2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

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ILGentiluomo
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2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby ILGentiluomo » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:18 pm

Hello all,

Loyola Chicago has been my top school choice. I was waitlisted back in February and just received an email today that they don't expect waitlist movement until after June 15. i don't know much about the waitlist protocols for law schools. Does this mean their class is pretty much filled? I put my deposit down for Chicago-Kent, who offered me a 90k scholership. Would someone be able to let me know if I still have a realistic chance at Loyola, or are things looking bleak from here?

Also, I'm well aware of Loyola's 50% job placement for lawyers. I have family connections in the law field and really liked Loyola, because of their strong Health Law program and Advocacy program and that's what I want to specialize in.

Thank you,

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Platopus
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby Platopus » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:49 pm

Kent and Loyola are pretty much peers in the Chicago market, why wouldn't you just take the money at Kent and be happy with the reduced cost of attending a law school with pretty much identical job prospects as Loyola. If you do have family connections, attending the cheapest school should be your priority. To answer your question, yes, they likely have a full class. I wouldn't expect much movement, but there's probably a chance. I just don't see Loyola being the better outcome.

cavalier1138
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:38 am

ILGentiluomo wrote:Also, I'm well aware of Loyola's 50% job placement for lawyers. I have family connections in the law field and really liked Loyola, because of their strong Health Law program and Advocacy program and that's what I want to specialize in.


Are those "family connections" also servicing your debt for you? A $90k scholarship at Kent/Loyola means you're still going to be well over $100k in debt.

ILGentiluomo
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby ILGentiluomo » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:57 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
ILGentiluomo wrote:Also, I'm well aware of Loyola's 50% job placement for lawyers. I have family connections in the law field and really liked Loyola, because of their strong Health Law program and Advocacy program and that's what I want to specialize in.


Are those "family connections" also servicing your debt for you? A $90k scholarship at Kent/Loyola means you're still going to be well over $100k in debt.


Thanks for your reply, How would I be in 100k debt if you don't mind explaining? Kent is roughly 50k a year, so wouldn't I be around 60k in debt?

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guynourmin
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby guynourmin » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:06 pm

ILGentiluomo wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
ILGentiluomo wrote:Also, I'm well aware of Loyola's 50% job placement for lawyers. I have family connections in the law field and really liked Loyola, because of their strong Health Law program and Advocacy program and that's what I want to specialize in.


Are those "family connections" also servicing your debt for you? A $90k scholarship at Kent/Loyola means you're still going to be well over $100k in debt.


Thanks for your reply, How would I be in 100k debt if you don't mind explaining? Kent is roughly 50k a year, so wouldn't I be around 60k in debt?


Who is paying your rent?

ILGentiluomo
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby ILGentiluomo » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:25 pm

guybourdin wrote:
ILGentiluomo wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
ILGentiluomo wrote:Also, I'm well aware of Loyola's 50% job placement for lawyers. I have family connections in the law field and really liked Loyola, because of their strong Health Law program and Advocacy program and that's what I want to specialize in.


Are those "family connections" also servicing your debt for you? A $90k scholarship at Kent/Loyola means you're still going to be well over $100k in debt.


Thanks for your reply, How would I be in 100k debt if you don't mind explaining? Kent is roughly 50k a year, so wouldn't I be around 60k in debt?


Who is paying your rent?


I'm living with family and commuting, so I won't be paying rent.

cavalier1138
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:27 pm

ILGentiluomo wrote:I'm living with family and commuting, so I won't be paying rent.


Accounting for origination fees and tuition increases, you'll probably come in a little under $100k (assuming you have to take out loans for books and food expenses... unless your family is covering that, too).

Anyway, how much money do you expect to be earning with a job from either school? And what kind of "health law" practice do you envision having?

ILGentiluomo
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby ILGentiluomo » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:34 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
ILGentiluomo wrote:I'm living with family and commuting, so I won't be paying rent.


Accounting for origination fees and tuition increases, you'll probably come in a little under $100k (assuming you have to take out loans for books and food expenses... unless your family is covering that, too).

Anyway, how much money do you expect to be earning with a job from either school? And what kind of "health law" practice do you envision having?


I would say I'm going to expect around 50k as my starting. My ultimate goal will be opening up a firm where I specialize in medical malpractice and also do criminal defense.

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guynourmin
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby guynourmin » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:59 pm

ILGentiluomo wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
ILGentiluomo wrote:I'm living with family and commuting, so I won't be paying rent.


Accounting for origination fees and tuition increases, you'll probably come in a little under $100k (assuming you have to take out loans for books and food expenses... unless your family is covering that, too).

Anyway, how much money do you expect to be earning with a job from either school? And what kind of "health law" practice do you envision having?


I would say I'm going to expect around 50k as my starting. My ultimate goal will be opening up a firm where I specialize in medical malpractice and also do criminal defense.


So split the difference between your (obviously under) guess of $60k and Cavaliers $100k and say $75k, maybe. Your payment on a standard 10 year repayment plan would end up being about 30% of your net income. You'd be taking home less than $2,000/mo. Are you going to continue to live with family after you graduate?

So, you're not going to get on a standard repayment plan, then. Do you know everything that entails? Can you explain it all to me?

ILGentiluomo
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby ILGentiluomo » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:09 pm

guybourdin wrote:
ILGentiluomo wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
ILGentiluomo wrote:I'm living with family and commuting, so I won't be paying rent.


Accounting for origination fees and tuition increases, you'll probably come in a little under $100k (assuming you have to take out loans for books and food expenses... unless your family is covering that, too).

Anyway, how much money do you expect to be earning with a job from either school? And what kind of "health law" practice do you envision having?


I would say I'm going to expect around 50k as my starting. My ultimate goal will be opening up a firm where I specialize in medical malpractice and also do criminal defense.


So split the difference between your (obviously under) guess of $60k and Cavaliers $100k and say $75k, maybe. Your payment on a standard 10 year repayment plan would end up being about 30% of your net income. You'd be taking home less than $2,000/mo. Are you going to continue to live with family after you graduate?

So, you're not going to get on a standard repayment plan, then. Do you know everything that entails? Can you explain it all to me?


Well parents are paying 10k a year towards my tuition to help lower loans, so I thought I was being liberal with my 60k estimate, but I realize I didn't specify the 10k, so my bad.
As far as if I take under 2k a month, my fiancé makes about 3k as an accountant, so we would rent out an affordable apartment together

cavalier1138
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:17 pm

Well, sounds like you've got the debt angle figured out. I'd speak to your "family connections" about your long-term plans though. There's no such thing as a solo practitioner who specializes in medical malpractice and criminal defense.

ILGentiluomo
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby ILGentiluomo » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:30 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:Well, sounds like you've got the debt angle figured out. I'd speak to your "family connections" about your long-term plans though. There's no such thing as a solo practitioner who specializes in medical malpractice and criminal defense.


I'm going to have to respectively disagree. I have seen attorneys who do civil litigation and criminal defense. Is it an easy thing to crack? Absolutely not, but you asked my what my ultimate goal was and I let you know. As far as my connection, he has a firm that specializes in business law. That's not something I would like to work in, but if that's my only option, then I'll gladly take it, or if I get a job offer as a public defender, I would be happy with that also.

cavalier1138
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:08 pm

ILGentiluomo wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Well, sounds like you've got the debt angle figured out. I'd speak to your "family connections" about your long-term plans though. There's no such thing as a solo practitioner who specializes in medical malpractice and criminal defense.


I'm going to have to respectively disagree. I have seen attorneys who do civil litigation and criminal defense. Is it an easy thing to crack? Absolutely not, but you asked my what my ultimate goal was and I let you know. As far as my connection, he has a firm that specializes in business law. That's not something I would like to work in, but if that's my only option, then I'll gladly take it, or if I get a job offer as a public defender, I would be happy with that also.


Could you please show me a site/page/anything for an attorney who specializes in both medical malpractice and criminal defense. A successful one would be preferable, but I'd be curious to see who's actually doing that work on their own.

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UVA2B
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby UVA2B » Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:15 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
ILGentiluomo wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Well, sounds like you've got the debt angle figured out. I'd speak to your "family connections" about your long-term plans though. There's no such thing as a solo practitioner who specializes in medical malpractice and criminal defense.


I'm going to have to respectively disagree. I have seen attorneys who do civil litigation and criminal defense. Is it an easy thing to crack? Absolutely not, but you asked my what my ultimate goal was and I let you know. As far as my connection, he has a firm that specializes in business law. That's not something I would like to work in, but if that's my only option, then I'll gladly take it, or if I get a job offer as a public defender, I would be happy with that also.


Could you please show me a site/page/anything for an attorney who specializes in both medical malpractice and criminal defense. A successful one would be preferable, but I'd be curious to see who's actually doing that work on their own.


To piggyback off of cav, you do realize these are entirely different specialties, right? The reason a solo won't do both is because you come out with zero training, and starting a solo shop with zero experience isn't going to suddenly make you a desirable plaintiff side med mal and certainly won't be doing desirable criminal defense, and most of all won't really be doing both.

You could very well try to focus on one or the other, but you're not doing both.

ETA: back to your original question, you seem to have this figured out otherwise, go to Kent and don't look back. Loyola is not worth sticker off the waitlist compared to Kent at that debt load.

lakers180
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby lakers180 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:02 pm

how long did you study for the lsat? maybe you should consider retaking for better options

ILGentiluomo
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby ILGentiluomo » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:36 pm

UVA2B wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
ILGentiluomo wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Well, sounds like you've got the debt angle figured out. I'd speak to your "family connections" about your long-term plans though. There's no such thing as a solo practitioner who specializes in medical malpractice and criminal defense.


I'm going to have to respectively disagree. I have seen attorneys who do civil litigation and criminal defense. Is it an easy thing to crack? Absolutely not, but you asked my what my ultimate goal was and I let you know. As far as my connection, he has a firm that specializes in business law. That's not something I would like to work in, but if that's my only option, then I'll gladly take it, or if I get a job offer as a public defender, I would be happy with that also.


Could you please show me a site/page/anything for an attorney who specializes in both medical malpractice and criminal defense. A successful one would be preferable, but I'd be curious to see who's actually doing that work on their own.


To piggyback off of cav, you do realize these are entirely different specialties, right? The reason a solo won't do both is because you come out with zero training, and starting a solo shop with zero experience isn't going to suddenly make you a desirable plaintiff side med mal and certainly won't be doing desirable criminal defense, and most of all won't really be doing both.

You could very well try to focus on one or the other, but you're not doing both.

ETA: back to your original question, you seem to have this figured out otherwise, go to Kent and don't look back. Loyola is not worth sticker off the waitlist compared to Kent at that debt load.


You could very well be right and maybe I misread when I saw different specialities. If it were between the two, I would pick health care law over criminal. As far as an example, this attorney's website states he does civil litigation I.e personal injury, etc, and also states he does criminal defense. Like I said I could be wrong, or he could do it and be bad at both for all I know, but I thought it was possible. http://www.modestolawyers.com/attorneys ... -b-walker/

Also, Robert Shapiro, OJ's attorney did civil litigation and criminal law from what I've heard, but maybe he was able to because of his reputation with big cases.

Anyways, my passion is in health care law, which was the reason I preferred Loyola over Kent, but you guys are right, I'm going to go with Kent, since Loyola probably won't be worth the extra debt.

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trebekismyhero
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby trebekismyhero » Tue May 02, 2017 12:00 am

ILGentiluomo wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
ILGentiluomo wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Well, sounds like you've got the debt angle figured out. I'd speak to your "family connections" about your long-term plans though. There's no such thing as a solo practitioner who specializes in medical malpractice and criminal defense.


I'm going to have to respectively disagree. I have seen attorneys who do civil litigation and criminal defense. Is it an easy thing to crack? Absolutely not, but you asked my what my ultimate goal was and I let you know. As far as my connection, he has a firm that specializes in business law. That's not something I would like to work in, but if that's my only option, then I'll gladly take it, or if I get a job offer as a public defender, I would be happy with that also.


Could you please show me a site/page/anything for an attorney who specializes in both medical malpractice and criminal defense. A successful one would be preferable, but I'd be curious to see who's actually doing that work on their own.


To piggyback off of cav, you do realize these are entirely different specialties, right? The reason a solo won't do both is because you come out with zero training, and starting a solo shop with zero experience isn't going to suddenly make you a desirable plaintiff side med mal and certainly won't be doing desirable criminal defense, and most of all won't really be doing both.

You could very well try to focus on one or the other, but you're not doing both.

ETA: back to your original question, you seem to have this figured out otherwise, go to Kent and don't look back. Loyola is not worth sticker off the waitlist compared to Kent at that debt load.


You could very well be right and maybe I misread when I saw different specialities. If it were between the two, I would pick health care law over criminal. As far as an example, this attorney's website states he does civil litigation I.e personal injury, etc, and also states he does criminal defense. Like I said I could be wrong, or he could do it and be bad at both for all I know, but I thought it was possible. http://www.modestolawyers.com/attorneys ... -b-walker/

Also, Robert Shapiro, OJ's attorney did civil litigation and criminal law from what I've heard, but maybe he was able to because of his reputation with big cases.

Anyways, my passion is in health care law, which was the reason I preferred Loyola over Kent, but you guys are right, I'm going to go with Kent, since Loyola probably won't be worth the extra debt.


Of course there are attorneys who do civil litigation and criminal law, but most are the guys that put up billboards on the highway and do DUIs and crappy plaintiffs cases that have little to no chance. Go with Kent and hustle

snowball2
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby snowball2 » Thu May 04, 2017 5:54 pm

The flip side of this is where are you going to find clients who, given a choice between you and an established firm that specializes in either of those areas exclusively, would likely be reluctant to go with the "jack of many trades" choice?

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jjcorvino
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby jjcorvino » Tue May 09, 2017 10:13 am

To choose Loyola over Kent when Kent is giving you money is an awful decision. Either way you will be taking too much debt for your likely job outcomes, but you should at least try to minimize it.

Halltheway
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby Halltheway » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:51 am

PM me!

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: 2.65 157 Waitlist Loyola Chicago. Chance?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:07 am

To be fair, outside the halls of the T14, there are tons of solos/small firms where people do civil litigation and criminal defense, and generally speaking the goals sound fairly realistic out of OP's options. If by medical malpractice the OP really means personal injury, those things go together a fair amount. (OP, when you say "medical malpractice" most people here are going to think of very specialized work, usually representing doctors who are being accused of malpractice - personal injury can entail suing doctors when things go wrong but I don't think most people would call it medical malpractice law. If you do mean truly specialized medical malpractice work it is less likely to combine that with criminal defense.)

But OP I also agree with the people here that taking money from Kent makes more sense that going to Loyola at full price - your opportunities are not going to be different enough to make Loyola a better option. Also wrt waitlist, the message you got probably means that people currently admitted have a June 15 deadline for final deposits, so at that point they will know if they have any room to admit off the waitlist. It's not something I would hold my breath for, though.




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