheiR73lxw
Last edited by ZVBXRPL on Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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UVA2B
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Re: Splitter - Should I retake?

Postby UVA2B » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:54 pm

I accept this is a point where reasonable minds can disagree, but I think this might be an issue of law students/LSAT takers looking at the 177 and how they would see it vs. how an admissions officer would see it. And maybe my tone and substance wasn't clear enough: I don't know if it would make the slightest bit of difference, and I would be skeptical if it did. It is infinitely more important to perfect the rest of their app for sure because the 177 is good enough for any school (which I've now stated twice), but if the person wanted to take the LSAT again just to see if they could prove they can get a 178-180, I would push back very seriously that any admissions officer would see the multiple LSATs as some kind of neuroses. They might wonder why, but just like any multiple test taker, they'll just take whatever the higher score is and move on. TLS would question why a 177 would feel the need to retake (as both of you have now done) and cast some sort of judgment on the person who did it, but admissions officers are not TLSers in the LSAT vortex. They're just trying to fill their classes with the best candidates they come across. And as I've also already said, there is no impact on admissions decisions whether you go complete in September vs. November, so it's up to the OP whether they want to give the LSAT one last shot, for personal edification if nothing else.

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Platopus
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Re: Splitter - Should I retake?

Postby Platopus » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:04 pm

UVA2B wrote:I accept this is a point where reasonable minds can disagree, but I think this might be an issue of law students/LSAT takers looking at the 177 and how they would see it vs. how an admissions officer would see it. And maybe my tone and substance wasn't clear enough: I don't know if it would make the slightest bit of difference, and I would be skeptical if it did. It is infinitely more important to perfect the rest of their app for sure because the 177 is good enough for any school (which I've now stated twice), but if the person wanted to take the LSAT again just to see if they could prove they can get a 178-180, I would push back very seriously that any admissions officer would see the multiple LSATs as some kind of neuroses. They might wonder why, but just like any multiple test taker, they'll just take whatever the higher score is and move on. TLS would question why a 177 would feel the need to retake (as both of you have now done) and cast some sort of judgment on the person who did it, but admissions officers are not TLSers in the LSAT vortex. They're just trying to fill their classes with the best candidates they come across. And as I've also already said, there is no impact on admissions decisions whether you go complete in September vs. November, so it's up to the OP whether they want to give the LSAT one last shot, for personal edification if nothing else.


I definitely think this is a debatable point upon which reasonable minds can agree, so no disrespect. I initially actually had the opposite reaction as you. I see TLS being more comfortable with the idea of a retake (since TLS can be a sort of LSAT cult at times), whereas I see the adcomms sort of rolling their eyes at a 177 retaking for 2(?) points. I get that to adcomms the higher number is always more valuable, but I doubt they see a 179 as more qualified than a 177. That said, I think you're right in that we really don't know how adcomms would view the different scores, so we are really just sort of speculating here.

ZVBXRPL
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Re: Splitter - Should I retake?

Postby ZVBXRPL » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:07 pm

Platopus wrote:
UVA2B wrote:I accept this is a point where reasonable minds can disagree, but I think this might be an issue of law students/LSAT takers looking at the 177 and how they would see it vs. how an admissions officer would see it. And maybe my tone and substance wasn't clear enough: I don't know if it would make the slightest bit of difference, and I would be skeptical if it did. It is infinitely more important to perfect the rest of their app for sure because the 177 is good enough for any school (which I've now stated twice), but if the person wanted to take the LSAT again just to see if they could prove they can get a 178-180, I would push back very seriously that any admissions officer would see the multiple LSATs as some kind of neuroses. They might wonder why, but just like any multiple test taker, they'll just take whatever the higher score is and move on. TLS would question why a 177 would feel the need to retake (as both of you have now done) and cast some sort of judgment on the person who did it, but admissions officers are not TLSers in the LSAT vortex. They're just trying to fill their classes with the best candidates they come across. And as I've also already said, there is no impact on admissions decisions whether you go complete in September vs. November, so it's up to the OP whether they want to give the LSAT one last shot, for personal edification if nothing else.


I definitely think this is a debatable point upon which reasonable minds can agree, so no disrespect. I initially actually had the opposite reaction as you. I see TLS being more comfortable with the idea of a retake (since TLS can be a sort of LSAT cult at times), whereas I see the adcomms sort of rolling their eyes at a 177 retaking for 2(?) points. I get that to adcomms the higher number is always more valuable, but I doubt they see a 179 as more qualified than a 177. That said, I think you're right in that we really don't know how adcomms would view the different scores, so we are really just sort of speculating here.

Geez ask Spivey!

rosemi
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Re: Splitter - Should I retake?

Postby rosemi » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:16 pm

Hi everyone, thanks for the advice. This debate is the exact one I'm having within my mind - I know its crazy to retake such a good score, so I just need confirmation of it haha.

The thing is, I literally fell asleep for a part of the first section (was too nervous to sleep properly the previous night, and my test center was 3 hours away), and that's the only section I lost any points in. So I'm currently a bit regretful of the circumstances around my score.

If I had any shot at improving my chances for H I would do it because its realistically my only shot at need-based financial aid. I'm debt financing the entirety of my law school education, and I feel like my low GPA will hinder me from getting any large scholarships. And looking at MyLSN, the H acceptance cutoff for my GPA is 177 = WL/D, and 178+ = A. (http://mylsn.info/uhvexp/) Am I putting too much weight into the tiny sample size around my stats?

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Platopus
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Re: Splitter - Should I retake?

Postby Platopus » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:23 pm

rosemi wrote:/) Am I putting too much weight into the tiny sample size around my stats?


Yes. If you refine the search, you'll see that all the 178's-180's all applied before December, so it's almost impossible to say whether they were admitted because they got their apps in early or because they were above 177. In any case, the sample size is probably too small.

edit: you fell asleep during the test and got a 177? damn.

rosemi
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Postby rosemi » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:06 am

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Last edited by rosemi on Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NUDad
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Re: Splitter - Chance me (NU ED v. Apply Broadly?)

Postby NUDad » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:39 am

I wouldn't apply for the NU ED with your stats. With a good application you should have comparable/better offers from T13 schools. But if you have strong ties to Chicago and want Chicago Biglaw and like the idea of having your plans set early in the cycle, then applying NU ED is at least defensible.

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rowdy
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Re: Splitter - Chance me (NU ED v. Apply Broadly?)

Postby rowdy » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:54 am

rosemi wrote:Hi!

Thanks for the advice! (Please don't quote)


Don't play the game if you don't want to win. It you apply ED, you're probably going to get it. If you want to see what your other options are, don't do it. If NU is your first choice, and you would go there with 150k over anywhere else, apply ED.

Veil of Ignorance
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Re: Splitter - Chance me (NU ED v. Apply Broadly?)

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:20 pm

Nah, unless you're some kind of genius there's no way you can expect to get above a 177. That's an incredible score. One bad game and you're lower than 177. I agree that it can't hurt, but come on....




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