163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

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CPAlawHopefu

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby CPAlawHopefu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:15 am

Clearly wrote:
CPAlawHopefu wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:I did answer him, you just didn't pay attention. And it is not just about the scholarship, it is about going to school in a region you plan on practicing. Outside of the t14, it is not like undergrad where you can go anywhere. OP and others should know that and also be told that taking on a lot of debt when the most likely outcome is a $60k salary is not a good idea especially when a couple points can save someone literally tens of thousands of dollars. It is not about getting a 170+, it is about maximizing your scholarship opportunities at schools you are applying.


My bad. I reread the thread and I see that you are the only one that actually cared to answer his question.

cavalier1138 wrote:
CPAlawHopefu wrote:OP didn't ask whether he'll get scholly from the listed schools, nor did he ask anything about his chance of landing his dream job from these schools. It's been a week since he made this thread and not a single person here answered the actual question asked and I see something grossly wrong with the pattern here. Anyone with 170+ LSAT, people are willing to answer questions. But dare you ask a question with anything less and you get spammed with "retake!!!! THIS DOESN'T EVEN WARRANT AN ANSWER!!". Why the discrimination? Check the forum title, it says "What are my chances", not "Should I go to these schools for my dream job". Your concern is more befitting to the other forum "Choosing a Law School", which isn't this one. TLSers should seriously drop this BS behavior.


That's right, the OP didn't ask that. Which is why I noted that both of you were ignoring a major point.

The OP was given plenty of answers that evaluated their chances at admission. Adding information to tell them that going to any of the chosen schools at sticker price is financial suicide is not a bad thing.

I get that someone's clearly made you feel bad in the past for not scoring high enough, but since everyone talking about money is literally only looking out for the OP's financial future, it's more than a little childish to lash out at all the mean ol' TLS posters. Why do you think people are universally giving the same advice? Do you think they're trying to thin out the competition at GW?


No, OP wasn't given "plenty of answers" other than the one by trebekismyhero that I missed earlier. Most of all he got was why he shouldn't attend those schools at sticker instead of getting his questions answered.

"what are my chances of getting in to xyz schools"
"you shouldn't go there at sticker"
"ok but what are my chances?"
"you are making a bad decision by going there at sticker"
"i understand but I still want to know my chances"
"you aren't listening. you should retake."

*facepalm*

Again, going back to what I've said earlier, OP wasn't asking for anyone's advice on what schools to attend. It's frustrating when someone creates a thread to ask a simple question only to be bombarded with completely irrelevant points (good intent or not, most people here weren't answering any of his questions). Everyone here already understands that going to a non-T14 school at sticker is almost always a poor decision, but no one here wants their thread spammed with the same crap that they have to scroll down through on every other thread here. Leave opinion to yourself unless asked of it, he never asked for it.


I think you're giving random joined this week posters too much credit. The fact that these schools are still full of people paying sticker is plenty of evidence for the belief that someone who just joined TLS and asked about schools scattered about the country might not know that going to these schools with those numbers is a recipe for a bad life. I strongly disagree with your assertion that everyone here already knows that non-t-14 full freight law school is a poor decision, especially those who just joined the site. If he did, he'd be asking different questions, like is a december retake too late.

When I joined this site I had a 164 and a 2.89 and was asking about my chances to fordham and cardozo, I had no idea that the job market is what it is, and these schools are what they are. People informed me about things that are counter-intuitive to people who are caught up in the belief that lawyers make money, like how beating 9/10 people on the LSAT with a 164 was...bad? Thank god they didn't wait around for me to ask these questions because I wouldn't have, I would have gone with my gut and gone to Fordham. I pushed back, but after being informed of such information that no one would ever think to ask (like the bi-modal salary distribution i posted), I made many more threads about improving my outcome, I retook, got my GPA up, followed TLS for admissions advice, ended up at a great school, followed TLS for law school advice, got good grades and a great job. People rubbed me the wrong way when I got here but this website saved my life with the same advice this guy is getting dude, because they know what they are talking about.

You're mad that we're clogging up a thread with valid information that people should have when making a six figure decision, but I think you're looking at this all wrong. I'd be infuriated if this thread was just people answering the exact question posed without providing this information, that'd be a tacit endorsement of these schools at or near sticker, and when you consider that there is someone on the other end of this thread who prob doesn't understand how bad that is, you're literally contributing to seriously fucking up someone's life. I think people can be rude about it sometimes, and I think that hurts the cause, which is why I try to be friendly when providing this information, but even if people are rude, you can't be ignorant, look at that salary distrubtion, get pointed to law school transparency and fail to follow up and do your own research even if people are dicks, and in that sense, they're still contributing to helping people.

TL;DR: I'll rustle feathers and risk clogging the forum and even offending the occasional poster like you, if it saves one uninformed person from a life of poverty because they didn't know how bad it was, or that retaking could have helped. Sorry.



Uh..... no. By only answering the questions asked, you'd just be... answering the questions asked. How does that show a "tacit endorsement"? I don't understand your reasoning.

look at my previous post.

CPAlawHopefu wrote:
Boston University - Slight Reach
Boston College - Target
Notre Dame - Slight Reach
William & Mary - Target
George Washington - Reach
Emory - Reach
University of Illinois - Urbana Champaign - Safety
University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill - Safety

You should also look at schools like Fordham and WUSTL and apply to some strong strong flagships like Indiana, Iowa and Minnesota. These are all within your range.


I didn't provide any advice. I simply answered what the OP wanted to know. Does my post suggest that I in any shape or form endorse attending any of these schools at sticker?


And my beef isn't with the people who are willing to add in a piece of advice. The people who I have issue with are the ones that spew out some pseudo-helpful tip without showing any effort to answer the actual questions asked, like this:

Clearly wrote:Please buckle down and retake the LSAT.


^^first post after OP, does not answer OP's question

Clearly wrote:No, I think it's a bad idea to go to any of these without the type of scholarship that score won't get you anyway. At sticker you're gonna pay several thousand a month in payments for a decade or more, and none of these schools place well into jobs that can meet that payment.
Good news though, you just have to get a lot better at a multiple choice test and you can go to one of these for free or a better school if you want!


^^ attempt to be helpful but again does not again answer OP's question for the second time.


Clearly wrote:Are you independently wealthy? That work is largely done by firms that either don't hire from these schools, or hire no more than 30% of the students from these schools. Those are awful odds. If you don't get that job, your next best option prob pays around 50k. You are either going to rely on government programs to pay that back, or you're independently wealthy.

OR you can ace a multiple choice test, and go to a school that all but guarantees a big firm job, or take your chances at one of these schools for less money! It's a multiple choice test man! Trust me, things aren't as rosy as you apparently think, but all hope is not lost. I had a 164 - 2.9 gpa, and I studied my ass off to get to 164. Then I sat out a year, kept working, slayed the lsat, went to a t10, got my 180k. It may have been the best decision I've ever made, statistically the modal outcome from any of those schools is 35-50k a year income. Some chunk will be higher, but thats what you're looking at. There is no in between. You either make 50k or 180k. For you, the difference is a few questions on a multiple choice test. Don't be stupid.


^^ OP asks the question for the third time but completely ignores the questions asked yet again and instead give advice that was never asked.


I understand you are trying to be helpful, but usually the best way to be helpful is by answering the questions asked. Try that next time.

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby lavarman84 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:30 am

CPAlawHopefu wrote:Uh..... no. By only answering the questions asked, you'd just be... answering the questions asked. How does that show a "tacit endorsement"? I don't understand your reasoning.

look at my previous post.

CPAlawHopefu wrote:
Boston University - Slight Reach
Boston College - Target
Notre Dame - Slight Reach
William & Mary - Target
George Washington - Reach
Emory - Reach
University of Illinois - Urbana Champaign - Safety
University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill - Safety

You should also look at schools like Fordham and WUSTL and apply to some strong strong flagships like Indiana, Iowa and Minnesota. These are all within your range.


I didn't provide any advice. I simply answered what the OP wanted to know. Does my post suggest that I in any shape or form endorse attending any of these schools at sticker?


Yes, it does. You also offer bad advice.

I'd much rather see posts like Clearly's warning people of the dangers of making a wrong decision at this stage in their lives than your completely uninformed advice. Frankly, if the OP really wants to know what his (or her) chances are, (s)he can just use mylsn. Since (s)he's posting on this forum, people are going to try and give him (or her) what they believe to be the best advice.
Last edited by lavarman84 on Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

CPAlawHopefu

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby CPAlawHopefu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:33 am

lawman84 wrote:
CPAlawHopefu wrote:Uh..... no. By only answering the questions asked, you'd just be... answering the questions asked. How does that show a "tacit endorsement"? I don't understand your reasoning.

look at my previous post.

CPAlawHopefu wrote:
Boston University - Slight Reach
Boston College - Target
Notre Dame - Slight Reach
William & Mary - Target
George Washington - Reach
Emory - Reach
University of Illinois - Urbana Champaign - Safety
University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill - Safety

You should also look at schools like Fordham and WUSTL and apply to some strong strong flagships like Indiana, Iowa and Minnesota. These are all within your range.


I didn't provide any advice. I simply answered what the OP wanted to know. Does my post suggest that I in any shape or form endorse attending any of these schools at sticker?


Yes, it does. You also offer bad advice.

I'd much rather see posts like Clearly's warning people of the dangers of making a wrong decision at this stage in their lives than your completely uninformed advice. Frankly, if the OP really wants to know what his chances are, (s)he can just use mylsn. Since he's posting on this forum, people are going to try and give him (or her) what they believe to be the best advice.


How can my advice be bad if no advice were ever given by me? lol

lavarman84

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby lavarman84 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:35 am

CPAlawHopefu wrote:How can my advice be bad if no advice were ever given by me? lol


You should also look at schools like Fordham and WUSTL and apply to some strong strong flagships like Indiana, Iowa and Minnesota. These are all within your range.


That's not advice?

CPAlawHopefu

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby CPAlawHopefu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:39 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
CPAlawHopefu wrote:No, OP wasn't given "plenty of answers" other than the one by trebekismyhero that I missed earlier. Most of all he got was why he shouldn't attend those schools at sticker instead of getting his questions answered.

"what are my chances of getting in to xyz schools"
"you shouldn't go there at sticker"
"ok but what are my chances?"
"you are making a bad decision by going there at sticker"
"i understand but I still want to know my chances"
"you aren't listening. you should retake."

*facepalm*

Again, going back to what I've said earlier, OP wasn't asking for anyone's advice on what schools to attend. It's frustrating when someone creates a thread to ask a simple question only to be bombarded with completely irrelevant points (good intent or not, most people here weren't answering any of his questions). Everyone here already understands that going to a non-T14 school at sticker is almost always a poor decision, but no one here wants their thread spammed with the same crap that they have to scroll down through on every other thread here. Leave opinion to yourself unless asked of it, he never asked for it.


If everyone already defaulted to that opinion, this board wouldn't exist. If you want, do a forum search for variations on the phrase "not retaking" to find a nice long list of people who have convinced themselves that they'll be fine paying sticker at a mediocre-or-worse school because lawyers all make six figures as soon as they get their JD.

Imagine that the OP had asked, "What are my chances at getting to do some scuba diving at [x] location?" Would you have deemed all replies telling them that [x] is infested with deadly jellyfish to be "irrelevant"?


The correct way to answer that question would be either "Scuba diving is vibrant/allowed at x location, you should be able to do it" or "Scuba diving at x location is very limited/disallowed so your chance of scuba diving is unlikely."

Now had the question been "Should I scuba dive at x location" then those replies would be perfectly valid. But it wasn't. And neither was OP's.

cavalier1138

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:42 am

CPAlawHopefu wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
CPAlawHopefu wrote:No, OP wasn't given "plenty of answers" other than the one by trebekismyhero that I missed earlier. Most of all he got was why he shouldn't attend those schools at sticker instead of getting his questions answered.

"what are my chances of getting in to xyz schools"
"you shouldn't go there at sticker"
"ok but what are my chances?"
"you are making a bad decision by going there at sticker"
"i understand but I still want to know my chances"
"you aren't listening. you should retake."

*facepalm*

Again, going back to what I've said earlier, OP wasn't asking for anyone's advice on what schools to attend. It's frustrating when someone creates a thread to ask a simple question only to be bombarded with completely irrelevant points (good intent or not, most people here weren't answering any of his questions). Everyone here already understands that going to a non-T14 school at sticker is almost always a poor decision, but no one here wants their thread spammed with the same crap that they have to scroll down through on every other thread here. Leave opinion to yourself unless asked of it, he never asked for it.


If everyone already defaulted to that opinion, this board wouldn't exist. If you want, do a forum search for variations on the phrase "not retaking" to find a nice long list of people who have convinced themselves that they'll be fine paying sticker at a mediocre-or-worse school because lawyers all make six figures as soon as they get their JD.

Imagine that the OP had asked, "What are my chances at getting to do some scuba diving at [x] location?" Would you have deemed all replies telling them that [x] is infested with deadly jellyfish to be "irrelevant"?


The correct way to answer that question would be either "Scuba diving is vibrant/allowed at x location, you should be able to do it" or "Scuba diving at x location is very limited/disallowed so your chance of scuba diving is unlikely."

Now had the question been "Should I scuba dive at x location" then those replies would be perfectly valid. But it wasn't. And neither was OP's.


Remind me to never ask you for vacation advice.

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby CPAlawHopefu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:43 am

lawman84 wrote:
CPAlawHopefu wrote:How can my advice be bad if no advice were ever given by me? lol


You should also look at schools like Fordham and WUSTL and apply to some strong strong flagships like Indiana, Iowa and Minnesota. These are all within your range.


That's not advice?


No it wasn't. OP asked what other schools would be a fit for his numbers, and I provided what was asked. Never suggested that attending those schools would be a good idea.

2016lawschoolhope wrote:LSAT: 163 LSAT
GPA: 3.3 (3.65 after Freshmen Year) - At a top 3 public university

Strong personal statement
2 great rec letters, 1 good rec letter

2 years work experience during college (started my own company)
Political Internship, Non-Profit Internship, Oversees Internship, and Startup Internship (that led to a part time job during 4th year)

Applying to

Boston University
Boston College
Notre Dame
William & Mary
George Washington
Emory
University of Illinois - Urbana Champaign
University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill

What are my chances at these schools? Any others I should apply to? Would ED at any of these help/hurt?

Thanks for the help!

lavarman84

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby lavarman84 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:53 am

CPAlawHopefu wrote:
lawman84 wrote:
CPAlawHopefu wrote:How can my advice be bad if no advice were ever given by me? lol


You should also look at schools like Fordham and WUSTL and apply to some strong strong flagships like Indiana, Iowa and Minnesota. These are all within your range.


That's not advice?


No it wasn't. OP asked what other schools would be a fit for his numbers, and I provided what was asked. Never suggested that attending those schools would be a good or a bad idea.

2016lawschoolhope wrote:LSAT: 163 LSAT
GPA: 3.3 (3.65 after Freshmen Year) - At a top 3 public university

Strong personal statement
2 great rec letters, 1 good rec letter

2 years work experience during college (started my own company)
Political Internship, Non-Profit Internship, Oversees Internship, and Startup Internship (that led to a part time job during 4th year)

Applying to

Boston University
Boston College
Notre Dame
William & Mary
George Washington
Emory
University of Illinois - Urbana Champaign
University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill

What are my chances at these schools? Any others I should apply to? Would ED at any of these help/hurt?

Thanks for the help!


You recommended OP apply to those schools. That's the definition of "advice." It was bad advice.

The reason why this forum is so helpful is because we have knowledgeable posters who have attended law school to guide people through the process. Sometimes that means telling people something they may not want to hear. Sometimes that means answering questions that were not asked. It is the person's choice whether they want to consider that advice and act on it. But this board is a valuable tool because people step up and do that.

For example, the advice that OP needs to hear is this:
OP, if you are unsure of where you want to work geographically, the best thing you can do is retake the LSAT and attend a t14 school. It will give you a more geographically portable degree. If you are intent on not retaking the LSAT, you need to decide what you want to do and research that job. You need to figure out where those jobs are located at, what those jobs pay, and what sort of school you need to attend to get that job (in addition to how difficult it is to get that job).

Once you determine that, it will guide you on which law schools to consider and attend. If you aren't going to attend a t14 school, you need to attend a regional school in or near the market you want to work in that will give you a reasonable shot at the job you want. Once you have figured all of that out, your best guide for determining your chances of getting into those schools is: http://mylsn.info/r/pre-law/admissions/search/. Good luck.

I don't care if that doesn't precisely answer OP's question. It gives OP the advice that he or she needs to hear and gives them the ability to answer his or her own question. I wish I had known of this site back when I was in OP's shoes because somebody could have told me that when I was applying to law schools. It would have been something I needed to know that would have changed my decision.

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:58 am

CPAlawHopefu wrote:No it wasn't. OP asked what other schools would be a fit for his numbers, and I provided what was asked. Never suggested that attending those schools would be a good idea.


I'm not sure if you think parsing linguistic minutia is good practice for law school, but you can't be serious with this line of reasoning.

You have now claimed that "You should do [x]," does not constitute advice and that warning someone of danger when they didn't explicitly ask about danger is irrelevant.

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby CPAlawHopefu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:10 am

lawman84 wrote:You recommended OP apply to those schools. That's the definition of "advice." It was bad advice.

The reason why this forum is so helpful is because we have knowledgeable posters who have attended law school to guide people through the process. Sometimes that means telling people something they may not want to hear. Sometimes that means answering questions that were not asked. It is the person's choice whether they want to consider that advice and act on it. But this board is a valuable tool because people step up and do that.

For example, the advice that OP needs to hear is this:
OP, if you are unsure of where you want to work geographically, the best thing you can do is retake the LSAT and attend a t14 school. It will give you a more geographically portable degree. If you are intent on not retaking the LSAT, you need to decide what you want to do and research that job. You need to figure out where those jobs are located at, what those jobs pay, and what sort of school you need to attend to get that job (in addition to how difficult it is to get that job).

Once you determine that, it will guide you on which law schools to consider and attend. If you aren't going to attend a t14 school, you need to attend a regional school in or near the market you want to work in that will give you a reasonable shot at the job you want. Once you have figured all of that out, your best guide for determining your chances of getting into those schools is: http://mylsn.info/r/pre-law/admissions/search/. Good luck.

I don't care if that doesn't precisely answer OP's question. It gives OP the advice that he or she needs to hear and gives them the ability to answer his or her own question. I wish I had known of this site back when I was in OP's shoes because somebody could have told me that when I was applying to law schools. It would have been something I needed to know that would have changed my decision.


OP asked for other schools that may be within his range, and I gave him a list. That's not an advice.

As for the advice in your reply, I have no problem with it since you led him to a useful site that could answer his questions.

But read back to the replies on this thread, the first reply you see here is "retake" followed by several posts that basically says the same thing in different words and nothing on the actual question asked (except for one who finally answered after 6-7 posts). How does this help in anyway? I'd be pretty damn pissed if I was a first time poster and got this type of replies. Who asked for a career advice? There's a reason why there's separate forum for "chances" and another for "Choose a LS". Stick to the topic.

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:15 am

CPAlawHopefu wrote: How does this help in anyway? I'd be pretty damn pissed if I was a first time poster and got this type of replies. Who asked for a career advice? There's a reason why there's separate forum for "chances" and another for "Choose a LS". Stick to the topic.


You're right.

The best time to offer that advice is after the OP has spent a few hundred dollars on application fees. That way, they're not just losing money, they're learning a valuable life lesson about always asking specific questions to get specific answers. Builds character.

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby CPAlawHopefu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:26 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
CPAlawHopefu wrote: How does this help in anyway? I'd be pretty damn pissed if I was a first time poster and got this type of replies. Who asked for a career advice? There's a reason why there's separate forum for "chances" and another for "Choose a LS". Stick to the topic.


You're right.

The best time to offer that advice is after the OP has spent a few hundred dollars on application fees. That way, they're not just losing money, they're learning a valuable life lesson about always asking specific questions to get specific answers. Builds character.


Why not just sticky a thread that says "We only chance those above 170, don't bother creating a thread here if you're under."?

Absolutely ridiculous how you fail to grasp the simplest concept of Q&A.

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby lymenheimer » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:41 am

CPAlawHopefu wrote:
Boston University - Slight Reach
Boston College - Target
Notre Dame - Slight Reach
William & Mary - Target
George Washington - Reach
Emory - Reach
University of Illinois - Urbana Champaign - Safety
University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill - Safety

You should also look at schools like Fordham and WUSTL and apply to some strong strong flagships like Indiana, Iowa and Minnesota. These are all within your range.

On what are you basing these assertions?

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:44 am

CPAlawHopefu wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
CPAlawHopefu wrote: How does this help in anyway? I'd be pretty damn pissed if I was a first time poster and got this type of replies. Who asked for a career advice? There's a reason why there's separate forum for "chances" and another for "Choose a LS". Stick to the topic.


You're right.

The best time to offer that advice is after the OP has spent a few hundred dollars on application fees. That way, they're not just losing money, they're learning a valuable life lesson about always asking specific questions to get specific answers. Builds character.


Why not just sticky a thread that says "We only chance those above 170, don't bother creating a thread here if you're under."?

Absolutely ridiculous how you fail to grasp the simplest concept of Q&A.


Absolutely ridiculous that you fail to grasp the concept of an advice forum and the notion that someone with a 3.3 GPA needs a higher LSAT to be competitive for scholarship money.

But by all means, continue to be the lone crusader for not warning people about bad decisions. It seems to be working well for you.

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:46 am

This argument is derailing the thread, so everyone please drop it. CPAetc, the responses given here are perfectly within the forum guidelines. I get that you don't like them, but don't turn the thread into a fight about your disagreement with other people's responses, especially when you're not even the OP.

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby guynourmin » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:52 am

CPAlawHopefu wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Imagine that the OP had asked, "What are my chances at getting to do some scuba diving at [x] location?" Would you have deemed all replies telling them that [x] is infested with deadly jellyfish to be "irrelevant"?


The correct way to answer that question would be either "Scuba diving is vibrant/allowed at x location, you should be able to do it" or "Scuba diving at x location is very limited/disallowed so your chance of scuba diving is unlikely."

Now had the question been "Should I scuba dive at x location" then those replies would be perfectly valid. But it wasn't. And neither was OP's.


I just laughed really loud at work. not cool.


Anyway, CPA, I haven't seen this pointed out to you and I think it is important: there are two stickies at the top of the What Are My Chances? board. The first is a link to mylsn, and the second, titled "PLEASE READ BEFORE..." opens with "Before you make a thread...1) Check mylsn". There is nothing special or unique about the OP whatsoever, so there is no reason to suspect that they would have outcomes different than the 20-40 people who have applied with similar numbers in the past few cycles. So, if you want to be really pedantic, either this board already answered OPs question before they posted it OR OP failed to spend two minutes reading the simple sticky at the top of this board before posting and so no one here owes him any kind of response. Honestly, if we had more mods here I would actually like these threads to be replied to with a link to mylsn and then be locked. OP would then be forced to spend a little bit of time doing their own research and come back with a question that could prompt discussion.

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby Creasey » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:21 pm

Clearly wrote:
Creasey wrote:
Clearly wrote:
2016lawschoolhope wrote:So my career goals is to do health law litigation - in a major city (preferably Chicago/Boston - just really like them), would also like NY/Philly.

Luckily i'll be heading into Law School with about 90k saved up and ideally want to go this coming fall.

I'm okay with close to sticker, just want to know my chances on admission.


Are you independently wealthy? That work is largely done by firms that either don't hire from these schools, or hire no more than 30% of the students from these schools. Those are awful odds. If you don't get that job, your next best option prob pays around 50k. You are either going to rely on government programs to pay that back, or you're independently wealthy.

OR you can ace a multiple choice test, and go to a school that all but guarantees a big firm job, or take your chances at one of these schools for less money! It's a multiple choice test man! Trust me, things aren't as rosy as you apparently think, but all hope is not lost. I had a 164 - 2.9 gpa, and I studied my ass off to get to 164. Then I sat out a year, kept working, slayed the lsat, went to a t10, got my 180k. It may have been the best decision I've ever made, statistically the modal outcome from any of those schools is 35-50k a year income. Some chunk will be higher, but thats what you're looking at. There is no in between. You either make 50k or 180k. For you, the difference is a few questions on a multiple choice test. Don't be stupid.



This dude TLS is cynical AF. Doubt he actually attended T10.

Accurately reporting data doesn't equal cynicism. Besides, I'm not being cynical, I'm being rather hopeful. Crush the multiple choice test and be spared a lot of debt. I'm not telling him he can't do it, I'm telling him he can, after retaking.

Also is your evidence that I didn't go to a great school that I'm cynical? Cuz that'd be awful evidence.


Look, I'm not trying to sound like an asshole or a cynic, but you apparently don't understand how sketchy of an investment law school is. Paying back 300k blows when you make 180 and would be impossible on 60. The data from the schools you can get into with these numbers shows that you're more likely to get fucked than not get fucked if you pay sticker. Data from the industry show few jobs in between 60-160. It really is the haves and the have nots. You could mitigate the costs, you could get a scholarship, but again you'd need the stats in the first place. You could (or would have to) go on PAYE, which will indeed keep you from bankruptcy but is still a far cry from actually servicing your debt. So please, rather than call me names, just tell me which part of this you actually disagree with.


I'm calling into question your reliability as a source of information and/or advice.
Your TLS profile: 3.5 GPA, 4.1 LSDAS. This post, 2.9 GPA. Which is real, which are fake? Are you giving honest advice to OP, or are you just trying to keep him out of the applicant pool of schools you are applying to? These discrepancies, not your cynicism, leads me to believe you probably aren't telling the truth about what law school you're in, or hope to attend.

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lymenheimer

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby lymenheimer » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:30 pm

Clearly wrote:


Yea Clearly...ffs...quit trying to thin out your competition every year during the application cycle and just go to law school already.
Last edited by lymenheimer on Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cavalier1138

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:30 pm

Creasey wrote:Your TLS profile: 3.5 GPA, 4.1 LSDAS.


The fact that this situation is near-impossible should be a big hint...

(Since it looks like we're not getting back on-topic any time soon.)

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Clearly

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby Clearly » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:08 pm

Creasey wrote:
Clearly wrote:
Creasey wrote:
Clearly wrote:
2016lawschoolhope wrote:So my career goals is to do health law litigation - in a major city (preferably Chicago/Boston - just really like them), would also like NY/Philly.

Luckily i'll be heading into Law School with about 90k saved up and ideally want to go this coming fall.

I'm okay with close to sticker, just want to know my chances on admission.


Are you independently wealthy? That work is largely done by firms that either don't hire from these schools, or hire no more than 30% of the students from these schools. Those are awful odds. If you don't get that job, your next best option prob pays around 50k. You are either going to rely on government programs to pay that back, or you're independently wealthy.

OR you can ace a multiple choice test, and go to a school that all but guarantees a big firm job, or take your chances at one of these schools for less money! It's a multiple choice test man! Trust me, things aren't as rosy as you apparently think, but all hope is not lost. I had a 164 - 2.9 gpa, and I studied my ass off to get to 164. Then I sat out a year, kept working, slayed the lsat, went to a t10, got my 180k. It may have been the best decision I've ever made, statistically the modal outcome from any of those schools is 35-50k a year income. Some chunk will be higher, but thats what you're looking at. There is no in between. You either make 50k or 180k. For you, the difference is a few questions on a multiple choice test. Don't be stupid.



This dude TLS is cynical AF. Doubt he actually attended T10.

Accurately reporting data doesn't equal cynicism. Besides, I'm not being cynical, I'm being rather hopeful. Crush the multiple choice test and be spared a lot of debt. I'm not telling him he can't do it, I'm telling him he can, after retaking.

Also is your evidence that I didn't go to a great school that I'm cynical? Cuz that'd be awful evidence.


Look, I'm not trying to sound like an asshole or a cynic, but you apparently don't understand how sketchy of an investment law school is. Paying back 300k blows when you make 180 and would be impossible on 60. The data from the schools you can get into with these numbers shows that you're more likely to get fucked than not get fucked if you pay sticker. Data from the industry show few jobs in between 60-160. It really is the haves and the have nots. You could mitigate the costs, you could get a scholarship, but again you'd need the stats in the first place. You could (or would have to) go on PAYE, which will indeed keep you from bankruptcy but is still a far cry from actually servicing your debt. So please, rather than call me names, just tell me which part of this you actually disagree with.


I'm calling into question your reliability as a source of information and/or advice.
Your TLS profile: 3.5 GPA, 4.1 LSDAS. This post, 2.9 GPA. Which is real, which are fake? Are you giving honest advice to OP, or are you just trying to keep him out of the applicant pool of schools you are applying to? These discrepancies, not your cynicism, leads me to believe you probably aren't telling the truth about what law school you're in, or hope to attend.

lol Welcome to TLS! People usually use fake numbers in their profiles if they don't wish to be identified by adcomms. The fact that those two numbers are absurdly far off should indicate that they aren't my actual numbers. The fact that I've been on this site for prob 5 years should also suggest that I'm not an applicant worried about competition, further the offering of great advice isn't something people would do to their competition.

Rather than be rude towards you or anyone else, I will provide you with some links and suggest you do your own research before making a 300k decision.

Here's a great loan calculator.
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/admissions-financial-aid/office-of-financial-aid/upload/Georgetown-Law-Financial-Planning-Calculator-1516-v1.htm

Here's great job data:
https://www.lstreports.com/national/

Here's how you can see what the most probable outcomes look like if you're NOT in biglaw:
Image

And here's great admissions data
http://mylsn.info/r/pre-law/admissions/graph/

Here's a good take-home post tax estimator
http://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/welcome



Take the school you want to go to, use 4 to figure out if you can get in and with how much money. Use 2 and 3 to figure out what your odds of making what money look like. Figure out how much you'll make a month under different possible outcomes with 5. Figure out how much you'll be paying for your education at repayment with 1. Use 5 to figure out how much a month you'll make under different possible outcomes. Subtract that from the information you gathered from 1 and figure out how many decades it'll take you to pay off your loans, and the quality of life you can expect to have under the different possible outcomes.

Have fun.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:59 am

Creasey wrote:Are you giving honest advice to OP, or are you just trying to keep him out of the applicant pool of schools you are applying to.

No one actually does this. And Clearly's been in school for a while. And ad hominems aren't very persuasive.

lavarman84

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby lavarman84 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:49 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Creasey wrote:Are you giving honest advice to OP, or are you just trying to keep him out of the applicant pool of schools you are applying to.

No one actually does this. And Clearly's been in school for a while. And ad hominems aren't very persuasive.


Says you, Nony. I am definitely persuaded. Clearly, stop trying to dissuade your competition from applying.

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Clearly

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby Clearly » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:32 am

lawman84 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Creasey wrote:Are you giving honest advice to OP, or are you just trying to keep him out of the applicant pool of schools you are applying to.

No one actually does this. And Clearly's been in school for a while. And ad hominems aren't very persuasive.


Says you, Nony. I am definitely persuaded. Clearly, stop trying to dissuade your competition from applying.

:lol:

MadJeff

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby MadJeff » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:23 am

Hey, there

I am just wondering what are my chances to apply for scholarship to one of the Law school with GPA results ... around 3.5?

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Clearly

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Re: 163, 3.3GPA Chance me please

Postby Clearly » Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:59 am

MadJeff wrote:Hey, there

I am just wondering what are my chances to apply for scholarship to one of the Law school with GPA results ... around 3.5?

There's not even close to enough information to answer that. Look up a schools lsat and gpa medians, if you're above both you're in "some money" territory. If you're above both 75ths you're in "close to/full ride territory". That's subject to a lot of variables though, many schools are stingy, others are known to spend.



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