Rutgers law

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eli2015

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Rutgers law

Postby eli2015 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:14 pm

144 LSAT 3.37 GPA.

I don't know if it makes a difference or not, but I also have work experience, 10yrs of it t be exact. The work experience is mostly customer service related sales, banking etc...

I checked LSN and my GPA is above their median, but not sure if it makes a difference with such a terrible LSAT score.

cavalier1138

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Re: Rutgers law

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:30 pm

You should not go to any school that will accept you with a 144 LSAT. And Rutgers won't accept you.

What are your career goals? Why do you want to go to law school? Was this your first LSAT attempt?

eli2015

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Re: Rutgers law

Postby eli2015 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:36 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:You should not go to any school that will accept you with a 144 LSAT. And Rutgers won't accept you.

What are your career goals? Why do you want to go to law school? Was this your first LSAT attempt?


No, this was my 2nd attempt. I am not a very good test taker, although that is still no excuse. Rutgers will not accept me even though my gpa is above their median?

cavalier1138

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Re: Rutgers law

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:40 pm

eli2015 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:You should not go to any school that will accept you with a 144 LSAT. And Rutgers won't accept you.

What are your career goals? Why do you want to go to law school? Was this your first LSAT attempt?


No, this was my 2nd attempt. I am not a very good test taker, although that is still no excuse. Rutgers will not accept me even though my gpa is above their median?


None of the Rutgers law schools will take you, because your score takes you out of the running for any legitimate law school. You could have a 4.0, and that would still be the case. A 144 is simply too low for you to be competitive anywhere that isn't a scam.

And without knowing your career goals and reasons for pursuing law, it's hard to say whether you should even be considering Rutgers in the first place. What are your career goals, and why do you want to go to law school?

eli2015

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Re: Rutgers law

Postby eli2015 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:50 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
eli2015 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:You should not go to any school that will accept you with a 144 LSAT. And Rutgers won't accept you.

What are your career goals? Why do you want to go to law school? Was this your first LSAT attempt?


No, this was my 2nd attempt. I am not a very good test taker, although that is still no excuse. Rutgers will not accept me even though my gpa is above their median?


None of the Rutgers law schools will take you, because your score takes you out of the running for any legitimate law school. You could have a 4.0, and that would still be the case. A 144 is simply too low for you to be competitive anywhere that isn't a scam.

And without knowing your career goals and reasons for pursuing law, it's hard to say whether you should even be considering Rutgers in the first place. What are your career goals, and why do you want to go to law school?


I want to practice international law, strictly something in the international business sector. I want to attend law school because law is my passion, law is something I have been fascinated with even as a child, as my father was a lawyer.

So what should I do now in your opinion, law school is everything to me, so not attending law school because I was defeated by a test is not an option.

cavalier1138

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Re: Rutgers law

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:57 pm

eli2015 wrote:I want to practice international law, strictly something in the international business sector. I want to attend law school because law is my passion, law is something I have been fascinated with even as a child, as my father was a lawyer.

So what should I do now in your opinion, law school is everything to me, so not attending law school because I was defeated by a test is not an option.


The type of law you're talking about is only practiced at large firms. Those large firms are only realistically accessible from the top schools in the nation. Even if you did have a good enough LSAT to get into Rutgers, you would have little to no chance of ever practicing any form of international business law (whether it's in litigation, M&A, whatever).

More importantly, you're speaking in these vague terms of "fascination" and "passion". And that would be fine if you were fresh out of undergrad and really weren't sure what you wanted to do. But you're older, and you need to have a more defined vision of why you want to go to law school, because this is professional training, not just another graduate degree. If you aren't specifically targeting schools based on your career goals (and based on your OP, you clearly aren't), you haven't spent enough time thinking about those goals and how to achieve them.

And finally, I know this will be a bitter pill to swallow, but you may not be cut out for the profession. I'm not saying that people with crappy LSATs don't sometimes end up being good lawyers. But the LSAT determines where you go to school and is a pretty good indicator of how you'll do there. I get that this is a field that you're very interested in, but I'd say the same thing to anyone who was really excited about being a doctor and couldn't pass a basic biology course. There are core analytical and reasoning skills that are required before you even begin a legal education; if you don't have them and can't develop them, you should find a different career.

eli2015

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Re: Rutgers law

Postby eli2015 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:16 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
eli2015 wrote:I want to practice international law, strictly something in the international business sector. I want to attend law school because law is my passion, law is something I have been fascinated with even as a child, as my father was a lawyer.

So what should I do now in your opinion, law school is everything to me, so not attending law school because I was defeated by a test is not an option.


The type of law you're talking about is only practiced at large firms. Those large firms are only realistically accessible from the top schools in the nation. Even if you did have a good enough LSAT to get into Rutgers, you would have little to no chance of ever practicing any form of international business law (whether it's in litigation, M&A, whatever).

More importantly, you're speaking in these vague terms of "fascination" and "passion". And that would be fine if you were fresh out of undergrad and really weren't sure what you wanted to do. But you're older, and you need to have a more defined vision of why you want to go to law school, because this is professional training, not just another graduate degree. If you aren't specifically targeting schools based on your career goals (and based on your OP, you clearly aren't), you haven't spent enough time thinking about those goals and how to achieve them.

And finally, I know this will be a bitter pill to swallow, but you may not be cut out for the profession. I'm not saying that people with crappy LSATs don't sometimes end up being good lawyers. But the LSAT determines where you go to school and is a pretty good indicator of how you'll do there. I get that this is a field that you're very interested in, but I'd say the same thing to anyone who was really excited about being a doctor and couldn't pass a basic biology course. There are core analytical and reasoning skills that are required before you even begin a legal education; if you don't have them and can't develop them, you should find a different career.


Hey,
Thanks for your feedback and advice, I am a year out of undergrad, so not too stale yet. Also, before being defeated by this test, I did have target schools that were geared towards what I wanted to practice, however plan A did not work, so now it is time for plan B. I also do not think in anyway that one test can define how successful a person will be in a specific field, so saying that an individual is not cut out for law school, in this case, based on your knowledge of my LSAT, is not plausible. What you are basing your opinions off of is the numbers game that law schools have created, which is not completely false, however this test is absolutely no where near a predictor of my potential. Also, everyone has a starting point, unfortunately my starting point is somewhat further back, however I still have the chance to finish strong. If worse comes to worse, I will apply to a lower tier school, and transfer out. There is no chance I am giving up on my journey to law school, I will work twice as hard until my visions become reality. Also, why is my GPA so easily dismissed at a chance to attend rutgers?

cavalier1138

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Re: Rutgers law

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:28 pm

eli2015 wrote:Hey,
Thanks for your feedback and advice, I am a year out of undergrad, so not too stale yet. Also, before being defeated by this test, I did have target schools that were geared towards what I wanted to practice, however plan A did not work, so now it is time for plan B. I also do not think in anyway that one test can define how successful a person will be in a specific field, so saying that an individual is not cut out for law school, in this case, based on your knowledge of my LSAT, is not plausible. What you are basing your opinions off of is the numbers game that law schools have created, which is not completely false, however this test is absolutely no where near a predictor of my potential. Also, everyone has a starting point, unfortunately my starting point is somewhat further back, however I still have the chance to finish strong. If worse comes to worse, I will apply to a lower tier school, and transfer out. There is no chance I am giving up on my journey to law school, I will work twice as hard until my visions become reality. Also, why is my GPA so easily dismissed at a chance to attend rutgers?


Ok, so it sounds like you don't have 10 years of work experience. You have worked part-time jobs for 10 years or so. Which is fine, but that's not work experience when it comes to the application.

And you don't appear to have quite understood my post. There is no "Plan B" for what you want to do. Unless your "Plan B" is to practice in a small-to-midsize law firm in NJ (assuming that you can get work as a lawyer after school), Rutgers will not help you with your planned career. But if you meant "Plan B" as a different way to get into international corporate practice, you are deluding yourself, because there is no alternate pathway. More importantly, if Rutgers was "Plan A", you had a shit plan.

Like I said, the LSAT isn't a perfect predictor, but it's a pretty good one. And a 144 is a very, very low score. It means that you were worse than 75% of takers. In terms of letter grades, that's a massive "F". I appreciate all the canned inspirational one-liners that you threw out, but they don't mean anything when it comes to establishing that you would somehow overcome your LSAT to go to a halfway-decent school, overcome your bad test-taking abilities to do well on the exams at that school, and overcome the overwhelming odds against scoring the kind of job you want out of the kind of school you're targeting. I would not be saying this if you had even broken 150 on the LSAT. But if your highest score after two attempts (and all the studying that came between those attempts) is 144, then I do not believe that you will be able to handle law school exams, much less placing well enough in your class to get the job you want. Again, think of this like med school: would you say that the MCAT can't define whether or not someone will make a decent doctor?

And I've ignored your GPA because it's not enough to offset your LSAT. A school will not look at your 3.37 and mentally add 10 points to your LSAT score. The LSAT is given more weight, period. You may not like it, but that's the way this works.
Last edited by cavalier1138 on Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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pancakes3

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Re: Rutgers law

Postby pancakes3 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:32 pm

stop saying you were defeated by the test. you weren't defeated by the test. you can take that test as many times as you want. just do better on the LSAT and you'll be fine. that's the answer and you know it. your refusal to come to terms with that is what's "defeating" you.

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studyingeveryday

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Re: Rutgers law

Postby studyingeveryday » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:27 pm

How much did you actually study? Also, more importantly, how did you study? It's possible you did not study in the correct way (ex. not enough practice tests and drills, you tried memorization, etc.). With only two attempts and a score like this, I strongly urge you to study and try again if you really want to go to law school (obligatory edit to say that you should not go to law school with that score). Assuming you need to revamp your studying, TLS will be a great resource to help you.

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studyingeveryday

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Re: Rutgers law

Postby studyingeveryday » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:34 pm

Also, you mentioned transferring--don't to go to any school you intend to transfer out of. You won't be the only one hoping to do so, and not everyone will be high enough in the class to actually do so.



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