3.95 / 167 / Good - Great Softs

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albanach
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Re: 3.95 / 167 / Good - Great Softs

Postby albanach » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:38 pm

Neil_Gorsuch wrote:I'm 167, 3.95. I just hit my third take - first was in September 2014 so I could still retake a fourth time - bu I'm wary about taking again even though in the days before the exam I was averaging 173 or so. I have great softs and work experience - domestic and international (worked with President, Minister of Defense in a Baltic country in addition to some other work on Middle East) - along with a position as a fellow at a national security think-tank in D.C. in addition to my main job as a management consultant. I also did a pretty extensive undergrad thesis on Islamic Law in the Ottoman Empire as an additional academic cred.

What schools do I have a reasonable change at? I have thought about retaking and am confident I could improve my score to 170+ , but am nervous as to how a fourth take would be perceived. Any advice?


While doubtless they are good and could make a difference in avoiding a WL situation, I'm not sure those are 'great' softs. I had no shortage of classmates with substantive domestic and international political experience. Of course you are summarizing here and there might be something really substantive in your work. Great softs generally require achievement more than connections. Have you won an international medal of some description, or flown a fighter/led troops into combat? Those are the kind of softs that truly make a difference to applications.

As others above have said, your LSAT score does disservice to your excellent GPA. You should retake.

lawschoolbound2017
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Re: 3.95 / 167 / Good - Great Softs

Postby lawschoolbound2017 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:46 pm

FWIW I've got the same numbers with less impressive softs and am in everywhere except HSY

katthegreat11
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Re: 3.95 / 167 / Good - Great Softs

Postby katthegreat11 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:25 pm

albanach wrote:
Neil_Gorsuch wrote:I'm 167, 3.95. I just hit my third take - first was in September 2014 so I could still retake a fourth time - bu I'm wary about taking again even though in the days before the exam I was averaging 173 or so. I have great softs and work experience - domestic and international (worked with President, Minister of Defense in a Baltic country in addition to some other work on Middle East) - along with a position as a fellow at a national security think-tank in D.C. in addition to my main job as a management consultant. I also did a pretty extensive undergrad thesis on Islamic Law in the Ottoman Empire as an additional academic cred.

What schools do I have a reasonable change at? I have thought about retaking and am confident I could improve my score to 170+ , but am nervous as to how a fourth take would be perceived. Any advice?


While doubtless they are good and could make a difference in avoiding a WL situation, I'm not sure those are 'great' softs. I had no shortage of classmates with substantive domestic and international political experience. Of course you are summarizing here and there might be something really substantive in your work. Great softs generally require achievement more than connections. Have you won an international medal of some description, or flown a fighter/led troops into combat? Those are the kind of softs that truly make a difference to applications.

As others above have said, your LSAT score does disservice to your excellent GPA. You should retake.


I disagree that those are not great softs. I have won no medals, participated in no combat, yet I got into HS+rest of the T14 with a 168/3.99. I'm white, have no special connections, first in my family to go to law school... what else could have gotten me in but my softs? Since I think OP's are even more impressive than mine (bio undergrad and desire to pursue biotech/IP/envt law), they should definitely make a difference for him/her.

Still agree to retake, but I don't think the softs OP describes should be discredited, they are certainly above average.

albanach
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Re: 3.95 / 167 / Good - Great Softs

Postby albanach » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:26 pm

katthegreat11 wrote:
I disagree that those are not great softs. I have won no medals, participated in no combat, yet I got into HS+rest of the T14 with a 168/3.99.


The 3.99 GPA. LSN shows almost everyone with similar stats having successes through the T14, including 20-30% success at the very top. That GPA is much harder for schools to find than another applicant with a 99th percentile GPA.

katthegreat11
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Re: 3.95 / 167 / Good - Great Softs

Postby katthegreat11 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:31 pm

albanach wrote:
katthegreat11 wrote:
I disagree that those are not great softs. I have won no medals, participated in no combat, yet I got into HS+rest of the T14 with a 168/3.99.


The 3.99 GPA. LSN shows almost everyone with similar stats having successes through the T14, including 20-30% success at the very top. That GPA is much harder for schools to find than another applicant with a 99th percentile GPA.


Hm, I know that's definitely part of it, but I thought a 3.95 would be close enough to a 3.99.

pizzagoblin
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Re: 3.95 / 167 / Good - Great Softs

Postby pizzagoblin » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:03 pm

I have the exact same stats (3.95/167) and got into every school to which I applied (highest-ranked being Penn). Also yielded some pretty substantial scholarships, which you can check out on myLSN. That being said, if I wanted to pursue big law, I probably would have retaken the LSAT for the fourth time. I think it all comes down to your goals, which may differ from TLS' big-law-or-bust mentality. The best advice I have is that you MUST apply early, like the day apps open. People with the same numbers as us who applied later in the cycle had FAR less success.

Good luck! PM me if you have any specific questions.

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chargers21
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Re: 3.95 / 167 / Good - Great Softs

Postby chargers21 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:08 pm

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Last edited by chargers21 on Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Neil_Gorsuch
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Re: 3.95 / 167 / Good - Great Softs

Postby Neil_Gorsuch » Fri May 05, 2017 11:57 am

Thanks to everyone for the encouragement! After establishing and following processes for answering all questions over the last month, I've gotten 177 and 178 on my last two practice tests. I'm planning on continuing to take a test a day until the June administration.

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Rigo
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Re: 3.95 / 167 / Good - Great Softs

Postby Rigo » Fri May 05, 2017 11:58 am

Neil_Gorsuch wrote:Thanks to everyone for the encouragement! After establishing and following processes for answering all questions over the last month, I've gotten 177 and 178 on my last two practice tests. I'm planning on continuing to take a test a day until the June administration.

Don't burn out.

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Neil_Gorsuch
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Re: 3.95 / 167 / Good - Great Softs

Postby Neil_Gorsuch » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:13 am

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Last edited by Neil_Gorsuch on Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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tuna_wasabi
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Re: 3.95 / 167 / Good - Great Softs

Postby tuna_wasabi » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:42 am

Neil_Gorsuch wrote:Hi everybody, sorry to say that I under performed my pre-test average - again - by a fair margin, albeit with a brutal curve that shoved me off the 170 ledge by one question - and got a 169 in June. In any event, thanks so much for encouraging me on retaking. Having reviewed the relevant stats, my chances at a number of mid-level T14 schools have improved considerably! I think that I'm all LSAT'ed out for this life so I'm going to work as hard as possible to build up my narrative capitalizing on my fairly substantial international and tech background, which I think can help tie together my softs and give me a good boost, in addition to applying as early as possible.

Thanks again!


Hi SCOTUS, are you not considering a fourth retake? You have great softs and GPA--why not take it the fourth time?

pizzagoblin
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Re: 3.95 / 167 / Good - Great Softs

Postby pizzagoblin » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:34 pm

Neil_Gorsuch wrote:Hi everybody, sorry to say that I under performed my pre-test average - again - by a fair margin, albeit with a brutal curve that shoved me off the 170 ledge by one question - and got a 169 in June. In any event, thanks so much for encouraging me on retaking. Having reviewed the relevant stats, my chances at a number of mid-level T14 schools have improved considerably! I think that I'm all LSAT'ed out for this life so I'm going to work as hard as possible to build up my narrative capitalizing on my fairly substantial international and tech background, which I think can help tie together my softs and give me a good boost, in addition to applying as early as possible.

Thanks again!


Congrats! A 169 unlocks some amazing opportunities for you. You're going to be fine. Make sure you apply SUPER early, like the day apps open.




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