3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

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cheerio
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3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby cheerio » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:43 pm

Hey everyone. I'm looking for some advice. I'm a pretty standard case of low GPA + high LSAT, but I'm also a black, first generation college student. It's difficult to find information on how much race has the potential to help me throughout the admissions process because universities are so tight-lipped about their racial stats. I've heard from peers, though, that it varies heavily from school to school. I'm looking for anyone with information on how specific T14s treat minority applicants.

Does anyone know of URMs with similar stats to mine?

Some people have told me that being black with a 172 is enough to all but guarantee quite a few T14 admissions. Conversely, I've heard from others that a low GPA is a low GPA, and schools like Harvard and Columbia have plenty of URM applicants with higher stats (meaning I won't see an advantage until lower tier T14s).

My top choice at this point is UVA, but I'm trying to put together a solid (but minimalist) list of reaches and safeties. Thanks in advance!

Blackfish
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby Blackfish » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:46 pm

AA + 172 LSAT guarantees you basically every T14 + scholarship money maybe except HYS. But even HYS is a realistic shot, just not a guarantee like the other T14s.

cheerio
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby cheerio » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:50 pm

Wow. Thank you, much appreciated.

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chargers21
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby chargers21 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:04 am

Yes, apply broadly to t14 and reap the rewards

cheerio
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby cheerio » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:16 am

While I'm here, I might as well also ask - what should I do with these extenuating circumstances? Long story short: I'm a drug addict who got my shit together and my transcript is a fucking trainwreck.

When I started college, I got straight Cs (at a liberal arts school ranked in the 25-50 range), then was in and out of school for the next 3 years, high as a kite, earning nothing but Fs and Ws. My transcript has 24 Ws and 3 Fs. I took time off, got clean, and worked as a programmer for a data firm (r, python). Finally went back to school after finding the program (NA saved my life), received straight As from then on, and was able to get my GPA up with additional community college courses.

Does this pretty much exclude me from HYS? Also, how honest should I be about why my initial college performance was so weak? Will they find my true story inspiring or off-putting? Thanks guys.

MichiganHoosier
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby MichiganHoosier » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:22 am

I'd hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I take it that 3.2 is your GPA on your transcript and not the one calculated by LSAC? I'm sorry man, but with that many Ws and Fs on a transcript, you really may have shot yourself in the foot. Unfortunately, LSAC calculates everything.

cheerio
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby cheerio » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:24 am

Nope, the 3.2 accounts for everything (including the Fs). Ws aren't counted in GPA I thought? Only WF (withdrawal failings). I have WMs (withdrawal medicals) which aren't counted in GPA calculations. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

cheerio
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby cheerio » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:30 am

Yea, just double checked this LSAC website. Ws aren't counted in GPA calculations unless they signify failure (mine don't). So while my LSAC GPA is still a calculated 3.2, the 24 Ws are definitely noticeable and ugly AF. Not sure how best to explain them on an application.

MichiganHoosier
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby MichiganHoosier » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:31 am

To be honest, I'm not the subject matter expert on this so I'm just going to let your comment hang and hope someone else picks up on it. I hope that's the case though. Best of luck!!

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somebodyelse
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby somebodyelse » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:37 am

cheerio wrote:Nope, the 3.2 accounts for everything (including the Fs). Ws aren't counted in GPA I thought? Only WF (withdrawal failings). I have WMs (withdrawal medicals) which aren't counted in GPA calculations. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


Nice. Not much to contribute by me here but there are so many cases where people get let down hard because they think their degree GPA is their LSAC GPA. Glad that's not the case here.

Mylsn is pretty bad for URMs but I see a couple informative LSN profiles:

173/3.3: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/musharraf
170/3.37: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/jlwx
170/3.4: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Wyvern10

In my opinion, apply to all the T14 and see what happens.

cheerio
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby cheerio » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:44 am

Thanks guys, this gives me a ton to work with. I'm obviously not applying until next cycle but I appreciate all of the help! If anyone else has similar transcript woes they've worked out please let me know... I'll be perusing the boards for other similar stories!

Herostratus
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby Herostratus » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:01 am

For things like this, I recommend checking LSN. This cycle, there are two URM candidates with similar numbers: http://search.lawschoolnumbers.com/user ... Applicants

The previous year there were four: http://search.lawschoolnumbers.com/user ... Applicants

Those users who submitted their admissions data were all highly successful in the mid-T14. Extenuating circumstances for your GPA or no, you'll most likely have very successful cycle.

cavalier1138
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:18 am

As to mentioning the reason behind your GPA:

You're probably going to have to do some kind of addendum to explain the excess of Ws. Just be very careful how you phrase it, because substance abuse and addiction is a particularly sensitive topic in the legal community. Emphasize the help you got and your commitment to remaining sober. You just don't want any admissions departments thinking that you're just a few stressful days away from a full-on relapse.

cheerio
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby cheerio » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:50 am

cavalier1138 wrote:As to mentioning the reason behind your GPA:

You're probably going to have to do some kind of addendum to explain the excess of Ws. Just be very careful how you phrase it, because substance abuse and addiction is a particularly sensitive topic in the legal community. Emphasize the help you got and your commitment to remaining sober. You just don't want any admissions departments thinking that you're just a few stressful days away from a full-on relapse.


Thanks. Yea, I've really been going back and forth on how prominently to discuss addiction/recovery throughout the application. My gut says to minimize (if I include it at all), for this exact reason. In my addendum I could explain away the Ws entirely with adjustment/anxiety difficulties, which isn't untrue. But then another part of me thinks that any half-truth I sugar coat instead of the raw story will seem disingenuous and vague. Also, it's truly my experience with addiction that fuels my legal interests, so in that regard I think an admission board might find it endearing and relevant. It's a key part of my ethos. Especially with my sustained recovery... coupled with a rejection of anything mind/mood altering for the rest of my life. Idk, I have a few months to mull it over.

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Rigo
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby Rigo » Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:15 am

If think you're good numbers wise . However, the bigger concern will be a tactful addendum and PS (if your addiction is playing into that at all).

cheerio wrote: My gut says to minimize (if I include it at all), for this exact reason. In my addendum I could explain away the Ws entirely with adjustment/anxiety difficulties

Just my gut reaction but this sounds like an awful way to go about it, since you will likely have adjustment/anxiety difficulties in law school. I get you're clean now and no doubt have coping strategies, but I could see adcoms questioning your fitness if you chalk your drug use up to a new and stressful environment. I don't know the best way to go about it, but just wanted to give my two cents before you went full steam ahead with this angle.

It might be prudent to even hire an admissions consultant to help you, especially since this addendum will eventually be scrutinized by the bar.

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alpha kenny body
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby alpha kenny body » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:16 pm

Blackfish wrote:AA + 172 LSAT guarantees you basically every T14 + scholarship money maybe except HYS. But even HYS is a realistic shot, just not a guarantee like the other T14s.

both of my numbers are higher and I've been YP'd everywhere. don't speak on something you don't have experience with.

Hi-So - ArshavinFan
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby Hi-So - ArshavinFan » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:59 pm

fips tedora wrote:
Blackfish wrote:AA + 172 LSAT guarantees you basically every T14 + scholarship money maybe except HYS. But even HYS is a realistic shot, just not a guarantee like the other T14s.

both of my numbers are higher and I've been YP'd everywhere. don't speak on something you don't have experience with.


The fact the both of your numbers are higher and you were yield protected everywhere proves their point in this case.

There data in the URM forum that supports why people are saying this. The fact that you were YP'd everywhere with higher numbers is highly irregular, and I'm willing to suggest that you either didn't write compelling essays or addendum (including Whyxxx?) or you have some circumstance which is making schools cautious.

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Mr_Chukes
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby Mr_Chukes » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:36 am

Hi-So - ArshavinFan wrote:
fips tedora wrote:
Blackfish wrote:AA + 172 LSAT guarantees you basically every T14 + scholarship money maybe except HYS. But even HYS is a realistic shot, just not a guarantee like the other T14s.

both of my numbers are higher and I've been YP'd everywhere. don't speak on something you don't have experience with.


The fact the both of your numbers are higher and you were yield protected everywhere proves their point in this case.

There data in the URM forum that supports why people are saying this. The fact that you were YP'd everywhere with higher numbers is highly irregular, and I'm willing to suggest that you either didn't write compelling essays or addendum (including Whyxxx?) or you have some circumstance which is making schools cautious.

+1

emmbeegee
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby emmbeegee » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:06 pm

cheerio wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:As to mentioning the reason behind your GPA:

You're probably going to have to do some kind of addendum to explain the excess of Ws. Just be very careful how you phrase it, because substance abuse and addiction is a particularly sensitive topic in the legal community. Emphasize the help you got and your commitment to remaining sober. You just don't want any admissions departments thinking that you're just a few stressful days away from a full-on relapse.


Thanks. Yea, I've really been going back and forth on how prominently to discuss addiction/recovery throughout the application. My gut says to minimize (if I include it at all), for this exact reason. In my addendum I could explain away the Ws entirely with adjustment/anxiety difficulties, which isn't untrue. But then another part of me thinks that any half-truth I sugar coat instead of the raw story will seem disingenuous and vague. Also, it's truly my experience with addiction that fuels my legal interests, so in that regard I think an admission board might find it endearing and relevant. It's a key part of my ethos. Especially with my sustained recovery... coupled with a rejection of anything mind/mood altering for the rest of my life. Idk, I have a few months to mull it over.


I tend to think the "other part of you" is right on this one. Anxiety and adjustment might easily explain one or two bad semesters, but based on the way you have described your transcript, a tactful yet full disclosure is probably more appropriate. If you can write an addendum that addresses your addiction, outlines the steps you took (and continue to take) to maintain your sobriety, and confidently expresses that you are prepared for the stress of law school, that will probably serve you much better than a half-true-sorta-vague version.

Also, check your PM :)

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PrezRand
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby PrezRand » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:18 pm

Are Harvard and Stanford even realistic for the OP?

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Lacepiece23
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby Lacepiece23 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:08 pm

That's really admirable that you made it back from addiction. Best of luck OP. Nothing to add since it's been a long time since I've though about admission and current law students would know best. Just wanted to let you know that I think it's fantastic that you were able to battle back through adversity.

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floatie
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Re: 3.2, 172, African American + First Gen

Postby floatie » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:16 pm

Re: addendums - I don't think you need to go into great depth. Simply stating that you were dealing with medical issues that impacted your grades and required you to step away from school at times will be sufficient.




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