3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

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redbulls2595

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3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby redbulls2595 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:54 pm

I have already applied to several law schools: Rutgers, Seton Hall, MSU, Miami, etc. So far, I have been accepted to Miami and still waiting to hear from the other schools (currently under review)

I am currently a senior at Rutgers and will be graduating in the top 10% of my class (Honors Student) and will be trying to attend law school in the fall 2017 year.

What do you think my chances would be at getting scholarship offers?

With my LSAT score, my PT score literally ranged between 165-170, even got a 171 after months and months of practicing but I was frankly surprised by my actual score and didn't want to take the LSAT again for a third time.

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poptart123

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby poptart123 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:55 pm

If you've hit 171 and currently are sitting at 154 then there is no excuse to retake.

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trebekismyhero

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby trebekismyhero » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:58 pm

You know you have to retake, right? Especially if you were PTing around 10-15 points higher. Right now your best options are going to a TT with very little money. That would be terrible for your future, financially and probably professionally. 5 or 6 more points and you can go to all those schools for free. 10 more points and you can go to a T1 in your preferred region for free and in at some t14 schools. 15 more points and you will get money from some t14 schools. Do not go to school with a 154

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby redbulls2595 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:31 pm

trebekismyhero wrote:You know you have to retake, right? Especially if you were PTing around 10-15 points higher. Right now your best options are going to a TT with very little money. That would be terrible for your future, financially and probably professionally. 5 or 6 more points and you can go to all those schools for free. 10 more points and you can go to a T1 in your preferred region for free and in at some t14 schools. 15 more points and you will get money from some t14 schools. Do not go to school with a 154



I was debating on retaking the test for that reason as well, but I just don't think that I will do any better than I did the second time. I'm not trying to sell myself short or be negative but my last two LSATs scores were in the 150s and I don't want to spend more months on studying again.

I do have a solid job offer after graduation with a government agency in a entry-level position, but I have been thinking about law school for a while now.

Another question is: if I attend a school like Rutgers, Miami, or even MSU and get a high GPA, would it still minimize my chances at getting employment in a law firm or in other legal areas simply because of what school I attend?

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby Mikey » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:38 pm

You have a really nice GPA, and you were PTing at a good range and got a significantly lower score than your PTs. No matter how much you don't want to retake, everyone will tell you to because in your case, it really is the best thing to do.

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trebekismyhero

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby trebekismyhero » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:43 pm

redbulls2595 wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:You know you have to retake, right? Especially if you were PTing around 10-15 points higher. Right now your best options are going to a TT with very little money. That would be terrible for your future, financially and probably professionally. 5 or 6 more points and you can go to all those schools for free. 10 more points and you can go to a T1 in your preferred region for free and in at some t14 schools. 15 more points and you will get money from some t14 schools. Do not go to school with a 154



I was debating on retaking the test for that reason as well, but I just don't think that I will do any better than I did the second time. I'm not trying to sell myself short or be negative but my last two LSATs scores were in the 150s and I don't want to spend more months on studying again.

I do have a solid job offer after graduation with a government agency in a entry-level position, but I have been thinking about law school for a while now.

Another question is: if I attend a school like Rutgers, Miami, or even MSU and get a high GPA, would it still minimize my chances at getting employment in a law firm or in other legal areas simply because of what school I attend?


First, you are absolutely selling yourself short. If you were PTing that high, I can almost guarantee you will do better. Second, if you already have a job offer then you have zero reason not to sit out a cycle and retake. Third, going to those schools will minimize you chances no matter what. Students at the top of their class at those schools struggle to get jobs that students below median at t14 schools get. And there is no guarantee you will be at the top of your class at those schools. It is a lot easier to increase your LSAT than it is to place at the top of your law school class, no matter what the school

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby redbulls2595 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:55 pm

trebekismyhero wrote:
redbulls2595 wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:You know you have to retake, right? Especially if you were PTing around 10-15 points higher. Right now your best options are going to a TT with very little money. That would be terrible for your future, financially and probably professionally. 5 or 6 more points and you can go to all those schools for free. 10 more points and you can go to a T1 in your preferred region for free and in at some t14 schools. 15 more points and you will get money from some t14 schools. Do not go to school with a 154



I was debating on retaking the test for that reason as well, but I just don't think that I will do any better than I did the second time. I'm not trying to sell myself short or be negative but my last two LSATs scores were in the 150s and I don't want to spend more months on studying again.

I do have a solid job offer after graduation with a government agency in a entry-level position, but I have been thinking about law school for a while now.

Another question is: if I attend a school like Rutgers, Miami, or even MSU and get a high GPA, would it still minimize my chances at getting employment in a law firm or in other legal areas simply because of what school I attend?


First, you are absolutely selling yourself short. If you were PTing that high, I can almost guarantee you will do better. Second, if you already have a job offer then you have zero reason not to sit out a cycle and retake. Third, going to those schools will minimize you chances no matter what. Students at the top of their class at those schools struggle to get jobs that students below median at t14 schools get. And there is no guarantee you will be at the top of your class at those schools. It is a lot easier to increase your LSAT than it is to place at the top of your law school class, no matter what the school



Thanks for the feedback. I'll think about that when I get all of my decisions from the law schools and then I'll have a definite picture of what to do.

redbulls2595

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby redbulls2595 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:57 pm

Mikey wrote:You have a really nice GPA, and you were PTing at a good range and got a significantly lower score than your PTs. No matter how much you don't want to retake, everyone will tell you to because in your case, it really is the best thing to do.



Thanks for the feedback! I was considering retaking the LSAT but I don't know yet. Georgetown invited me for an interview with them (which I accepted) so hopefully I can have a shot!

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby BigZuck » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:58 pm

You think you'll get a high GPA in law school because you had a high GPA in college. But law school is way different. Basically only 6-8 exams you take your 1L year are all that matter, so the margin for error is really small. What if you catch the flu? What if you fundamentally misunderstood an important concept? What if you misread the prompt? All those things could tank just one exam, which could tank your entire GPA. Plus, exams are graded blindly, so it's a lot closer to a standardized exam than it is to the semester long exams you're likely used to in High School and College. Plus you don't get to pick and choose your professors. Plus it's curved. Plus professors are usually way more likely to hide then all during the semester than to give you the skills to succeed on their exam.

You don't know how well you'll do on a law school exam until you take a law school exam.

redbulls2595

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby redbulls2595 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:02 pm

BigZuck wrote:You think you'll get a high GPA in law school because you had a high GPA in college. But law school is way different. Basically only 6-8 exams you take your 1L year are all that matter, so the margin for error is really small. What if you catch the flu? What if you fundamentally misunderstood an important concept? What if you misread the prompt? All those things could tank just one exam, which could tank your entire GPA. Plus, exams are graded blindly, so it's a lot closer to a standardized exam than it is to the semester long exams you're likely used to in High School and College. Plus you don't get to pick and choose your professors. Plus it's curved. Plus professors are usually way more likely to hide then all during the semester than to give you the skills to succeed on their exam.

You don't know how well you'll do on a law school exam until you take a law school exam.



I didn't say that I am going to get a high or good GPA. I was asking that question as a hypothetical.

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby BigZuck » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:04 pm

redbulls2595 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:You think you'll get a high GPA in law school because you had a high GPA in college. But law school is way different. Basically only 6-8 exams you take your 1L year are all that matter, so the margin for error is really small. What if you catch the flu? What if you fundamentally misunderstood an important concept? What if you misread the prompt? All those things could tank just one exam, which could tank your entire GPA. Plus, exams are graded blindly, so it's a lot closer to a standardized exam than it is to the semester long exams you're likely used to in High School and College. Plus you don't get to pick and choose your professors. Plus it's curved. Plus professors are usually way more likely to hide then all during the semester than to give you the skills to succeed on their exam.

You don't know how well you'll do on a law school exam until you take a law school exam.



I didn't say that I am going to get a high or good GPA. I was asking that question as a hypothetical.

I didn't say you said it, I said you think it. Which is true.

ETA: Because everyone thinks they'll do well in law school. Especially "reverse splitters"

redbulls2595

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby redbulls2595 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:08 pm

BigZuck wrote:
redbulls2595 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:You think you'll get a high GPA in law school because you had a high GPA in college. But law school is way different. Basically only 6-8 exams you take your 1L year are all that matter, so the margin for error is really small. What if you catch the flu? What if you fundamentally misunderstood an important concept? What if you misread the prompt? All those things could tank just one exam, which could tank your entire GPA. Plus, exams are graded blindly, so it's a lot closer to a standardized exam than it is to the semester long exams you're likely used to in High School and College. Plus you don't get to pick and choose your professors. Plus it's curved. Plus professors are usually way more likely to hide then all during the semester than to give you the skills to succeed on their exam.

You don't know how well you'll do on a law school exam until you take a law school exam.



I didn't say that I am going to get a high or good GPA. I was asking that question as a hypothetical.

I didn't say you said it, I said you think it. Which is true.


I know law school is completely different from undergrad..I actually have a former supervisor who is in law school right now and talked to students at Rutgers law about it so I know what to expect with law school. I also took several law classes - criminal law/contracts and commercial (even though it's not completely in depth as it is in law school) but I understand what I'm going to be learning for 1L.

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pancakes3

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby pancakes3 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:44 pm

think long term. think about what your career goals are. think about debt servicing. think about employment prospects.

grades??

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby grades?? » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:50 pm

My girlfriend had almost identical scores and gpa. We hadn't discovered this site yet and she didn't retake. This was a seriously life ruining decision for her. She has 300k in debt from a decent top 30ish law school, top 10% and no job lined up. She went to school in the market she wanted to be, hustled her ass off and worked for 2 firms during 2l and 3l. She has payments due soon and she is totally at a loss. Don't be in her position.

It's really simple to just retake. You have a great gpa. If you even just get a 167, you are looking at low t14s with legit cash. You owe it to yourself. You can pm me if you want more details but you are legitimately a f-ing idiot if you waste that gpa.

redbulls2595

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby redbulls2595 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:03 pm

grades?? wrote:My girlfriend had almost identical scores and gpa. We hadn't discovered this site yet and she didn't retake. This was a seriously life ruining decision for her. She has 300k in debt from a decent top 30ish law school, top 10% and no job lined up. She went to school in the market she wanted to be, hustled her ass off and worked for 2 firms during 2l and 3l. She has payments due soon and she is totally at a loss. Don't be in her position.

It's really simple to just retake. You have a great gpa. If you even just get a 167, you are looking at low t14s with legit cash. You owe it to yourself. You can pm me if you want more details but you are legitimately a f-ing idiot if you waste that gpa.



I sent you a PM! Thanks!

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby Nebby » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:14 pm

Plz retake

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby somedeadman » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:27 pm

How did you study? How did you take practice tests (all 5 timed sections, no breaks, etc.)?

redbulls2595

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby redbulls2595 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:30 pm

somedeadman wrote:How did you study? How did you take practice tests (all 5 timed sections, no breaks, etc.)?


Initially, I used the PowerScore books to study - then I used practice drills to get used to the concepts. Afterwards, I started using practice tests (beginning - took a break after each timed section to get used to timing / after like 5 practice tests, then I did all 5 sections with no breaks with additional practice tests)

But when it comes to standarized testing, I ALWAYS second guess myself - never really go with with my gut because I start to think too much into several questions

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby somedeadman » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:32 pm

redbulls2595 wrote:
somedeadman wrote:How did you study? How did you take practice tests (all 5 timed sections, no breaks, etc.)?


Initially, I used the PowerScore books to study - then I used practice drills to get used to the concepts. Afterwards, I started using practice tests (beginning - took a break after each timed section to get used to timing / after like 5 practice tests, then I did all 5 sections with no breaks with additional practice tests)

But when it comes to standarized testing, I ALWAYS second guess myself - never really go with with my gut because I start to think too much into several questions

How many practice tests have you done? Did you BR your tests?

redbulls2595

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby redbulls2595 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:35 pm

somedeadman wrote:
redbulls2595 wrote:
somedeadman wrote:How did you study? How did you take practice tests (all 5 timed sections, no breaks, etc.)?


Initially, I used the PowerScore books to study - then I used practice drills to get used to the concepts. Afterwards, I started using practice tests (beginning - took a break after each timed section to get used to timing / after like 5 practice tests, then I did all 5 sections with no breaks with additional practice tests)

But when it comes to standarized testing, I ALWAYS second guess myself - never really go with with my gut because I start to think too much into several questions

How many practice tests have you done? Did you BR your tests?


I bought two prepbooks that had 20 practice tests each - 40 in total. & no, I only check my answers after I finish scoring the entire practice test and I'll go back and see where I went wrong with the question.

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby somedeadman » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:44 pm

redbulls2595 wrote:
somedeadman wrote:
redbulls2595 wrote:
somedeadman wrote:How did you study? How did you take practice tests (all 5 timed sections, no breaks, etc.)?


Initially, I used the PowerScore books to study - then I used practice drills to get used to the concepts. Afterwards, I started using practice tests (beginning - took a break after each timed section to get used to timing / after like 5 practice tests, then I did all 5 sections with no breaks with additional practice tests)

But when it comes to standarized testing, I ALWAYS second guess myself - never really go with with my gut because I start to think too much into several questions

How many practice tests have you done? Did you BR your tests?


I bought two prepbooks that had 20 practice tests each - 40 in total. & no, I only check my answers after I finish scoring the entire practice test and I'll go back and see where I went wrong with the question.

Which preptests were they?

It's pretty obvious you owe yourself a retake. In the future, before checking your answers, go over every problem you were not 100% sure you got right. Then grade it, and go over the problems again, as well as the ones you got wrong.

redbulls2595

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby redbulls2595 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:47 pm

somedeadman wrote:
redbulls2595 wrote:
somedeadman wrote:
redbulls2595 wrote:
somedeadman wrote:How did you study? How did you take practice tests (all 5 timed sections, no breaks, etc.)?


Initially, I used the PowerScore books to study - then I used practice drills to get used to the concepts. Afterwards, I started using practice tests (beginning - took a break after each timed section to get used to timing / after like 5 practice tests, then I did all 5 sections with no breaks with additional practice tests)

But when it comes to standarized testing, I ALWAYS second guess myself - never really go with with my gut because I start to think too much into several questions

How many practice tests have you done? Did you BR your tests?


I bought two prepbooks that had 20 practice tests each - 40 in total. & no, I only check my answers after I finish scoring the entire practice test and I'll go back and see where I went wrong with the question.

Which preptests were they?

It's pretty obvious you owe yourself a retake. In the future, before checking your answers, go over every problem you were not 100% sure you got right. Then grade it, and go over the problems again, as well as the ones you got wrong.


I'll consider the retake when I get my decision letters from the schools so I can kinda get a sense of what options I have with the score I have.

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby somedeadman » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:52 pm

redbulls2595 wrote:
grades?? wrote:My girlfriend had almost identical scores and gpa. We hadn't discovered this site yet and she didn't retake. This was a seriously life ruining decision for her. She has 300k in debt from a decent top 30ish law school, top 10% and no job lined up. She went to school in the market she wanted to be, hustled her ass off and worked for 2 firms during 2l and 3l. She has payments due soon and she is totally at a loss. Don't be in her position.

It's really simple to just retake. You have a great gpa. If you even just get a 167, you are looking at low t14s with legit cash. You owe it to yourself. You can pm me if you want more details but you are legitimately a f-ing idiot if you waste that gpa.



I sent you a PM! Thanks!

This dude knows what he's talking about.

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby zeglo » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:34 pm

.
Last edited by zeglo on Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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GFox345

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Re: 3.97 GPA 154 LSAT

Postby GFox345 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:44 pm

Frankly, I don't even understand how you can go from PTing in the high 160s and get a 154 on the actual test. That's like literally a 15-20 question swing to go even from 165 to 154, let alone 171 to 154. Something must have gone catastrophically wrong. Did you have serious testing anxiety? Did you bubble a section wrong? I mean we're not talking a typical bad day here. If something like that happened obviously retake.



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