176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

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euler

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176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby euler » Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:26 am

I got 176 on my first take in June, which is around the level I had PT-ed, but certainly have a chance to improve in September with much fewer things on mind (this semester had been crazy with all sorts of unexpected deadlines).

I guess the number per se is OK, but I'm finishing my undergrad in a really obscure university in China (obscure even to the general public in China), which I think could be a big disadvantage (not sure how big though) when other applicants from my country are almost all top 5 universities. And I seem to have average softs.

Due to financial constraints and that non-citizens don't get federal loans, my only chance at US law school would be YHS (with institutional loans) or full rides from other T-14s (anything lower might not produce a career that offers enough financial compensation to justify the cost and energy).

I've heard that Y and S admit few applicants without a US undergrad GPA, and full rides from other law schools are rarely given to aliens, so H (which is said to place a great focus on numbers) seems my best chance. Yet a 176 does not seem to be particularly safe for H (or is it?). That's why I'm registered for a retake in September, but extremely unsure about whether this is needed.

It would help a lot if anyone with similar experience (international GPA, similar LSAT) could share your ideas, and advice in general is also welcome!
Last edited by euler on Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:51 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: 176 / International GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby NoLongerALurker » Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:13 am

I'm doubtful that a 176 is going to be treated notably more favourably than a, say, 178. I'd be interested in whether you get in with your current stats (so here's hoping you return with that data point for future Googlers who stumble upon this), but I wouldn't recommend a retake at this point. I'm not all that familiar with international applicants, but my instinct is that you've got a great shot.

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Re: 176 / International GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby euler » Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:39 am

NoLongerALurker wrote:I'm doubtful that a 176 is going to be treated notably more favourably than a, say, 178. I'd be interested in whether you get in with your current stats (so here's hoping you return with that data point for future Googlers who stumble upon this), but I wouldn't recommend a retake at this point. I'm not all that familiar with international applicants, but my instinct is that you've got a great shot.


I agree that the difference might not be huge, but here's the rub: I heard that last year the applicant with the lowest LSAT score who got into H from China with an international GPA had 175 (words are that this applicant is also from a top 5 university). Assuming this year is not much different, 175-176 may be the cut line, and I can't afford being on the wrong side.

That said, all the information I have is based on second-hand sources, and the top people don't seem to be sharing information on Chinese forums, that's why I come to TLS looking for more (and more accurate) info, in the hope that they might hang around here. Nevertheless I do appreciate your reply.

Another thing I'm not really sure is how much a role foreign undergrad plays. Maybe all Chinese universities except the top 2 are just the same to admission officers, or maybe they do value the nuance there. It would be very helpful if anyone familiar with that side of admission process could give some advice.

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Re: 176 / International GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby Nebby » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:17 am

euler wrote:
NoLongerALurker wrote:I'm doubtful that a 176 is going to be treated notably more favourably than a, say, 178. I'd be interested in whether you get in with your current stats (so here's hoping you return with that data point for future Googlers who stumble upon this), but I wouldn't recommend a retake at this point. I'm not all that familiar with international applicants, but my instinct is that you've got a great shot.


I agree that the difference might not be huge, but here's the rub: I heard that last year the applicant with the lowest LSAT score who got into H from China with an international GPA had 175 (words are that this applicant is also from a top 5 university). Assuming this year is not much different, 175-176 may be the cut line, and I can't afford being on the wrong side.

That said, all the information I have is based on second-hand sources, and the top people don't seem to be sharing information on Chinese forums, that's why I come to TLS looking for more (and more accurate) info, in the hope that they might hang around here. Nevertheless I do appreciate your reply.

Another thing I'm not really sure is how much a role foreign undergrad plays. Maybe all Chinese universities except the top 2 are just the same to admission officers, or maybe they do value the nuance there. It would be very helpful if anyone familiar with that side of admission process could give some advice.

Bro, just apply. Don't rely on the one anecdotal snippet. So long as they can convert your ugpa into something recognizable, then you're fine. Stop stressing, you're killing my vibe

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby Dcc617 » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:25 am

A 176 won't be the thing that keeps you out of Harvard. Maybe try to improve your soft factors and make sure that your application is tight.

For what it's worth, I got in with a 176 and a GPA below the 25th. I also have pretty decent work experience.

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby Hand » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:42 am

Dcc617 wrote:A 176 won't be the thing that keeps you out of Harvard. Maybe try to improve your soft factors and make sure that your application is tight.

^ this. My 175/superior didn't get me in in 2014-15. I highly doubt it was my LSAT score, instead of, say, my lackluster interview and half-assed personal statement, that was the issue.

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby Babum » Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:57 pm

euler wrote:and full rides from other law schools are rarely given to aliens.


I don't think this is correct. I got full rides at every school that accepted me, with the exception of the school that I am attending. Unless I am the rarely.

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby appind » Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:01 pm

euler wrote:I got 176 on my first take in June, which is around the level I had PT-ed, but certainly have a chance to improve in September with much fewer things on mind (this semester had been crazy with all sorts of unexpected deadlines).

I guess the number per se is OK, but I'm finishing my undergrad in a really obscure university in China (obscure even to the general public in China), which I think could be a big disadvantage (not sure how big though) when other applicants from my country are almost all top 5 universities.

I seem to have average or even below average softs. The only things worth noting may be an online video program that I started (which got home page exposure from what used to be one of the two largest video sites in the country) on English learning, one year helping the local community (mostly elderly people) in English learning, and running a blog of sort (called wechat public account here) of modest following again on English learning.

Due to financial constraints and that non-citizens don't get federal loans, my only chance at US law school would be YHS (with institutional loans) or full rides from other T-14s (anything lower might not produce a career that offers enough financial compensation to justify the cost and energy).

I've heard that Y and S admit few applicants without a US undergrad GPA, and full rides from other law schools are rarely given to aliens, so H (which is said to place a great focus on numbers) seems my best chance. Yet a 176 does not seem to be particularly safe for H (or is it?). That's why I'm registered for a retake in September, but extremely unsure about whether this is needed.

It would help a lot if anyone with similar experience (international GPA, similar LSAT) could share your ideas, and advice in general is also welcomed!


don't think a 176 lsat will keep you out of anywhere, but i've heard the admissions work slightly different from international gpa.

are you a non native speaker of english? 176 is very out of ordinary for a non native from an obscure university in china.

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby euler » Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:34 pm

Hand wrote:
Dcc617 wrote:A 176 won't be the thing that keeps you out of Harvard. Maybe try to improve your soft factors and make sure that your application is tight.

^ this. My 175/superior didn't get me in in 2014-15. I highly doubt it was my LSAT score, instead of, say, my lackluster interview and half-assed personal statement, that was the issue.

It's very helpful to know that. I will craft my PS very carefully to make sure my story gets its fare share of credit. Do feel for you though.

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby euler » Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:37 pm

Babum wrote:
euler wrote:and full rides from other law schools are rarely given to aliens.


I don't think this is correct. I got full rides at every school that accepted me, with the exception of the school that I am attending. Unless I am the rarely.

Wow, that's impressive! Do you have a US undergrad GPA (because I really meant aliens with an international GPA)? And I would really appreciate it if you could share your LSAT score and how good your softs were in general terms.

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby euler » Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:47 pm

appind wrote:
euler wrote:I got 176 on my first take in June, which is around the level I had PT-ed, but certainly have a chance to improve in September with much fewer things on mind (this semester had been crazy with all sorts of unexpected deadlines).

I guess the number per se is OK, but I'm finishing my undergrad in a really obscure university in China (obscure even to the general public in China), which I think could be a big disadvantage (not sure how big though) when other applicants from my country are almost all top 5 universities.

I seem to have average or even below average softs. The only things worth noting may be an online video program that I started (which got home page exposure from what used to be one of the two largest video sites in the country) on English learning, one year helping the local community (mostly elderly people) in English learning, and running a blog of sort (called wechat public account here) of modest following again on English learning.

Due to financial constraints and that non-citizens don't get federal loans, my only chance at US law school would be YHS (with institutional loans) or full rides from other T-14s (anything lower might not produce a career that offers enough financial compensation to justify the cost and energy).

I've heard that Y and S admit few applicants without a US undergrad GPA, and full rides from other law schools are rarely given to aliens, so H (which is said to place a great focus on numbers) seems my best chance. Yet a 176 does not seem to be particularly safe for H (or is it?). That's why I'm registered for a retake in September, but extremely unsure about whether this is needed.

It would help a lot if anyone with similar experience (international GPA, similar LSAT) could share your ideas, and advice in general is also welcomed!


don't think a 176 lsat will keep you out of anywhere, but i've heard the admissions work slightly different from international gpa.

are you a non native speaker of english? 176 is very out of ordinary for a non native from an obscure university in china.


Right, it is said (in the international candidate community) that you need to have a substantially higher LSAT to get into a law school than a typical law school candidate, though I'm not sure how much higher. They say law schools have quotas for international candidates and despite the growing number of people applying, the quotas haven't changed much, so the bar is getting higher and higher.

I am a native of China and started seriously learning English three years ago. I was very frustrated by getting into a university far below my expectation and have worked my ass off since then to sort of compensate for that. At any rate, I guess English proficiency of this level is expected from a Harvard candidate.

I do think I am kind of an unconventional candidate, even among international candidates. That's why I'm so uncertain about my chances, because there is really no precedent I can rely on.

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby appind » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:09 pm

euler wrote:
Right, it is said (in the international candidate community) that you need to have a substantially higher LSAT to get into a law school than a typical law school candidate, though I'm not sure how much higher. They say law schools have quotas for international candidates and despite the growing number of people applying, the quotas haven't changed much, so the bar is getting higher and higher.

I am a native of China and started seriously learning English three years ago. I was very frustrated by getting into a university far below my expectation and have worked my ass off since then to sort of compensate for that. At any rate, I guess English proficiency of this level is expected from a Harvard candidate.

I do think I am kind of an unconventional candidate, even among international candidates. That's why I'm so uncertain about my chances, because there is really no precedent I can rely on.


you learned english in the last 3 years and got a 176 on the lsat, that's unheard of. can you describe how you prepped, esp lr and rc? major?

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby Babum » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:43 pm

euler wrote:
Babum wrote:
euler wrote:and full rides from other law schools are rarely given to aliens.


I don't think this is correct. I got full rides at every school that accepted me, with the exception of the school that I am attending. Unless I am the rarely.

Wow, that's impressive! Do you have a US undergrad GPA (because I really meant aliens with an international GPA)? And I would really appreciate it if you could share your LSAT score and how good your softs were in general terms.


Nope, as foreign as it gets. I had an above average. No impressive softs. Shoot me a PM for the rest.

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby Babum » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:48 pm

euler wrote:
appind wrote:
euler wrote:I got 176 on my first take in June, which is around the level I had PT-ed, but certainly have a chance to improve in September with much fewer things on mind (this semester had been crazy with all sorts of unexpected deadlines).

I guess the number per se is OK, but I'm finishing my undergrad in a really obscure university in China (obscure even to the general public in China), which I think could be a big disadvantage (not sure how big though) when other applicants from my country are almost all top 5 universities.

I seem to have average or even below average softs. The only things worth noting may be an online video program that I started (which got home page exposure from what used to be one of the two largest video sites in the country) on English learning, one year helping the local community (mostly elderly people) in English learning, and running a blog of sort (called wechat public account here) of modest following again on English learning.

Due to financial constraints and that non-citizens don't get federal loans, my only chance at US law school would be YHS (with institutional loans) or full rides from other T-14s (anything lower might not produce a career that offers enough financial compensation to justify the cost and energy).

I've heard that Y and S admit few applicants without a US undergrad GPA, and full rides from other law schools are rarely given to aliens, so H (which is said to place a great focus on numbers) seems my best chance. Yet a 176 does not seem to be particularly safe for H (or is it?). That's why I'm registered for a retake in September, but extremely unsure about whether this is needed.

It would help a lot if anyone with similar experience (international GPA, similar LSAT) could share your ideas, and advice in general is also welcomed!


don't think a 176 lsat will keep you out of anywhere, but i've heard the admissions work slightly different from international gpa.

are you a non native speaker of english? 176 is very out of ordinary for a non native from an obscure university in china.


Right, it is said (in the international candidate community) that you need to have a substantially higher LSAT to get into a law school than a typical law school candidate, though I'm not sure how much higher. They say law schools have quotas for international candidates and despite the growing number of people applying, the quotas haven't changed much, so the bar is getting higher and higher.

I am a native of China and started seriously learning English three years ago. I was very frustrated by getting into a university far below my expectation and have worked my ass off since then to sort of compensate for that. At any rate, I guess English proficiency of this level is expected from a Harvard candidate.

I do think I am kind of an unconventional candidate, even among international candidates. That's why I'm so uncertain about my chances, because there is really no precedent I can rely on.


I have said this before and I will say it again, nothing good comes out of the self-serving circular logic that the TLS groupthink gives to its users. Take TLS for what it is, anecdotal evidence, nothing more. 176 superior is a great position to be in and I am sure that you will do great at almost every school you apply to. Make sure you put enough time and effort into your personal statement (which I believe the Yale Dean of Admissions says is the toughest part for a foreigner).

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby euler » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:22 pm

Babum wrote:
euler wrote:
appind wrote:
euler wrote:I got 176 on my first take in June, which is around the level I had PT-ed, but certainly have a chance to improve in September with much fewer things on mind (this semester had been crazy with all sorts of unexpected deadlines).

I guess the number per se is OK, but I'm finishing my undergrad in a really obscure university in China (obscure even to the general public in China), which I think could be a big disadvantage (not sure how big though) when other applicants from my country are almost all top 5 universities.

I seem to have average or even below average softs. The only things worth noting may be an online video program that I started (which got home page exposure from what used to be one of the two largest video sites in the country) on English learning, one year helping the local community (mostly elderly people) in English learning, and running a blog of sort (called wechat public account here) of modest following again on English learning.

Due to financial constraints and that non-citizens don't get federal loans, my only chance at US law school would be YHS (with institutional loans) or full rides from other T-14s (anything lower might not produce a career that offers enough financial compensation to justify the cost and energy).

I've heard that Y and S admit few applicants without a US undergrad GPA, and full rides from other law schools are rarely given to aliens, so H (which is said to place a great focus on numbers) seems my best chance. Yet a 176 does not seem to be particularly safe for H (or is it?). That's why I'm registered for a retake in September, but extremely unsure about whether this is needed.

It would help a lot if anyone with similar experience (international GPA, similar LSAT) could share your ideas, and advice in general is also welcomed!


don't think a 176 lsat will keep you out of anywhere, but i've heard the admissions work slightly different from international gpa.

are you a non native speaker of english? 176 is very out of ordinary for a non native from an obscure university in china.


Right, it is said (in the international candidate community) that you need to have a substantially higher LSAT to get into a law school than a typical law school candidate, though I'm not sure how much higher. They say law schools have quotas for international candidates and despite the growing number of people applying, the quotas haven't changed much, so the bar is getting higher and higher.

I am a native of China and started seriously learning English three years ago. I was very frustrated by getting into a university far below my expectation and have worked my ass off since then to sort of compensate for that. At any rate, I guess English proficiency of this level is expected from a Harvard candidate.

I do think I am kind of an unconventional candidate, even among international candidates. That's why I'm so uncertain about my chances, because there is really no precedent I can rely on.


I have said this before and I will say it again, nothing good comes out of the self-serving circular logic that the TLS groupthink gives to its users. Take TLS for what it is, anecdotal evidence, nothing more. 176 superior is a great position to be in and I am sure that you will do great at almost every school you apply to. Make sure you put enough time and effort into your personal statement (which I believe the Yale Dean of Admissions says is the toughest part for a foreigner).


Thank you very much for your advice. I do plan to spend the better part of my spare time this summer crafting the personal statement. I believe I have a special life story to tell. The difficulty would be putting so many things that have happened to me into a coherent story contained in a two-page essay.

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby nerdylsat » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:47 pm

appind wrote:
euler wrote:
Right, it is said (in the international candidate community) that you need to have a substantially higher LSAT to get into a law school than a typical law school candidate, though I'm not sure how much higher. They say law schools have quotas for international candidates and despite the growing number of people applying, the quotas haven't changed much, so the bar is getting higher and higher.

I am a native of China and started seriously learning English three years ago. I was very frustrated by getting into a university far below my expectation and have worked my ass off since then to sort of compensate for that. At any rate, I guess English proficiency of this level is expected from a Harvard candidate.

I do think I am kind of an unconventional candidate, even among international candidates. That's why I'm so uncertain about my chances, because there is really no precedent I can rely on.


you learned english in the last 3 years and got a 176 on the lsat, that's unheard of. can you describe how you prepped, esp lr and rc? major?


I'm a non-native speaker and I honestly can't believe that to be true. No-one I know who studied english for 3 years could come even close to that.

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby euler » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:00 pm

nerdylsat wrote:
appind wrote:
euler wrote:
Right, it is said (in the international candidate community) that you need to have a substantially higher LSAT to get into a law school than a typical law school candidate, though I'm not sure how much higher. They say law schools have quotas for international candidates and despite the growing number of people applying, the quotas haven't changed much, so the bar is getting higher and higher.

I am a native of China and started seriously learning English three years ago. I was very frustrated by getting into a university far below my expectation and have worked my ass off since then to sort of compensate for that. At any rate, I guess English proficiency of this level is expected from a Harvard candidate.

I do think I am kind of an unconventional candidate, even among international candidates. That's why I'm so uncertain about my chances, because there is really no precedent I can rely on.


you learned english in the last 3 years and got a 176 on the lsat, that's unheard of. can you describe how you prepped, esp lr and rc? major?


I'm a non-native speaker and I honestly can't believe that to be true. No-one I know who studied english for 3 years could come even close to that.


Haha, I think you are a bit too focused on that 3-year number. I said I started SERIOUSLY learning it 3 years ago, meaning learning it very very very very hard for 3 years, like for 50, 60 hours per week. Before college, I also studied English in school, but almost for the sole purpose of getting by in exams (I could barely speak any English in real life straight out of high school).

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby appind » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:29 pm

euler wrote:
nerdylsat wrote:
I'm a non-native speaker and I honestly can't believe that to be true. No-one I know who studied english for 3 years could come even close to that.


Haha, I think you are a bit too focused on that 3-year number. I said I started SERIOUSLY learning it 3 years ago, meaning learning it very very very very hard for 3 years, like for 50, 60 hours per week. Before college, I also studied English in school, but almost for the sole purpose of getting by in exams (I could barely speak any English in real life straight out of high school).


i think your score is very exceptional and genius level considering you are non-native. srsly, are you well known as some sort of a prodigy? you should give tips on how you prepped in the lsat study group. did you prep by yourself or did something specific for lr/rc?

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby run26.2 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:41 pm

Dude, all I have to say is that if you can pick things up this quickly with hard work, unless you want to devote yourself to a low paying career (relative to what you could be earning, and at least for the early part of it) because you are idealistic, then go work in business. You will have more money and, more importantly, more free time.

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby euler » Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:21 am

euler wrote:I got 176 on my first take in June, which is around the level I had PT-ed, but certainly have a chance to improve in September with much fewer things on mind (this semester had been crazy with all sorts of unexpected deadlines).

I guess the number per se is OK, but I'm finishing my undergrad in a really obscure university in China (obscure even to the general public in China), which I think could be a big disadvantage (not sure how big though) when other applicants from my country are almost all from top 5 universities.

I seem to have average or even below average softs. The only things worth noting may be an online video program that I started (which got home page exposure from what used to be one of the two largest video sites in the country) on English learning, one year helping the local community (mostly elderly people) in English learning, and running a blog of sort (called wechat public account here) of modest following again on English learning.

Due to financial constraints and that non-citizens don't get federal loans, my only chance at US law school would be YHS (with institutional loans) or full rides from other T-14s (anything lower might not produce a career that offers enough financial compensation to justify the cost and energy).

I've heard that Y and S admit few applicants without a US undergrad GPA, and full rides from other law schools are rarely given to aliens, so H (which is said to place a great focus on numbers) seems my best chance. Yet a 176 does not seem to be particularly safe for H (or is it?). That's why I'm registered for a retake in September, but extremely unsure about whether this is needed.

It would help a lot if anyone with similar experience (international GPA, similar LSAT) could share your ideas, and advice in general is also welcome!

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby pancakes3 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:13 am

You should kill the GMATs, play up your rural chinese background and entrepreneurship, and apply to business schools. i'm sure all of the m7 would love your background and you can probably do more good for the world with a world-class MBA than a law degree.

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby Nebby » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:23 am

pancakes3 wrote:You should kill the GMATs, play up your rural chinese background and entrepreneurship, and apply to business schools. i'm sure all of the m7 would love your background and you can probably do more good for the world with a world-class MBA than a law degree.

What

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby Hildegard15 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:13 pm

Dcc617 wrote:A 176 won't be the thing that keeps you out of Harvard. Maybe try to improve your soft factors and make sure that your application is tight.

For what it's worth, I got in with a 176 and a GPA below the 25th. I also have pretty decent work experience.


DC told me the bolded probably a hundred times during the application cycle (except 174 instead of 176) and he's right.

OP I totally get what you're feeling. I was super stressed about whether I'd done enough on the LSAT to get into HLS. And I really can't speak to how being an international student without a GPA will affect your cycle. In the Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists forum there are spreadsheets from this cycle and prior cycles so you can go take a look and see how past international applicants without a specific GPA faired at all the schools. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=7

That said, if you really feel like you can score a couple points higher and it will give you peace of mind, go ahead. I just don't think a 177 will make too much of a difference as opposed to focusing on compiling the best narrative you can. Honestly, being a KJD applicant might hurt you more than not having a GPA. This past cycle Harvard rejected some pretty stellar applicants and the common thread seemed to be that they were KJD. But even if you don't get one of the big 3, you are going to probably be looking at some serious money from other schools. Good luck! You're going to have a great cycle I'm sure.

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Re: 176 / international GPA Superior, retake for H?

Postby euler » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:02 pm

Hildegard15 wrote:
Dcc617 wrote:A 176 won't be the thing that keeps you out of Harvard. Maybe try to improve your soft factors and make sure that your application is tight.

For what it's worth, I got in with a 176 and a GPA below the 25th. I also have pretty decent work experience.


DC told me the bolded probably a hundred times during the application cycle (except 174 instead of 176) and he's right.

OP I totally get what you're feeling. I was super stressed about whether I'd done enough on the LSAT to get into HLS. And I really can't speak to how being an international student without a GPA will affect your cycle. In the Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists forum there are spreadsheets from this cycle and prior cycles so you can go take a look and see how past international applicants without a specific GPA faired at all the schools. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=7

That said, if you really feel like you can score a couple points higher and it will give you peace of mind, go ahead. I just don't think a 177 will make too much of a difference as opposed to focusing on compiling the best narrative you can. Honestly, being a KJD applicant might hurt you more than not having a GPA. This past cycle Harvard rejected some pretty stellar applicants and the common thread seemed to be that they were KJD. But even if you don't get one of the big 3, you are going to probably be looking at some serious money from other schools. Good luck! You're going to have a great cycle I'm sure.


Really grateful for the empathy. I did look into those spreadsheets, and international GPA does not seem to matter that much as long as it's Above Average or Superior. To counter that though, most of the data come from those with WE, which, as you said, does not bode well for me. But I think I did something interesting during school that could somewhat compensate for the lack of real world experience most KJDs have.

At any rate, really thank you for your advice. I hope things will turn out well!



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