Plagiarism and feeling hopeless Forum

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Broncos15

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by Broncos15 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:17 pm

This is the academic equivalent of

“I would equate what (Tom Brady) did to driving 66 (mph) in a 65 speed zone — and getting the death penalty,”


( assuming the only issue is how strictly the professor chose to define plagiarism )

Gelato1

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by Gelato1 » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:27 pm

Hi everyone - thanks for your comments.

I do not mean to spin this - I committed plagiarism. In my addendum I would in no way DREAM of spinning this

I have contacted Anna Ivey and am in the process of setting up a meeting with the law school's director of Student Life.

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by Tiny123 » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:30 pm

Gelato1 wrote:Hi everyone,

Long time lurker unveiled.

This past fall, as a Junior in college, I was cited for plagiarism. I provided citations but did not cite properly, aka did not put quotes around the content that was more or less verbatim. It is a serious case of plagiarism. I am compassionate to myself and recognize that this was a huge learning experience.

What steps should I be taking now so that when I disclose the incident I have a still have a strong case for admission? Should I ask for a letter from the dean or from the professor who cited me for the plagiarism, on my behalf? I don't have an excellent relationship with the professor but I imagine she would be willing to make amends if I explain my situation. Should I take time off after school to work?

Members of my family work in BigLaw and they have told me that Law school is not worth my time unless I attend a T14 school. I really do think that I want to study the law and practice as a lawyer. I think it is what I want to do above all else. Is it possible to have a legal career if I don't attend a top school? I am from Boston, where there are strong regional schools, such as BC. Is it a waste of time to go there? I really think that Law is the place for me. I believe the incident pointed me in the right direction and I am in many ways grateful, as much as remorseful, for the experience.
OP, Here is some advice from someone been through this before. (He applied to Business school in the end though)

My boyfriend got caught cheating for copying from another student's test at final exam. (He did. Guilty as charged) I think that might be more serious than your case because you cant really spin it.
That was over a year ago and he was a junior too. First he retook that class with the same teacher got a A without cheating. Then this summer before senior year he talked to everyone that was involved in this case, the TA that caught him, the professor, department adviser, department dean and whoever review his case.
He APOLOGIZED to the professor, and explained he did not have enough time to study before the exam because he had three exams, and he made a mistake during the moment of weakness. Later with the A he approved he is a hard working student and he means to work hard. (And he bought himself some favor from the teacher with the his high grade).
In the end his professor and his adviser for that class agreed to write a letter to the department to find out if they can changed to record to a internal record, so the record will be on department file until graduation (if he do it again he will be kick out of the school) but not on his transcript. The dean promised he will look into it. The decision is out yet, but even this did not work, the professor agreed to write a letter to the business school he will be applying to explain that he was just having a bad moment, not that he is a dishonest person. He can work hard to get a good grade, again the A later on proved that.
My boyfriend also emailed all the business school on his applying list explain the situation, with the fact that the professor is willing to stand out and put in some good words for him, most of the school said they will take this into consideration and will not be a deal breaker. (Beside some of the top school is being pretty vague about it).

The best advice is try to fix it, own it, and try to make people like to and stand out for you. It is not the end of the world because you copied a page of paper from someone else when you are 20 years old.

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by Gelato1 » Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:55 pm

Tiny123 wrote:
Gelato1 wrote:Hi everyone,
Tiny123 wrote:
Gelato1 wrote:Hi everyone,

Long time lurker unveiled.

This past fall, as a Junior in college, I was cited for plagiarism. I provided citations but did not cite properly, aka did not put quotes around the content that was more or less verbatim. It is a serious case of plagiarism. I am compassionate to myself and recognize that this was a huge learning experience.

What steps should I be taking now so that when I disclose the incident I have a still have a strong case for admission? Should I ask for a letter from the dean or from the professor who cited me for the plagiarism, on my behalf? I don't have an excellent relationship with the professor but I imagine she would be willing to make amends if I explain my situation. Should I take time off after school to work?

Members of my family work in BigLaw and they have told me that Law school is not worth my time unless I attend a T14 school. I really do think that I want to study the law and practice as a lawyer. I think it is what I want to do above all else. Is it possible to have a legal career if I don't attend a top school? I am from Boston, where there are strong regional schools, such as BC. Is it a waste of time to go there? I really think that Law is the place for me. I believe the incident pointed me in the right direction and I am in many ways grateful, as much as remorseful, for the experience.
OP, Here is some advice from someone been through this before. (He applied to Business school in the end though)

My boyfriend got caught cheating for copying from another student's test at final exam. (He did. Guilty as charged) I think that might be more serious than your case because you cant really spin it.
That was over a year ago and he was a junior too. First he retook that class with the same teacher got a A without cheating. Then this summer before senior year he talked to everyone that was involved in this case, the TA that caught him, the professor, department adviser, department dean and whoever review his case.
He APOLOGIZED to the professor, and explained he did not have enough time to study before the exam because he had three exams, and he made a mistake during the moment of weakness. Later with the A he approved he is a hard working student and he means to work hard. (And he bought himself some favor from the teacher with the his high grade).
In the end his professor and his adviser for that class agreed to write a letter to the department to find out if they can changed to record to a internal record, so the record will be on department file until graduation (if he do it again he will be kick out of the school) but not on his transcript. The dean promised he will look into it. The decision is out yet, but even this did not work, the professor agreed to write a letter to the business school he will be applying to explain that he was just having a bad moment, not that he is a dishonest person. He can work hard to get a good grade, again the A later on proved that.
My boyfriend also emailed all the business school on his applying list explain the situation, with the fact that the professor is willing to stand out and put in some good words for him, most of the school said they will take this into consideration and will not be a deal breaker. (Beside some of the top school is being pretty vague about it).

The best advice is try to fix it, own it, and try to make people like to and stand out for you. It is not the end of the world because you copied a page of paper from someone else when you are 20 years old.
Tiny123 wrote:
Gelato1 wrote:Hi everyone,

Long time lurker unveiled.

This past fall, as a Junior in college, I was cited for plagiarism. I provided citations but did not cite properly, aka did not put quotes around the content that was more or less verbatim. It is a serious case of plagiarism. I am compassionate to myself and recognize that this was a huge learning experience.

What steps should I be taking now so that when I disclose the incident I have a still have a strong case for admission? Should I ask for a letter from the dean or from the professor who cited me for the plagiarism, on my behalf? I don't have an excellent relationship with the professor but I imagine she would be willing to make amends if I explain my situation. Should I take time off after school to work?

Members of my family work in BigLaw and they have told me that Law school is not worth my time unless I attend a T14 school. I really do think that I want to study the law and practice as a lawyer. I think it is what I want to do above all else. Is it possible to have a legal career if I don't attend a top school? I am from Boston, where there are strong regional schools, such as BC. Is it a waste of time to go there? I really think that Law is the place for me. I believe the incident pointed me in the right direction and I am in many ways grateful, as much as remorseful, for the experience.
OP, Here is some advice from someone been through this before. (He applied to Business school in the end though)

My boyfriend got caught cheating for copying from another student's test at final exam. (He did. Guilty as charged) I think that might be more serious than your case because you cant really spin it.
That was over a year ago and he was a junior too. First he retook that class with the same teacher got a A without cheating. Then this summer before senior year he talked to everyone that was involved in this case, the TA that caught him, the professor, department adviser, department dean and whoever review his case.
He APOLOGIZED to the professor, and explained he did not have enough time to study before the exam because he had three exams, and he made a mistake during the moment of weakness. Later with the A he approved he is a hard working student and he means to work hard. (And he bought himself some favor from the teacher with the his high grade).
In the end his professor and his adviser for that class agreed to write a letter to the department to find out if they can changed to record to a internal record, so the record will be on department file until graduation (if he do it again he will be kick out of the school) but not on his transcript. The dean promised he will look into it. The decision is out yet, but even this did not work, the professor agreed to write a letter to the business school he will be applying to explain that he was just having a bad moment, not that he is a dishonest person. He can work hard to get a good grade, again the A later on proved that.
My boyfriend also emailed all the business school on his applying list explain the situation, with the fact that the professor is willing to stand out and put in some good words for him, most of the school said they will take this into consideration and will not be a deal breaker. (Beside some of the top school is being pretty vague about it).

The best advice is try to fix it, own it, and try to make people like to and stand out for you. It is not the end of the world because you copied a page of paper from someone else when you are 20 years old.
Long time lurker unveiled.

This past fall, as a Junior in college, I was cited for plagiarism. I provided citations but did not cite properly, aka did not put quotes around the content that was more or less verbatim. It is a serious case of plagiarism. I am compassionate to myself and recognize that this was a huge learning experience.

What steps should I be taking now so that when I disclose the incident I have a still have a strong case for admission? Should I ask for a letter from the dean or from the professor who cited me for the plagiarism, on my behalf? I don't have an excellent relationship with the professor but I imagine she would be willing to make amends if I explain my situation. Should I take time off after school to work?

Members of my family work in BigLaw and they have told me that Law school is not worth my time unless I attend a T14 school. I really do think that I want to study the law and practice as a lawyer. I think it is what I want to do above all else. Is it possible to have a legal career if I don't attend a top school? I am from Boston, where there are strong regional schools, such as BC. Is it a waste of time to go there? I really think that Law is the place for me. I believe the incident pointed me in the right direction and I am in many ways grateful, as much as remorseful, for the experience.
OP, Here is some advice from someone been through this before. (He applied to Business school in the end though)

My boyfriend got caught cheating for copying from another student's test at final exam. (He did. Guilty as charged) I think that might be more serious than your case because you cant really spin it.
That was over a year ago and he was a junior too. First he retook that class with the same teacher got a A without cheating. Then this summer before senior year he talked to everyone that was involved in this case, the TA that caught him, the professor, department adviser, department dean and whoever review his case.
He APOLOGIZED to the professor, and explained he did not have enough time to study before the exam because he had three exams, and he made a mistake during the moment of weakness. Later with the A he approved he is a hard working student and he means to work hard. (And he bought himself some favor from the teacher with the his high grade).
In the end his professor and his adviser for that class agreed to write a letter to the department to find out if they can changed to record to a internal record, so the record will be on department file until graduation (if he do it again he will be kick out of the school) but not on his transcript. The dean promised he will look into it. The decision is out yet, but even this did not work, the professor agreed to write a letter to the business school he will be applying to explain that he was just having a bad moment, not that he is a dishonest person. He can work hard to get a good grade, again the A later on proved that.
My boyfriend also emailed all the business school on his applying list explain the situation, with the fact that the professor is willing to stand out and put in some good words for him, most of the school said they will take this into consideration and will not be a deal breaker. (Beside some of the top school is being pretty vague about it).

The best advice is try to fix it, own it, and try to make people like to and stand out for you. It is not the end of the world because you copied a page of paper from someone else when you are 20 years old.

Hi - Thank-you so much for this thoughtful advice. I have talked to the professor, apologized, and we are meeting again next week. I have also set up a time with the dean who handled my situation. For my own moral sanity I will be re-taking the class this Spring. I don't know what the outcomes will be but that matters less to me than proving to myself, and those around me that were involved in the incident, that I made a mistake which does not reflect my overall person/character.

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HxAxDxExS

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by HxAxDxExS » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:55 am

I get that you want to do good to attend "top law" and by the way you feel "hopeless" I can assume that when you plagiarized you did so to do better. But if you would've went without it, it would be better than it is now right? Oh well, It is what it is, the way I see it is you will do anything to get into law school, although don't confuse that with not caring about integrity. It is like cheating on a test, your teacher will say its not fair to your classmates, then you can say "Well, my classmates don't want to go to law school, therefore, I need a 4.0, and I will get it :D" But plagiarism and being cited for it, I can't say how it would affect your admissions. As long as you show how you learned from it and have time to improve on it the rest of your undegrad. If you absolutely feel you have to, file an addendum with every app. And"law school isnt worth it unless you get into T14 thing" is bogus. I mean yes a T14 degree is nice. What would you say for a situation of a person that for whatever reason doesn't get into T14 but wants to become a lawyer(btw, that person is not me)Or a doctor that still wants to practice whatever he wants to practice that doesn't get into T14 Med? Law school is always worth it. No matter what. Your family just wants you to attend a T14 school, and that's great. But it is always worth it. Don't feel hopeless, again, it is what it is, just try to have the highest GPA. Yes, Integrity is huge, but it is what it is.

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Hutz_and_Goodman

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by Hutz_and_Goodman » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:52 am

I have a friend who committed much more serious academic fraud and got into law school and graduated order of the coif. This is not a fatal error. However appeal it, maybe hire a lawyer because it will be much easier if this is expunged. I think you will have to disclose this in c+f portion of bar application.

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togoornottogo

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by togoornottogo » Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:20 am

HxAxDxExS wrote:I get that you want to do good to attend "top law" and by the way you feel "hopeless" I can assume that when you plagiarized you did so to do better. But if you would've went without it, it would be better than it is now right? Oh well, It is what it is, the way I see it is you will do anything to get into law school, although don't confuse that with not caring about integrity. It is like cheating on a test, your teacher will say its not fair to your classmates, then you can say "Well, my classmates don't want to go to law school, therefore, I need a 4.0, and I will get it :D" But plagiarism and being cited for it, I can't say how it would affect your admissions. As long as you show how you learned from it and have time to improve on it the rest of your undegrad. If you absolutely feel you have to, file an addendum with every app. And"law school isnt worth it unless you get into T14 thing" is bogus. I mean yes a T14 degree is nice. What would you say for a situation of a person that for whatever reason doesn't get into T14 but wants to become a lawyer(btw, that person is not me)Or a doctor that still wants to practice whatever he wants to practice that doesn't get into T14 Med? Law school is always worth it. No matter what. Your family just wants you to attend a T14 school, and that's great. But it is always worth it. Don't feel hopeless, again, it is what it is, just try to have the highest GPA. Yes, Integrity is huge, but it is what it is.
How is law school always worth it outside the T14? A lot of schools give you little better than a coinflip chance at actually becoming a lawyer. What they can certainly offer is crippling debt. Also med school is nowhere near law school because if you get into med school you have an almost guaranteed residency in 4 years. It is not even close.

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HxAxDxExS

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by HxAxDxExS » Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:53 am

togoornottogo wrote:
HxAxDxExS wrote:I get that you want to do good to attend "top law" and by the way you feel "hopeless" I can assume that when you plagiarized you did so to do better. But if you would've went without it, it would be better than it is now right? Oh well, It is what it is, the way I see it is you will do anything to get into law school, although don't confuse that with not caring about integrity. It is like cheating on a test, your teacher will say its not fair to your classmates, then you can say "Well, my classmates don't want to go to law school, therefore, I need a 4.0, and I will get it :D" But plagiarism and being cited for it, I can't say how it would affect your admissions. As long as you show how you learned from it and have time to improve on it the rest of your undegrad. If you absolutely feel you have to, file an addendum with every app. And"law school isnt worth it unless you get into T14 thing" is bogus. I mean yes a T14 degree is nice. What would you say for a situation of a person that for whatever reason doesn't get into T14 but wants to become a lawyer(btw, that person is not me)Or a doctor that still wants to practice whatever he wants to practice that doesn't get into T14 Med? Law school is always worth it. No matter what. Your family just wants you to attend a T14 school, and that's great. But it is always worth it. Don't feel hopeless, again, it is what it is, just try to have the highest GPA. Yes, Integrity is huge, but it is what it is.
How is law school always worth it outside the T14? A lot of schools give you little better than a coinflip chance at actually becoming a lawyer. What they can certainly offer is crippling debt. Also med school is nowhere near law school because if you get into med school you have an almost guaranteed residency in 4 years. It is not even close.
Your name says to go or not to go, I can safely assume you just won't understand what I am saying no matter how I break it down. If you want to be a lawyer, you go to law school. If you want to be a lawyer, law school is always worth it. If you're just a smart liberal arts major (or any major for that matter) then law school would be worth the amount of debt and the amount of stress from finding out of being in a graduate program you don't like or to find out you don't want to practice law, then have the large amount of work you are not passionate about defeat you would only be worth it if it is from a T14 Law School, one would argue, it isn't worth it anyway, right? For that person, I guess. But if you want to be a lawyer, you go to law school, and work with what you have
Last edited by HxAxDxExS on Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hand

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by Hand » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:09 am

HxAxDxExS wrote:If you want to be a lawyer, you go to law school. If you want to be a lawyer, law school is always worth it.
Beautiful.

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TheSpanishMain

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by TheSpanishMain » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:27 am

HxAxDxExS wrote:For that person, I guess. But if you want to be a lawyer, you go to law school. So, it is almost insulting when I read this time and time again.
You're missing the point in a huge way. If you really want to be a lawyer, it's critical that you go to a good school so you can actually get a job as a lawyer. Saying, "Well, I really want to be a lawyer, so I just need to go to law school somewhere." is dumb. There are a ton of schools that put very few graduates into actual legal jobs.

I'm not saying the only schools worth attending are in the T14, but law school is not "always worth it." If you have crappy numbers, you can pay a huge amount of money to scam schools like Cooley or Thomas Jefferson, but you're more likely to end up as a barista than an attorney. The goal is not to attend law school just so your parents can brag to their boomer friends. The goal is to end up in a good legal job without being crushed by debt.

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by ManoftheHour » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:14 pm

HxAxDxExS wrote:If you want to be a lawyer, you go to law school. If you want to be a lawyer, law school is always worth it.
lol, no. I definitely agree with the notion that is isn't T-14 or bust (mid T-1 full rider here). Schools like Texas, UCLA, Vandy are fab options on the cheap with ties. Even schools lower ranked schools like New Mexico and Arkansas have a place in this world for people who don't want biglaw, have ties, and can go for cheap. But there is no way that going to any law school is always worth it. Hell, there are schools like Indy Tech that are NEVER worth it.

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by HxAxDxExS » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:42 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
HxAxDxExS wrote:For that person, I guess. But if you want to be a lawyer, you go to law school. So, it is almost insulting when I read this time and time again.
You're missing the point in a huge way. If you really want to be a lawyer, it's critical that you go to a good school so you can actually get a job as a lawyer. Saying, "Well, I really want to be a lawyer, so I just need to go to law school somewhere." is dumb. There are a ton of schools that put very few graduates into actual legal jobs.

I'm not saying the only schools worth attending are in the T14, but law school is not "always worth it." If you have crappy numbers, you can pay a huge amount of money to scam schools like Cooley or Thomas Jefferson, but you're more likely to end up as a barista than an attorney. The goal is not to attend law school just so your parents can brag to their boomer friends. The goal is to end up in a good legal job without being crushed by debt.
Don't take the stuff below too personal, just effing with you and also applying some opinions (or facts) of mine :P. One should not be debating if "law school is worth it" Basically, I don't see any circumstances as to why those should meet in a sentence "law school" and "worth it". Additionally, I should be able to assume one's choices are from a list of the highest standards fit for that individual; and if one can, increase standards before applying. All I am saying is if you want to be a lawyer, please do not let anything discourage you. Work with what you have, and it will work with you! :-D
You're missing the point in a huge way. If you really want to be a lawyer,
I definitely understand that, hence, why I wrote in a former post (btw, this person is not me) and I understand how big integrity is in the admissions process, and for the bar in general.
so you can actually get a job as a lawyer.
It depends on what type of law you practice, and if you are the top person in your class or not, those two things taken in consideration can have dramatic different results regardless of what school. (ex. You have a BA and an MA in Chemistry, and are looking to get your J.D. and specialize in patent law, you graduate top of your class, for some reason, you weren't T14 or got accepted into T14 and decided against, it is still definitely worth it! I can give thousands of examples like this or more detailed ones, and even more living examples!
Saying, "Well, I really want to be a lawyer, so I just need to go to law school somewhere."
So, wanting to be a lawyer and picking from the list of schools one got accepted into is dumb?
If you have crappy numbers
4.0, not due for my LSAT this year, unfortunately :(
The goal is to end up in a good legal job without being crushed by debt
What if one is an entrepreneur? and is already in leading positions of a company, (owner, executive, member(llc), partner, etc.)

Kind regards
Last edited by HxAxDxExS on Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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HxAxDxExS

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by HxAxDxExS » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:10 pm

ManoftheHour wrote:
HxAxDxExS wrote:If you want to be a lawyer, you go to law school. If you want to be a lawyer, law school is always worth it.
lol, no. I definitely agree with the notion that is isn't T-14 or bust (mid T-1 full rider here). Schools like Texas, UCLA, Vandy are fab options on the cheap with ties. Even schools lower ranked schools like New Mexico and Arkansas have a place in this world for people who don't want biglaw, have ties, and can go for cheap. But there is no way that going to any law school is always worth it. Hell, there are schools like Indy Tech that are NEVER worth it.
Obviously those schools are worth it, or they would not be there, and you definitely would not of heard of them! They produce graduates, yes, some don't go on to practice law, but some do! Of course, you're not going to wake up one day and say you're going to (Insert local unaccredited law school here) But at the time being, if that is all you can get into, It's worth it. It's not like you can just go into a graduate program and later increase your chances of a better school. It would've been worth it for you to have high numbers and known you were going to law school as an undergraduate and planned to get into a top law program. If you seriously love the law, the one's you get into are worth it What you can do is graduate and entitle yourself to your career. Any accredited school is worth it, and any unaccredited school is worth it if you want to practice law in that specific state/ or have a source of doing so. Hell, i'm not saying go to any unaccredited law school you can think of, I will strongly advise against it; but as I have mentioned, you work with what you have and it will work with you. Yes, I can argue you would be better without the debt and matriculating/graduating. but can't one argue the same thing about going to the T14 schools? By saying only a certain few get the big jobs, then a certain few don't practice law/pass the bar, some schools have higher numbers, but if you know that being a lawyer is what you want to do, are passionate and disciplined, you can/will always be that winner

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TheSpanishMain

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by TheSpanishMain » Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:42 am

HxAxDxExS wrote: Don't take the stuff below too personal, just effing with you and also applying some opinions (or facts) of mine :P.
Don't worry, I'm not taking it personally. I hope you're not either. I just think you're giving terrible advice that has the potential to ruin lives.
HxAxDxExS wrote: One should not be debating if "law school is worth it" Basically, I don't see any circumstances as to why those should meet in a sentence "law school" and "worth it". Additionally, I should be able to assume one's choices are from a list of the highest standards fit for that individual; and if one can, increase standards before applying. All I am saying is if you want to be a lawyer, please do not let anything discourage you. Work with what you have, and it will work with you! :-D
No. There are many, many people for whom law school is not worth it. If someone has honestly maxed out their LSAT potential at a 143, then that person should absolutely give up on law school and find something else to do with their lives. This isn't an inspirational Lifetime movie and "lawyer" isn't some sacred calling to be pursued past the point of rationality. Being an adult means being honest about the cards you have to play.
HxAxDxExS wrote: I definitely understand that, hence, why I wrote in a former post (btw, this person is not me) and I understand how big integrity is in the admissions process, and for the bar in general.
I know you're not the OP. I'm not sure what integrity has to do with your (wrong) idea that law school is always worth it. I'm not talking about the OP specifically.
HxAxDxExS wrote: It depends on what type of law you practice, and if you are the top person in your class or not, those two things taken in consideration can have dramatic different results regardless of what school. (ex. You have a BA and an MA in Chemistry, and are looking to get your J.D. and specialize in patent law, you graduate top of your class, for some reason, you weren't T14 or got accepted into T14 and decided against, it is still definitely worth it! I can give thousands of examples like this or more detailed ones, and even more living examples!
:roll: Yes, of course, there are always exceptions. Even at a terrible school, there will be a few people who make it, whether it's because they have some very marketable niche background or because they're at the tippy top of the class. The point is that gambling three years of your life and a ton of money on being at the very top of your class is insanely stupid. It's like taking your life savings to Vegas and going all in on a bet with 5:1 odds against you. That's insane.
HxAxDxExS wrote: So, wanting to be a lawyer and picking from the list of schools one got accepted into is dumb?
Yes, if the list of schools you got accepted to all suck and don't put most of their graduates into decent jobs, then obviously, it's dumb to go there. This shouldn't be controversial.
HxAxDxExS wrote: 4.0, not due for my LSAT this year, unfortunately :(
Good for you (seriously). I'm not talking about you specifically, I'm talking about your contention that going to law school is always a defensible decision.
HxAxDxExS wrote: What if one is an entrepreneur? and is already in leading positions of a company, (owner, executive, member(llc), partner, etc.)
Uh, what if you're Vladimir Putin and it doesn't matter because you're job secure? You can always create these unlikely scenarios that won't apply to 99.999% of the TTTT student population. It doesn't help your argument.
HxAxDxExS wrote: Obviously those schools are worth it, or they would not be there, and you definitely would not of heard of them!
This is so painfully stupid I assume you must be trolling. Those schools are there to make money by exploiting naive students for federal loan dollars. Saying "they exist, so they must be worth it" is one of the dumbest things I've read on TLS.

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HxAxDxExS

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by HxAxDxExS » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:40 pm

Don't worry, I'm not taking it personally. I hope you're not either. I just think you're giving terrible advice that has the potential to ruin lives.
The potential to ruin lives? Like the Harvard Law grad who "doesn't even date, have a car, and lives with parents" and it is like the lottery, in order for some of us to be successful, there will always be the losers in this game. It is what it is. You can't save them all, yes you can help, but right now you're not helping.
No. There are many, many people for whom law school is not worth it. If someone has honestly maxed out their LSAT potential at a 143, then that person should absolutely give up on law school and find something else to do with their lives. This isn't an inspirational Lifetime movie and "lawyer" isn't some sacred calling to be pursued past the point of rationality. Being an adult means being honest about the cards you have to play.
Well, the profession is already filled with people that don't want to be in it, law school isn't some magical place. I' speak for the people that definitely already have an idea of WHY they are going into law in the first place....yes it can change, but its not some calling where "smart people" with high GPA's that just happened to take the LSAT and get a decent score, and now it should be "worth it" for.
:roll: Yes, of course, there are always exceptions. Even at a terrible school, there will be a few people who make it, whether it's because they have some very marketable niche background or because they're at the tippy top of the class. The point is that gambling three years of your life and a ton of money on being at the very top of your class is insanely stupid. It's like taking your life savings to Vegas and going all in on a bet with 5:1 odds against you. That's insane.
See how that analogy plays out to me? I live in Vegas.
Yes, if the list of schools you got accepted to all suck and don't put most of their graduates into decent jobs, then obviously, it's dumb to go there. This shouldn't be controversial.
I agree with you on that one. I'm not saying go to Thomas Jefferson University, and yes I can say: Well it is worth it based on if those are the only schools you have got accepted into because you still want to be a lawyer. then you say: No, it's not right, because going to these schools will not make you a "lawyer" I get that part, I truly do. I'm not saying go to any unaccredited law school, sometimes it may not be "worth it" as you say. For a prospective lawyer that want's a career in law, it is worth it (and it sounds stupid, but what else would they do?). I guess I just really am not a fan of "worth it" and "law school" in the same sentence.
Good for you (seriously). I'm not talking about you specifically, I'm talking about your contention that going to law school is always a defensible decision.
Well, it can be most of the time, and most of the time it isn't. It depends from the perspective of the viewer. Any disciplined Law School candidate can be successful in numerous different careers by planning their Grad School different. Hell, they can even still use those skills while obtaining a J.D. I guess I have to understand not everyone see's it the way I do. Like I told my wife when she got a tattoo last weekend If I were to get any tattoo's, they would be about law school. :P :P
Uh, what if you're Vladimir Putin and it doesn't matter because you're job secure? You can always create these unlikely scenarios that won't apply to 99.999% of the TTTT student population. It doesn't help your argument.
Wasn't asking just to ask. And yes it doesn't apply to 99.999% of the TTTT student population (you don't know that). One thing I can say is It definitely applies to me. So, instead of dicking around what I asked you, why not just give me a straightforward answer
This is so painfully stupid I assume you must be trolling. Those schools are there to make money by exploiting naive students for federal loan dollars. Saying "they exist, so they must be worth it" is one of the dumbest things I've read on TLS.
Haha, you have created such a correlation in your mind on these two subjects that are quiet negative. Yes, they are there to exploit students, (Come to Thomas Jefferson University, then they show a corporate law office, etc) When low percentage of their students pass the bar. As I have mentioned, I said the schools you get accepted into assuming that you have tried your hardest and knew early on you were going to law school. It isn't some place to baby-sit an indecisive undergrad who has good grades and got a good LSAT score, and magically fulfill one's dreams. It can only do one half of it Although, there is always two sides to it. It's up to you to accomplish the rest (Yes, to help you accomplish it, I would say you should go to the very best law school you can go to)

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by TheSpanishMain » Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:30 pm

HxAxDxExS wrote: Like I told my wife when she got a tattoo last weekend If I were to get any tattoo's, they would be about law school. :P :P
You were doing pretty well until this point, but this is where the trolling might have jumped the shark.

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HxAxDxExS

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by HxAxDxExS » Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:55 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
HxAxDxExS wrote: Like I told my wife when she got a tattoo last weekend If I were to get any tattoo's, they would be about law school. :P :P
You were doing pretty well until this point, but this is where the trolling might have jumped the shark.
Lol, just saying, I have made a commitment to law school and it is non-negotiable.

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by grizz20 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:26 pm

Gelato1 wrote:
I was cited for plagiarism. I provided citations but did not cite properly, aka did not put quotes around the content that was more or less verbatim. It is a serious case of plagiarism.
Seriously? Nothing other than missing quotations? If not, the prof is ridiculous and you should have appealed it. Really hard for me to believe that a prof would have done this for missing quotation marks and without asking you to explain yourself.
Gelato1 wrote: I really think that Law is the place for me. I believe the incident pointed me in the right direction and I am in many ways grateful, as much as remorseful, for the experience.
You better talk to someone who can help you. It will hurt you in the admissions cycle, and it will really hurt in a state's C&F.

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by grizz20 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:42 pm

OP:

Sorry. I didn't read the whole post before responding. I hope you can work it out with tge prof and dean.

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by Big Dog » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:05 pm

I am compassionate to myself and recognize that this was a huge learning experience.

You definitely need to put some time in working in the real world so you can put some time between your transgression and your LS applications.

(And the reason that you need to put some distance between this and LS is the above bolded sentence. Most kids learn not to plagiarize in middle school. As a 20-something, professional/grad schools will question your character -- and they should.)

The suggestion about using a counselor like Spivey is a good one.

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by IAmLawSchool » Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:35 pm

Big Dog wrote:
I am compassionate to myself and recognize that this was a huge learning experience.

You definitely need to put some time in working in the real world so you can put some time between your transgression and your LS applications.

(And the reason that you need to put some distance between this and LS is the above bolded sentence. Most kids learn not to plagiarize in middle school. As a 20-something, professional/grad schools will question your character -- and they should.)

The suggestion about using a counselor like Spivey is a good one.
Yes, and you definitely have to appeal it some way. I mean if the incident really happened how he said it did then an appeal would definitely do some good. If he can explain the situation and how much damage it will potentially do, and create an alternate route among the faculty members. Also, isn't he can explain himself, and fix the situation by saying he understands his mistake but he feels ...(then explain the damage it will do) then apologizing to the professor or something and have them classify it as an "in-house incident" ? Where only faculty members will see it and if he stays in good standing will graduate and not have this exposed on his transcripts.

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by Big Dog » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:41 pm

If he can explain the situation and how much damage it will potentially do,
do you really think that they are unaware? Academic dishonesty is the absolute worst thing that you can do on college, save for a sexual misconduct. (Being a card-carrying member of ISIS is more forgiving by academics.)

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by everton125 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:58 pm

HxAxDxExS wrote:I get that you want to do good to attend "top law" and by the way you feel "hopeless" I can assume that when you plagiarized you did so to do better. But if you would've went without it, it would be better than it is now right? Oh well, It is what it is, the way I see it is you will do anything to get into law school, although don't confuse that with not caring about integrity. It is like cheating on a test, your teacher will say its not fair to your classmates, then you can say "Well, my classmates don't want to go to law school, therefore, I need a 4.0, and I will get it :D" But plagiarism and being cited for it, I can't say how it would affect your admissions. As long as you show how you learned from it and have time to improve on it the rest of your undegrad. If you absolutely feel you have to, file an addendum with every app. And"law school isnt worth it unless you get into T14 thing" is bogus. I mean yes a T14 degree is nice. What would you say for a situation of a person that for whatever reason doesn't get into T14 but wants to become a lawyer(btw, that person is not me)Or a doctor that still wants to practice whatever he wants to practice that doesn't get into T14 Med? Law school is always worth it. No matter what. Your family just wants you to attend a T14 school, and that's great. But it is always worth it. Don't feel hopeless, again, it is what it is, just try to have the highest GPA. Yes, Integrity is huge, but it is what it is.
This is generally bad advice. Law school is not always worth it - it can cost a lot of money, and it can be very difficult to find legal work, particularly high paying legal work, upon graduation from a lot of schools. Even if you "really, really" want to be a lawyer, you should not just risk everything and go to top-law-schools.com is not just about your work; you may also "really, really" want to be debt free, make over 100k, have a family, or own a home. Some of these options might not be available if you go to a lower tier law school, and option #2 will be very unlikely indeed. I am not saying it might not be worth it at times to go to a school outside of the t14, but you need to weigh all the factors when making that decision, not just whether you want to be a lawyer or not.

Med school and law school are not at all analogous. Regardless of what med school you go to, if you graduate, you are pretty much guaranteed to get a job in the medical field. The same cannot be said about law school - outside of the top 30 or so schools, you have, at best, a 70% chance of finding a job as a lawyer, and a less than 10% chance of finding a job where you make over 100k a year.

If you are going to spew uninformed BS (which the rest of your posts made particularly clear that you are), you should probably not be offering advice.

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Re: Plagiarism and feeling hopeless

Post by A. Nony Mouse » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:54 pm

IAmLawSchool wrote:
Big Dog wrote:
I am compassionate to myself and recognize that this was a huge learning experience.

You definitely need to put some time in working in the real world so you can put some time between your transgression and your LS applications.

(And the reason that you need to put some distance between this and LS is the above bolded sentence. Most kids learn not to plagiarize in middle school. As a 20-something, professional/grad schools will question your character -- and they should.)

The suggestion about using a counselor like Spivey is a good one.
Yes, and you definitely have to appeal it some way. I mean if the incident really happened how he said it did then an appeal would definitely do some good. If he can explain the situation and how much damage it will potentially do, and create an alternate route among the faculty members. Also, isn't he can explain himself, and fix the situation by saying he understands his mistake but he feels ...(then explain the damage it will do) then apologizing to the professor or something and have them classify it as an "in-house incident" ? Where only faculty members will see it and if he stays in good standing will graduate and not have this exposed on his transcripts.
Appealing something on the grounds that "it will keep me out of law school" is really not the way to go. There may be other things to mitigate the situation (some kind of good reason why the OP didn't know they shouldn't do what they did, though I'm not sure what that is), but "I will have to suffer the consequences of my actions" is not one of them. Profs are well aware of the damage something like this can cause.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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