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Veil of Ignorance

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Postby Veil of Ignorance » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:14 am

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Veil of Ignorance

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Postby Veil of Ignorance » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:40 am

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Chipotle85

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Re: 175, 3.77-3.81

Postby Chipotle85 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:45 am

You're a lock for Chicago and Columbia, and I would say most likely to get into HYS. You should get a ton of money from other schools, although possibly some YP possibilities.

Veil of Ignorance

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Re: 175, 3.77-3.81

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:19 am

Chipotle85 wrote:You're a lock for Chicago and Columbia, and I would say most likely to get into HYS. You should get a ton of money from other schools, although possibly some YP possibilities.


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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: 175, 3.77-3.81

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:30 am

Of course teaching abroad counts as work experience. Why wouldn't it?

(You also don't need to bump your post after less than an hour.)

Veil of Ignorance

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Re: 175, 3.77-3.81

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:38 am

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: 175, 3.77-3.81

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:51 am

Most people's work experience doesn't lend itself to legal practice. Half the battle is showing that you're a responsible grownup who can show up to a job day after day. There is probably some advantage to having the right kind of consulting etc job, when you're applying to firms. But most people won't have that advantage, and how you do in law school is more important. For applications it's really not an issue.

Veil of Ignorance

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Re: 175, 3.77-3.81

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:00 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Most people's work experience doesn't lend itself to legal practice. Half the battle is showing that you're a responsible grownup who can show up to a job day after day. There is probably some advantage to having the right kind of consulting etc job, when you're applying to firms. But most people won't have that advantage, and how you do in law school is more important. For applications it's really not an issue.


Seeing as you've been around for a while, any input re: chances? I know it's tough to predict.

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Re: 175, 3.77-3.81

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:33 am

Oh, I'm am terrible at evaluating chances - I wasn't in the running for the top schools so I don't have a handle on the fine distinctions between the different kinds of high GPAs and LSATs and which gets you what, where. I think you are going to have some excellent options, but beyond that I can't say much. (Y & S are black boxes so for the poster above to say most likely wrt YS is maybe a little optimistic, but you're certainly not out.) Check out mylsn.info.

But for the record, YP = yield protect, which is where a school for which you have very high numbers rejects or waitlists you, because they don't think you'll actually attend and they don't want to screw up their selectivity ranking. I think UVA is notorious for this? (I could be misremembering - there's info here about which schools do this.)

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Re: 175, 3.77-3.81

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:47 am

^Michigan does a lot of YP waitlisting.

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Re: 175, 3.77-3.81

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:45 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:^Michigan does a lot of YP waitlisting.


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Re: 175, 3.77-3.81

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:28 pm

scottyboy wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:^Michigan does a lot of YP waitlisting.


How can you avoid this? I actually really like Michigan and would rather take a scholarship there than go to Columbia or something


Write a "Why Michigan" essay that explains just that (minus the scholarship part). Get in touch with the admissions department to ask about specific things. If you're wildly overqualified for Michigan (you are), you need to make it clear that you really want to go there in order to avoid getting hit by that YP.

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Re: 175, 3.77-3.81

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:45 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
scottyboy wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:^Michigan does a lot of YP waitlisting.


How can you avoid this? I actually really like Michigan and would rather take a scholarship there than go to Columbia or something


Write a "Why Michigan" essay that explains just that (minus the scholarship part). Get in touch with the admissions department to ask about specific things. If you're wildly overqualified for Michigan (you are), you need to make it clear that you really want to go there in order to avoid getting hit by that YP.

OK, thanks. Do you happen to know what numbers are needed to get one of Michigan's big schollys, like the Darrow?

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QuentonCassidy

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Re: 175, 3.77-3.81

Postby QuentonCassidy » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:51 pm

scottyboy wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
scottyboy wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:^Michigan does a lot of YP waitlisting.


How can you avoid this? I actually really like Michigan and would rather take a scholarship there than go to Columbia or something


Write a "Why Michigan" essay that explains just that (minus the scholarship part). Get in touch with the admissions department to ask about specific things. If you're wildly overqualified for Michigan (you are), you need to make it clear that you really want to go there in order to avoid getting hit by that YP.

OK, thanks. Do you happen to know what numbers are needed to get one of Michigan's big schollys, like the Darrow?

I believe you are in the running for a Darrow with those numbers. I know someone last year who got a Darrow with much lower numbers than yours (they had unique softs though so not the best comparison) and I got a Darrow with numbers a bit higher. I also know someone with stats near yours that got an interview for the Darrow but ultimately was not awarded it (if you don't end up with the Darrow after the interview I'm pretty sure you automatically still get 150k though), the moral of the story being that there seems to be a wide range of numbers at which someone is competitive for the Darrow, but not necessarily a lock. I would bet that your numbers give you a good shot at consideration.

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Re: 175, 3.77-3.81

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:36 pm

QuentonCassidy wrote:
scottyboy wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
scottyboy wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:^Michigan does a lot of YP waitlisting.


How can you avoid this? I actually really like Michigan and would rather take a scholarship there than go to Columbia or something


Write a "Why Michigan" essay that explains just that (minus the scholarship part). Get in touch with the admissions department to ask about specific things. If you're wildly overqualified for Michigan (you are), you need to make it clear that you really want to go there in order to avoid getting hit by that YP.

OK, thanks. Do you happen to know what numbers are needed to get one of Michigan's big schollys, like the Darrow?

I believe you are in the running for a Darrow with those numbers. I know someone last year who got a Darrow with much lower numbers than yours (they had unique softs though so not the best comparison) and I got a Darrow with numbers a bit higher. I also know someone with stats near yours that got an interview for the Darrow but ultimately was not awarded it (if you don't end up with the Darrow after the interview I'm pretty sure you automatically still get 150k though), the moral of the story being that there seems to be a wide range of numbers at which someone is competitive for the Darrow, but not necessarily a lock. I would bet that your numbers give you a good shot at consideration.


Did you take the Darrow over HYS? Also, is a 175 or 176 even seen as better than a 171 in the eyes of a school like Michigan, seeing as their 75% is 169?

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QuentonCassidy

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Re: 175, 3.77-3.81

Postby QuentonCassidy » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:17 am

scottyboy wrote:
QuentonCassidy wrote:
scottyboy wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
scottyboy wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:^Michigan does a lot of YP waitlisting.


How can you avoid this? I actually really like Michigan and would rather take a scholarship there than go to Columbia or something


Write a "Why Michigan" essay that explains just that (minus the scholarship part). Get in touch with the admissions department to ask about specific things. If you're wildly overqualified for Michigan (you are), you need to make it clear that you really want to go there in order to avoid getting hit by that YP.

OK, thanks. Do you happen to know what numbers are needed to get one of Michigan's big schollys, like the Darrow?

I believe you are in the running for a Darrow with those numbers. I know someone last year who got a Darrow with much lower numbers than yours (they had unique softs though so not the best comparison) and I got a Darrow with numbers a bit higher. I also know someone with stats near yours that got an interview for the Darrow but ultimately was not awarded it (if you don't end up with the Darrow after the interview I'm pretty sure you automatically still get 150k though), the moral of the story being that there seems to be a wide range of numbers at which someone is competitive for the Darrow, but not necessarily a lock. I would bet that your numbers give you a good shot at consideration.


Did you take the Darrow over HYS? Also, is a 175 or 176 even seen as better than a 171 in the eyes of a school like Michigan, seeing as their 75% is 169?

I did not, but I had unusual personal circumstances that kind of necessitated me choosing H; without consideration of these circumstances I would definitely have taken scholarship money elsewhere instead of HYS. I would say that yes a 175 is still seen as significantly better than a 171 even though their 75th is a 169, for scholarship consideration if not for acceptance chances; I believe the data on scholarships tend to bear that out.

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Re: 175, 3.77-3.81

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:55 am

QuentonCassidy wrote:
scottyboy wrote:
QuentonCassidy wrote:
scottyboy wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
scottyboy wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:^Michigan does a lot of YP waitlisting.


How can you avoid this? I actually really like Michigan and would rather take a scholarship there than go to Columbia or something


Write a "Why Michigan" essay that explains just that (minus the scholarship part). Get in touch with the admissions department to ask about specific things. If you're wildly overqualified for Michigan (you are), you need to make it clear that you really want to go there in order to avoid getting hit by that YP.

OK, thanks. Do you happen to know what numbers are needed to get one of Michigan's big schollys, like the Darrow?

I believe you are in the running for a Darrow with those numbers. I know someone last year who got a Darrow with much lower numbers than yours (they had unique softs though so not the best comparison) and I got a Darrow with numbers a bit higher. I also know someone with stats near yours that got an interview for the Darrow but ultimately was not awarded it (if you don't end up with the Darrow after the interview I'm pretty sure you automatically still get 150k though), the moral of the story being that there seems to be a wide range of numbers at which someone is competitive for the Darrow, but not necessarily a lock. I would bet that your numbers give you a good shot at consideration.


Did you take the Darrow over HYS? Also, is a 175 or 176 even seen as better than a 171 in the eyes of a school like Michigan, seeing as their 75% is 169?

I did not, but I had unusual personal circumstances that kind of necessitated me choosing H; without consideration of these circumstances I would definitely have taken scholarship money elsewhere instead of HYS. I would say that yes a 175 is still seen as significantly better than a 171 even though their 75th is a 169, for scholarship consideration if not for acceptance chances; I believe the data on scholarships tend to bear that out.


OK I gotta ask, since you actually go to Harvard, as opposed to a lot of 0L who talk about this. Do you regret taking out so much debt for Harvard? My family think that, if I got in, it would be crazy not to, but man that's a lot of $$$

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QuentonCassidy

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Re: 175, 3.77-3.81

Postby QuentonCassidy » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:14 pm

scottyboy wrote:
QuentonCassidy wrote:
scottyboy wrote:
Did you take the Darrow over HYS? Also, is a 175 or 176 even seen as better than a 171 in the eyes of a school like Michigan, seeing as their 75% is 169?

I did not, but I had unusual personal circumstances that kind of necessitated me choosing H; without consideration of these circumstances I would definitely have taken scholarship money elsewhere instead of HYS. I would say that yes a 175 is still seen as significantly better than a 171 even though their 75th is a 169, for scholarship consideration if not for acceptance chances; I believe the data on scholarships tend to bear that out.


OK I gotta ask, since you actually go to Harvard, as opposed to a lot of 0L who talk about this. Do you regret taking out so much debt for Harvard? My family think that, if I got in, it would be crazy not to, but man that's a lot of $$$

I personally do not regret it at all, however, I also received max financial aid and I have yet to deal with any of the actual consequences (read: make any loan payments or job decisions with loans hanging over my head). Also, once again, if it weren't for my personal circumstances I would almost certainly have taken one of my schollys over H. FWIW, I think the general wisdom posted by the practicing attorneys on this forum in threads about choosing between T14 fulls and HYS is correct, with the only caveat being that it is sometimes overgeneralized. The best choice for you will depend on career goals, how much financial aid you would receive from HYS, and personal circumstances, but in the overwhelming majority of cases it is a better idea to take a T14 full. If you end up in a position choosing between the two, I would recommend searching for threads about the decision (there are altogether too many) and paying particular attention to the posts made by the practicing attorneys because they have experience with the actual consequences of the loans. 0/1/2/3Ls don't exactly know what they have gotten into yet.

Veil of Ignorance

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Re: 175, 3.77-3.81

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:53 pm

QuentonCassidy wrote:
scottyboy wrote:
QuentonCassidy wrote:
scottyboy wrote:
Did you take the Darrow over HYS? Also, is a 175 or 176 even seen as better than a 171 in the eyes of a school like Michigan, seeing as their 75% is 169?

I did not, but I had unusual personal circumstances that kind of necessitated me choosing H; without consideration of these circumstances I would definitely have taken scholarship money elsewhere instead of HYS. I would say that yes a 175 is still seen as significantly better than a 171 even though their 75th is a 169, for scholarship consideration if not for acceptance chances; I believe the data on scholarships tend to bear that out.


OK I gotta ask, since you actually go to Harvard, as opposed to a lot of 0L who talk about this. Do you regret taking out so much debt for Harvard? My family think that, if I got in, it would be crazy not to, but man that's a lot of $$$

I personally do not regret it at all, however, I also received max financial aid and I have yet to deal with any of the actual consequences (read: make any loan payments or job decisions with loans hanging over my head). Also, once again, if it weren't for my personal circumstances I would almost certainly have taken one of my schollys over H. FWIW, I think the general wisdom posted by the practicing attorneys on this forum in threads about choosing between T14 fulls and HYS is correct, with the only caveat being that it is sometimes overgeneralized. The best choice for you will depend on career goals, how much financial aid you would receive from HYS, and personal circumstances, but in the overwhelming majority of cases it is a better idea to take a T14 full. If you end up in a position choosing between the two, I would recommend searching for threads about the decision (there are altogether too many) and paying particular attention to the posts made by the practicing attorneys because they have experience with the actual consequences of the loans. 0/1/2/3Ls don't exactly know what they have gotten into yet.


Thanks a bunch :D



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