3.84+/164-166ish, T14 Chances?

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capnobvious123
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3.84+/164-166ish, T14 Chances?

Postby capnobvious123 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:33 pm

Hi all.

My undergrad GPA was a 3.84 from a small liberal arts college, and will likely come up by a tiny bit when my transcript from a community college where I took a class comes in and gets processed.

I'm taking the June LSAT, but at the moment I've been scoring in the 164-166 range for the last few (timed, proctored) practice tests.

As far as softs go, I have very, very good relationships with my undergrad professors, so I'm expecting outstanding LORs, graduated magna cum laude with distinguished honors in Philosophy, Phi beta kappa, ~5 years of teaching self defense focused martial arts classes for free on my college campus, presented a paper at the American Philosophical Association, working full time post-LSAT as a paralegal at a small legal firm, bi (is that worth writing about in a diversity statement, or?) but otherwise non-URM.

Penn is top choice, but generally interested in East Coast T14 schools. Have a shot? I'm anticipating retaking the LSAT in October hoping for a higher score with more time to practice.

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: 3.84+/164-166ish, T14 Chances?

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:38 pm

You'll be in good position with a 169+

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capnobvious123
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Re: 3.84+/164-166ish, T14 Chances?

Postby capnobvious123 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:42 pm

OhBoyOhBortles wrote:You'll be in good position with a 169+


Does that thereby imply that I'm in a bad position with a 166? Or just that it'd be a much safer bet with a 169+?

mamsiey
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Re: 3.84+/164-166ish, T14 Chances?

Postby mamsiey » Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:57 pm

capnobvious123 wrote:Hi all.

My undergrad GPA was a 3.84 from a small liberal arts college, and will likely come up by a tiny bit when my transcript from a community college where I took a class comes in and gets processed.

I'm taking the June LSAT, but at the moment I've been scoring in the 164-166 range for the last few (timed, proctored) practice tests.

As far as softs go, I have very, very good relationships with my undergrad professors, so I'm expecting outstanding LORs, graduated magna cum laude with distinguished honors in Philosophy, Phi beta kappa, ~5 years of teaching self defense focused martial arts classes for free on my college campus, presented a paper at the American Philosophical Association, working full time post-LSAT as a paralegal at a small legal firm, bi (is that worth writing about in a diversity statement, or?) but otherwise non-URM.

Penn is top choice, but generally interested in East Coast T14 schools. Have a shot? I'm anticipating retaking the LSAT in October hoping for a higher score with more time to practice.


You should be fine getting into UPenn as long as your Lsat score is in that range. UPenn is a sucker for higher gpas which you don't have a problem. Submit killer PS and LORs and you could get good scholly $$$. Better still aim higher on the LSAT, get into the mid 170s and you are looking at HYS! Good luck

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dnptan
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Re: 3.84+/164-166ish, T14 Chances?

Postby dnptan » Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:01 pm

IMO nothing too good for diversity, but if your motive behind martial arts is interesting enough, I can see it roll. The others are pretty common for T14 applicants.

Study hard, and aim for a 180. 170+ puts CCN into play. 173+ and HYS is within your reach.

Edit: didn't see Bi - that could also be a good DS topic if it caused you to do something above and beyond (activism etc.). Don't force it though. Adcomms are pretty good at figuring out if DSs are legit or filler. Sometimes, less is more.

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capnobvious123
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Re: 3.84+/164-166ish, T14 Chances?

Postby capnobvious123 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:22 pm

dnptan wrote:IMO nothing too good for diversity, but if your motive behind martial arts is interesting enough, I can see it roll. The others are pretty common for T14 applicants.

Study hard, and aim for a 180. 170+ puts CCN into play. 173+ and HYS is within your reach.

Edit: didn't see Bi - that could also be a good DS topic if it caused you to do something above and beyond (activism etc.). Don't force it though. Adcomms are pretty good at figuring out if DSs are legit or filler. Sometimes, less is more.


Yeah I'll absolutely be leveraging the martial arts angle, been teaching college kids free self-defense classes for years, so I'm sure that'll be somewhat helpful. Differentiates me at least.

Obviously I'll do as well as I can on the LSAT, but do you think 164-166 gives me a shot at Penn? Or not going to cut it?

I probably won't force the bi diversity statement, I haven't been involved in any sort of activism type activity and it hasn't really impacted my life in any meaningful way. Is it worth trying to mention off-hand somewhere in a PS or something, or will that sound forced and desperate?

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capnobvious123
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Re: 3.84+/164-166ish, T14 Chances?

Postby capnobvious123 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:24 pm

mamsiey wrote:You should be fine getting into UPenn as long as your Lsat score is in that range. UPenn is a sucker for higher gpas which you don't have a problem. Submit killer PS and LORs and you could get good scholly $$$. Better still aim higher on the LSAT, get into the mid 170s and you are looking at HYS! Good luck


That's really reassuring/good to hear. I'm pretty confident the LORs will be very, very strong, my professors and I are very close and they think more highly of me than I think of myself.

Would you also agree with the other poster that CCN would require a higher score in the 169 range? Or are they do-able with a 166 and a 3.84-3.86?

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dnptan
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Re: 3.84+/164-166ish, T14 Chances?

Postby dnptan » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:33 pm

capnobvious123 wrote:
mamsiey wrote:You should be fine getting into UPenn as long as your Lsat score is in that range. UPenn is a sucker for higher gpas which you don't have a problem. Submit killer PS and LORs and you could get good scholly $$$. Better still aim higher on the LSAT, get into the mid 170s and you are looking at HYS! Good luck


That's really reassuring/good to hear. I'm pretty confident the LORs will be very, very strong, my professors and I are very close and they think more highly of me than I think of myself.

Would you also agree with the other poster that CCN would require a higher score in the 169 range? Or are they do-able with a 166 and a 3.84-3.86?


At the high level anything is possible. Likely? No, but possible? Yes. Even the most passionate LoR can fall flat if there are too many of "your kind" in the class. For instance at my interview they asked me to specifically state if patent law was still my focus - one can only assume it's what they were looking for to complete the class. But that's speculation.

Focus on your LSAT. It's the single biggest thing that can determine your cycle right now. What I can say is that with your GPA, sending apps to HYSCCN is not a mistake. It's worth the $100 to know for sure. I mean, you're spending a lot of money for LS, what's $100? Obviously this goes for Penn as well. But don't hesitate to send apps to a few schools below your target unless you're willing to accept the possibility of 0 acceptances in the cycle. It can happen.

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capnobvious123
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Re: 3.84+/164-166ish, T14 Chances?

Postby capnobvious123 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:40 pm

dnptan wrote:At the high level anything is possible. Likely? No, but possible? Yes. Even the most passionate LoR can fall flat if there are too many of "your kind" in the class. For instance at my interview they asked me to specifically state if patent law was still my focus - one can only assume it's what they were looking for to complete the class. But that's speculation.

Focus on your LSAT. It's the single biggest thing that can determine your cycle right now. What I can say is that with your GPA, sending apps to HYSCCN is not a mistake. It's worth the $100 to know for sure. I mean, you're spending a lot of money for LS, what's $100? Obviously this goes for Penn as well. But don't hesitate to send apps to a few schools below your target unless you're willing to accept the possibility of 0 acceptances in the cycle. It can happen.


Makes sense. Hopefully my June LSAT does fall in my practice test range or better, and maybe by October I'll gain a few points and be able to consider HYS more seriously, at this point talking about that and CCN still seems like a bad joke.

I know you just said anything can happen, but do you think I could be relatively confident about acceptances at schools lower on the T14 list? Cornell, UVA, Georgetown, Duke? Still just as feasible to get in/get denied either way?

I guess I'll see how June/October go. At this point since everything seems so close and I want Penn/T14 so bad, if I don't get accepted this cycle I may just reapply for the next. Hopefully the class of 2014's employment numbers at Penn weren't a fluke and continue to stay strong, with those continued lower applicant numbers.

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dnptan
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Re: 3.84+/164-166ish, T14 Chances?

Postby dnptan » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:52 pm

I think you can be confident, but don't be cocky. Always have a plan B or even C in case it doesn't go your way. Check out LSN.

I remember being in your shoes 2 years ago when I first started applying. TLS is both exciting and neurotic - so take care. FYI I applied 3 times before I finally got into the school I want so if you have any questions just PM me. Good luck!

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TasmanianToucan
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Re: 3.84+/164-166ish, T14 Chances?

Postby TasmanianToucan » Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:04 pm

Take a look at these two websites:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/ to follow a cycle and see specific data points
http://mylsn.info/ to get a good idea of your chances with a given set of numbers

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capnobvious123
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Re: 3.84+/164-166ish, T14 Chances?

Postby capnobvious123 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:49 pm

TasmanianToucan wrote:Take a look at these two websites:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/ to follow a cycle and see specific data points
http://mylsn.info/ to get a good idea of your chances with a given set of numbers


Thanks! I actually already have a LSN account and have been checking/updating that neurotically every time I do better on an LSAT practice test. Haven't checked out mylsn yet though, so I'll poke around there.

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capnobvious123
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Re: 3.84+/164-166ish, T14 Chances?

Postby capnobvious123 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:50 pm

dnptan wrote:I think you can be confident, but don't be cocky. Always have a plan B or even C in case it doesn't go your way. Check out LSN.

I remember being in your shoes 2 years ago when I first started applying. TLS is both exciting and neurotic - so take care. FYI I applied 3 times before I finally got into the school I want so if you have any questions just PM me. Good luck!


Thank you! I may definitely take you up on that, especially since I'm considering reapplying if I don't get in the range I want. Don't really want to "settle" for a law school if there's potential to just work another year and get into a better school.

And yeah, I'm still terrified that the LSAT won't go well, so avoiding cockiness will not be an issue.




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