Can I get into Georgetown?

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Madiscone

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Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby Madiscone » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:47 am

I have a 3.88 GPA and I'm waiting on my LSAT score. The first time I took it I got a 161, and I'm thinking I maybe got a 163 (I was score over 170 on PT's but the virus logic game killed me). I have three great recommendations, and what I think is a unique personal statement and supplemental. I have a duel degree in theater so my personal statement was about how theater strengthened my government major. I am thinking about applying early decision. Chances of getting into Georgetown or another T14?

cavalier1138

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:40 pm

You currently have a 161, so your chances are pretty low. But let's say you get a 163. Your chances won't be quite as low, but they'll still be in the sub-coin-flip range.

And since Georgetown has the lowest medians (at least I think they do...) in the T14, that should give you a pretty accurate picture of what your chances look like at other T14 schools.

Retake. Get a better LSAT. Stop relying on your "unique" background to make up the difference.

Edit: Also, don't apply early decision unless the school guarantees scholarship money. It usually doesn't help your chances, but it pretty much guarantees you'll pay sticker if you do get in.

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nealric

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby nealric » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:06 pm

Madiscone wrote:I have a 3.88 GPA and I'm waiting on my LSAT score. The first time I took it I got a 161, and I'm thinking I maybe got a 163 (I was score over 170 on PT's but the virus logic game killed me). I have three great recommendations, and what I think is a unique personal statement and supplemental. I have a duel degree in theater so my personal statement was about how theater strengthened my government major. I am thinking about applying early decision. Chances of getting into Georgetown or another T14?


Come back when you have a final score, but a 161 is an autoding and a 163 is very likely a ding. They don't care about your recs and personal statement. I hope your personal statement doesn't talk about your "duel" degree unless you are an Olympic fencer or intend to kill Alexander Hamilton.

Madiscone

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby Madiscone » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:31 pm

nealric wrote:
Madiscone wrote:I have a 3.88 GPA and I'm waiting on my LSAT score. The first time I took it I got a 161, and I'm thinking I maybe got a 163 (I was score over 170 on PT's but the virus logic game killed me). I have three great recommendations, and what I think is a unique personal statement and supplemental. I have a duel degree in theater so my personal statement was about how theater strengthened my government major. I am thinking about applying early decision. Chances of getting into Georgetown or another T14?


Come back when you have a final score, but a 161 is an autoding and a 163 is very likely a ding. They don't care about your recs and personal statement. I hope your personal statement doesn't talk about your "duel" degree unless you are an Olympic fencer or intend to kill Alexander Hamilton.



Why an automatic ding? Georgetown's 25th percentile is 161, and I'm above 75th percentile in GPA.

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby Madiscone » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:40 pm

nealric wrote:
Madiscone wrote:I have a 3.88 GPA and I'm waiting on my LSAT score. The first time I took it I got a 161, and I'm thinking I maybe got a 163 (I was score over 170 on PT's but the virus logic game killed me). I have three great recommendations, and what I think is a unique personal statement and supplemental. I have a duel degree in theater so my personal statement was about how theater strengthened my government major. I am thinking about applying early decision. Chances of getting into Georgetown or another T14?


Come back when you have a final score, but a 161 is an autoding and a 163 is very likely a ding. They don't care about your recs and personal statement. I hope your personal statement doesn't talk about your "duel" degree unless you are an Olympic fencer or intend to kill Alexander Hamilton.


You can't get financial aid if you apply ED to Georgetown, but the admissions committee is very open in the fact that they favor students who apply ED.

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby StopLawying » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:42 pm

Looked this up on mylsn and with a 163 and 3.88 you'd have a decent chance at Georgetown, even some of the lower T-14

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Law2020hopeful

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby Law2020hopeful » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:49 pm

Madiscone wrote:I have a duel degree in theater so my personal statement was about how theater strengthened my government major. I am thinking about applying early decision. Chances of getting into Georgetown or another T14?


I'll be blunt. I have a MA degree in theatre (it was a scholarly program- one that focused on theatre criticism/scholarship, though I took a class or two in acting/directing for fun) and I've talked to members of Yale and Columbia adcomms and the general consensus is that they look down on theatre degrees because they are not "academically rigorous" (I was the editor of my university's graduate interdisciplinary journal AND I've had multiple papers published in several journals as well to give you an idea of how academically rigorous my program actually is) and "have nothing to do with the study or practice of law"- legitimately those are two quotes from adcomm members. Unless you have a VERY compelling reason for why your theatre background/degree strengthened your government major, they will not be impressed and there's a chance it could hurt you. It's definitely a perception problem, but that's the way it is, unfortunately.

I was VERY upset/disheartened/discouraged after my convos with these adcomm members. I'm not telling you this to dissuade you, I'm telling you so that you can best prepare yourself and your application for the outcome you want.

Make sure you can get above a 165 and then retake the LSAT. It's your best bet for Gtown (and any other T14 admission- above a 168/170 would obviously be even better).

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Law2020hopeful

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby Law2020hopeful » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:01 pm

StopLawying wrote:Looked this up on mylsn and with a 163 and 3.88 you'd have a decent chance at Georgetown, even some of the lower T-14


Mylsn numbers:
161-163 LSAT and 3.8-3.9 GPA
ED ONLY: http://mylsn.info/2c3f3y/
ED Included: http://mylsn.info/nwkr8n/
ED Excluded: http://mylsn.info/z13lfg/

164-165 LSAT and 3.8-3.9 GPA
ED ONLY: http://mylsn.info/4l6ytx/
ED Included:http://mylsn.info/24a5zk/
ED Excluded: http://mylsn.info/afijaj/

166-168 LSAT and 3.8-3.9 GPA
ED ONLY: http://mylsn.info/i01263/
ED Included: http://mylsn.info/jxz59n/
ED Excluded: http://mylsn.info/0y40o2/

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby Madiscone » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:18 pm

Law2020hopeful wrote:
Madiscone wrote:I have a duel degree in theater so my personal statement was about how theater strengthened my government major. I am thinking about applying early decision. Chances of getting into Georgetown or another T14?


I'll be blunt. I have a MA degree in theatre (it was a scholarly program- one that focused on theatre criticism/scholarship, though I took a class or two in acting/directing for fun) and I've talked to members of Yale and Columbia adcomms and the general consensus is that they look down on theatre degrees because they are not "academically rigorous" (I was the editor of my university's graduate interdisciplinary journal AND I've had multiple papers published in several journals as well to give you an idea of how academically rigorous my program actually is) and "have nothing to do with the study or practice of law"- legitimately those are two quotes from adcomm members. Unless you have a VERY compelling reason for why your theatre background/degree strengthened your government major, they will not be impressed and there's a chance it could hurt you. It's definitely a perception problem, but that's the way it is, unfortunately.

I was VERY upset/disheartened/discouraged after my convos with these adcomm members. I'm not telling you this to dissuade you, I'm telling you so that you can best prepare yourself and your application for the outcome you want.

Make sure you can get above a 165 and then retake the LSAT. It's your best bet for Gtown (and any other T14 admission- above a 168/170 would obviously be even better).



They'll look down on my application since I have a theater background even if I also have a BA in government?

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:24 pm

Law2020hopeful wrote:
Madiscone wrote:I have a duel degree in theater so my personal statement was about how theater strengthened my government major. I am thinking about applying early decision. Chances of getting into Georgetown or another T14?


I'll be blunt. I have a MA degree in theatre (it was a scholarly program- one that focused on theatre criticism/scholarship, though I took a class or two in acting/directing for fun) and I've talked to members of Yale and Columbia adcomms and the general consensus is that they look down on theatre degrees because they are not "academically rigorous" (I was the editor of my university's graduate interdisciplinary journal AND I've had multiple papers published in several journals as well to give you an idea of how academically rigorous my program actually is) and "have nothing to do with the study or practice of law"- legitimately those are two quotes from adcomm members. Unless you have a VERY compelling reason for why your theatre background/degree strengthened your government major, they will not be impressed and there's a chance it could hurt you. It's definitely a perception problem, but that's the way it is, unfortunately.

I was VERY upset/disheartened/discouraged after my convos with these adcomm members. I'm not telling you this to dissuade you, I'm telling you so that you can best prepare yourself and your application for the outcome you want.

Make sure you can get above a 165 and then retake the LSAT. It's your best bet for Gtown (and any other T14 admission- above a 168/170 would obviously be even better).


My MFA in Acting only helped me during admissions. Don't get me wrong, I met some idiot adcomms along the way who genuinely seemed to think that the main qualification I brought to the table as an actor was my ability to read words on a page (I kid you not; actual interview with actual adcomm... I had to resist the urge to just walk out). But when it came time to evaluate my qualifications, my degrees created the instant impression that I was empathetic, personable, good at oratory, etc. None of that would have helped without my LSAT being good enough to get me in (the point OP still doesn't seem to grasp), but a major in theatre is only an asset once you have the requisite numbers.

Now, to the OP:
Madiscone wrote:Why an automatic ding? Georgetown's 25th percentile is 161, and I'm above 75th percentile in GPA.

Because the vast majority of schools do not favor reverse-splitters. Your LSAT is weighted more heavily than your GPA.

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby runinthefront » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:30 pm

anectdotally

3.8, 159 non-URM female from state school (ranked in the 90s-100s) = GULC acceptance
3.78, 160 non-URM female from state school (ranked in the 40s to 50s) = GULC acceptance
3.8, 158 URM female from state school (ranked in the 40s to 50s) = GULC w/ $.

These aren't random people pulled from MyLSN. These are either current 2Ls or 3Ls that I'm either related to or close friends with, and they all got in (and are all attending GULC). I think your chance at GULC is probably a toss up, but I wouldn't expect any money of any kind. you should retake, as the outcomes for many GULC students do not include jobs that make servicing the debt on a standard repayment plan feasible. None of them were accepted into any other T14, though.
Last edited by runinthefront on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Law2020hopeful

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby Law2020hopeful » Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:15 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:My MFA in Acting only helped me during admissions. Don't get me wrong, I met some idiot adcomms along the way who genuinely seemed to think that the main qualification I brought to the table as an actor was my ability to read words on a page (I kid you not; actual interview with actual adcomm... I had to resist the urge to just walk out). But when it came time to evaluate my qualifications, my degrees created the instant impression that I was empathetic, personable, good at oratory, etc. None of that would have helped without my LSAT being good enough to get me in (the point OP still doesn't seem to grasp), but a major in theatre is only an asset once you have the requisite numbers.


I'm really glad to hear that! Maybe the two adcomms that I spoke to (again they were from Yale and Columbia so definitely two schools I would say are not representative of all law schools- especially Yale) were among the "idiot adcomm" set. I actually agree with you that theatre is a tremendous asset, once they understand what you actually bring to the table because of it.

OP, write about what you want. I will say this: if you choose to write about what you bring to the table because of theatre, make sure you specifically spell out skills like script analysis (which is essentially what you do in English classes anyway so it's academic), any research you've done because of dramaturgy (my specialty <3) etc. in addition to skills like being comfortable in front of people and good at oratory etc.

Totally agree about the numbers game though, @cavalier (OP RETAKE)!

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:18 pm

Law2020hopeful wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:My MFA in Acting only helped me during admissions. Don't get me wrong, I met some idiot adcomms along the way who genuinely seemed to think that the main qualification I brought to the table as an actor was my ability to read words on a page (I kid you not; actual interview with actual adcomm... I had to resist the urge to just walk out). But when it came time to evaluate my qualifications, my degrees created the instant impression that I was empathetic, personable, good at oratory, etc. None of that would have helped without my LSAT being good enough to get me in (the point OP still doesn't seem to grasp), but a major in theatre is only an asset once you have the requisite numbers.


I'm really glad to hear that! Maybe the two adcomms that I spoke to (again they were from Yale and Columbia so definitely two schools I would say are not representative of all law schools- especially Yale) were among the "idiot adcomm" set. I actually agree with you that theatre is a tremendous asset, once they understand what you actually bring to the table because of it.

OP, write about what you want. I will say this: if you choose to write about what you bring to the table because of theatre, make sure you specifically spell out skills like script analysis (which is essentially what you do in English classes anyway so it's academic), any research you've done because of dramaturgy (my specialty <3) etc. in addition to skills like being comfortable in front of people and good at oratory etc.

Totally agree about the numbers game though, @cavalier (OP RETAKE)!


Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about your cycle. There are definitely good ways to leverage involvement in the arts.

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby Madiscone » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:33 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Law2020hopeful wrote:
Madiscone wrote:I have a duel degree in theater so my personal statement was about how theater strengthened my government major. I am thinking about applying early decision. Chances of getting into Georgetown or another T14?


I'll be blunt. I have a MA degree in theatre (it was a scholarly program- one that focused on theatre criticism/scholarship, though I took a class or two in acting/directing for fun) and I've talked to members of Yale and Columbia adcomms and the general consensus is that they look down on theatre degrees because they are not "academically rigorous" (I was the editor of my university's graduate interdisciplinary journal AND I've had multiple papers published in several journals as well to give you an idea of how academically rigorous my program actually is) and "have nothing to do with the study or practice of law"- legitimately those are two quotes from adcomm members. Unless you have a VERY compelling reason for why your theatre background/degree strengthened your government major, they will not be impressed and there's a chance it could hurt you. It's definitely a perception problem, but that's the way it is, unfortunately.

I was VERY upset/disheartened/discouraged after my convos with these adcomm members. I'm not telling you this to dissuade you, I'm telling you so that you can best prepare yourself and your application for the outcome you want.

Make sure you can get above a 165 and then retake the LSAT. It's your best bet for Gtown (and any other T14 admission- above a 168/170 would obviously be even better).


My MFA in Acting only helped me during admissions. Don't get me wrong, I met some idiot adcomms along the way who genuinely seemed to think that the main qualification I brought to the table as an actor was my ability to read words on a page (I kid you not; actual interview with actual adcomm... I had to resist the urge to just walk out). But when it came time to evaluate my qualifications, my degrees created the instant impression that I was empathetic, personable, good at oratory, etc. None of that would have helped without my LSAT being good enough to get me in (the point OP still doesn't seem to grasp), but a major in theatre is only an asset once you have the requisite numbers.

Now, to the OP:
Madiscone wrote:Why an automatic ding? Georgetown's 25th percentile is 161, and I'm above 75th percentile in GPA.

Because the vast majority of schools do not favor reverse-splitters. Your LSAT is weighted more heavily than your GPA.


I got in with my 161. I'd refrain from being to quick to shoot people down in the future, cavalier. I was also a directing concentration, not dramaturgy or acting. I think that was probably a bonus because it speaks more to leadership.
Last edited by Madiscone on Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cavalier1138

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:36 pm

Madiscone wrote:I got in. I'd refrain from being to quick to shoot people down in the future. I was also a directing concentration, not dramaturgy or acting. I think that was probably a bonus because it speaks more to leadership.


Congratulations. You beat the numbers.

And no, the fact that you concentrated in directing did not give you an advantage over other kinds of theatre majors. Adcomms don't know the difference and don't care.

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby Madiscone » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:40 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Madiscone wrote:I got in. I'd refrain from being to quick to shoot people down in the future. I was also a directing concentration, not dramaturgy or acting. I think that was probably a bonus because it speaks more to leadership.


Congratulations. You beat the numbers.

And no, the fact that you concentrated in directing did not give you an advantage over other kinds of theatre majors. Adcomms don't know the difference and don't care.


Well again, that is what my PS was about so I would hope that they would learn the difference. Either way I'm pretty stoked - this thread was definitely discouraging so I'm glad that I beat the odds.

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Barack O'Drama

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:45 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Madiscone wrote:I got in. I'd refrain from being to quick to shoot people down in the future. I was also a directing concentration, not dramaturgy or acting. I think that was probably a bonus because it speaks more to leadership.


Congratulations. You beat the numbers.

And no, the fact that you concentrated in directing did not give you an advantage over other kinds of theatre majors. Adcomms don't know the difference and don't care.



Yeah, you beat the odds/numbers and that's great. Nothing is more annoying than when someone asks if they can do something, people tell them yes, but their chances are low, and then the OP gets butthurt.

Congrats though on GT, OP
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Madiscone

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby Madiscone » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:58 am

Barack O'Drama wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Madiscone wrote:I got in. I'd refrain from being to quick to shoot people down in the future. I was also a directing concentration, not dramaturgy or acting. I think that was probably a bonus because it speaks more to leadership.


Congratulations. You beat the numbers.

And no, the fact that you concentrated in directing did not give you an advantage over other kinds of theatre majors. Adcomms don't know the difference and don't care.



Yeah, you beat the odds/numbers and that's great. Nothing is more annoying than when someone asks if they can do something, people tell them yes, but their chances are low, and then the OP gets butthurt.

Congrats though on GT, OP


I was specifically referencing "which OP doesn't seem to grasp." Sounds a little rude considering I'm just asking for advice. there's no need to be. And considering they still accepted me, I think I grasp the numbers enough.

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Re: Can I get into Georgetown?

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:12 am

Madiscone wrote:
Barack O'Drama wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Madiscone wrote:I got in. I'd refrain from being to quick to shoot people down in the future. I was also a directing concentration, not dramaturgy or acting. I think that was probably a bonus because it speaks more to leadership.


Congratulations. You beat the numbers.

And no, the fact that you concentrated in directing did not give you an advantage over other kinds of theatre majors. Adcomms don't know the difference and don't care.



Yeah, you beat the odds/numbers and that's great. Nothing is more annoying than when someone asks if they can do something, people tell them yes, but their chances are low, and then the OP gets butthurt.

Congrats though on GT, OP


I was specifically referencing "which OP doesn't seem to grasp." Sounds a little rude considering I'm just asking for advice. there's no need to be. And considering they still accepted me, I think I grasp the numbers enough.


Again, congratulations. You beat the odds. If you understood the numbers, you would know that your result was not expected, so you wouldn't be back here crowing about how wrong everyone was to warn you that the result wasn't expected.



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