MA, 156 3.2 ?

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architecturas
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MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby architecturas » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:32 pm

Hi,

Devastated I didn't do better on the Feb LSAT, for my practice tests ranged 158-160, but it is what it is. What are my chances at the T20-40? I really like Notre Dame and W&M, but those are going to be tough considering my stats. Any suggestions would be appreciated—of course, other than "retake" or "don't go to law school."

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rpupkin
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby rpupkin » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:35 pm

architecturas wrote:Devastated I didn't do better on the Feb LSAT, for my practice tests ranged 158-160, but it is what it is.

A 156 LSAT is consistent with your practice tests. It's about what you should have expected.

What are my chances at the T20-40? I really like Notre Dame and W&M, but those are going to be tough considering my stats. Any suggestions would be appreciated—of course, other than "retake" or "don't go to law school."

How about I combine the two? If you don't retake, then don't go to law school.

BigZuck
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby BigZuck » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:36 pm

http://www.mylsn.info for chances

Probably need to retake to make law school worthwhile and still might be tough with that GPA

architecturas
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby architecturas » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:57 pm

rpupkin wrote:
architecturas wrote:Devastated I didn't do better on the Feb LSAT, for my practice tests ranged 158-160, but it is what it is.

A 156 LSAT is consistent with your practice tests. It's about what you should have expected.

What are my chances at the T20-40? I really like Notre Dame and W&M, but those are going to be tough considering my stats. Any suggestions would be appreciated—of course, other than "retake" or "don't go to law school."

How about I combine the two? If you don't retake, then don't go to law school.


I understand your stream of logic, however, I cannot retake. I'm an opportunist: I have to use what I have and just get as far as I can with it.

Besides, W&M is my dream school. I'm a history major with colonial studies as my area of study, so W&M is a colonial historian's dream. However, I am interested in sound advice regarding admission possibilities at the 20-40 range, and I would like to keep this in that particular topic.

Thanks!

BigZuck
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby BigZuck » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:09 pm

20-40 is a meaningless distinction and W&M's colonial history program is meaningless when it comes to the law school

Don't go unless it's likely to get you the job you want at an appropriate cost

Nomo
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby Nomo » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:32 pm

architecturas wrote:Besides, W&M is my dream school. I'm a history major with colonial studies as my area of study, so W&M is a colonial historian's dream.


Maybe you should be pursuing a history Phd. It sounds like that's what you're more interested. And as bad as the academic job market is, you'd at least be coming out with no debt. Its not like law is going to be a safe and lucrative career, certainly not from the schools you are looking at.

bacillusanthracis
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby bacillusanthracis » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:00 am

Here's the deal: you're not getting into your dream law school. Your GPA isn't there and neither is your LSAT score.

BUT!

Do not listen to anyone that says you can't be a successful attorney because you don't go to a T14 or Whatever Prestigious School. The idea that you're doomed to fail in life as a lawyer because you don't have a great LSAT score and don't go to whatever a perceived great school might be is idiotic and worse, it's mean spirited.

Lest anyone think that a prestigious school = being a great attorney, think again. The idea is laughable. You learn theory in law school and coming out of it you'll know a lot of theory. But it's only part of what you'll need to do well. People skills, the intangibles of negotiation and horse-trading, the ability to think beyond, below, and above theory when you have a real case will make far more of a difference than writing in a complaint or response, "In Smith v. Jones 14 S.E.2d 734, 738 (Va. Ct. App. 1992) blahblablah..."

I come from a family of attorneys, some of who went to "good" schools and others who went to tier 4 schools. All of them passed the bar and all them are doing pretty damn well. None of them were at or even near the top of their class. All were fair to middling law students.

Do you want to do well in real life? That's what matters. You have to have to some kind of belief in yourself that if you can pass the bar, then you can do what you want to do. Because passing the bar ain't the finish line buddy, it's the beginning of the race.

If you want to go to law school then dammit, go. Damn the debt, damn every liar on the internet who says they're disappointed with their 172 LSAT score, and damn anyone telling you that you shouldn't go because you got a 158. They're wrong. Even if you got a 140 they're still wrong. The only caveat I'll put forth is that if you really are discouraged from going to law school because you can't get into what you and the others here perceive as the perfect school, then maybe you shouldn't go. You have to be tougher than that. You gotta have balls.

So be tough, even if you aren't the best LSAT scorer on the planet. As that song says at the end of the Jackass movies, "If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough."

Good luck.

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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:35 am

bacillusanthracis wrote:Do not listen to anyone that says you can't be a successful attorney because you don't go to a T14 or Whatever Prestigious School.

Who said this?

bacillusanthracis wrote:The idea that you're doomed to fail in life as a lawyer because you don't have a great LSAT score and don't go to whatever a perceived great school might be is idiotic and worse, it's mean spirited.

Who said this?

bacillusanthracis wrote:Lest anyone think that a prestigious school = being a great attorney, think again.

Who said this?

Look dude, he might be the next William Howard Taft and SCOTUSPOTUS all over us. But grim reality is that despite your family's successes, law school right now is expensive AF and the job market isn't exactly amazing and you can't just bootstraps your way into whatever job you want. You have to look at expected outcomes and you have to consider how much the venture will cost. If that isn't acceptable, then that person shouldn't go to law school.

bacillusanthracis
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby bacillusanthracis » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:13 am

BigZuck wrote:
bacillusanthracis wrote:Do not listen to anyone that says you can't be a successful attorney because you don't go to a T14 or Whatever Prestigious School.

Who said this?

bacillusanthracis wrote:The idea that you're doomed to fail in life as a lawyer because you don't have a great LSAT score and don't go to whatever a perceived great school might be is idiotic and worse, it's mean spirited.

Who said this?

bacillusanthracis wrote:Lest anyone think that a prestigious school = being a great attorney, think again.

Who said this?

Look dude, he might be the next William Howard Taft and SCOTUSPOTUS all over us. But grim reality is that despite your family's successes, law school right now is expensive AF and the job market isn't exactly amazing and you can't just bootstraps your way into whatever job you want. You have to look at expected outcomes and you have to consider how much the venture will cost. If that isn't acceptable, then that person shouldn't go to law school.


Okay.

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RCSOB657
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby RCSOB657 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:14 am

Your chances are only slightly more than mine, which is still hovering below 10%.

meggy1993
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby meggy1993 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:54 am

These people are just full of it! I had about the same stats as you (same LSAT, but a bit higher GPA). I also have a MA degree. I got into a top 30 law school (a top 22 law school to be exact). EVERYONE on here would have told me that it wasn't possible. Apply to where you want to apply and put forth a good application. The only people saying it's not possible are people over the internet.

BigZuck
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:38 am

meggy1993 wrote:These people are just full of it! I had about the same stats as you (same LSAT, but a bit higher GPA). I also have a MA degree. I got into a top 30 law school (a top 22 law school to be exact). EVERYONE on here would have told me that it wasn't possible. Apply to where you want to apply and put forth a good application. The only people saying it's not possible are people over the internet.


T22 is meaningless and even more silly than T30

But anyway, it's about making law school worthwhile, it's pretty doubtful the OP will get into a worthwhile school and at a worthwhile cost.

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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby meggy1993 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:44 am

BigZuck wrote:
meggy1993 wrote:These people are just full of it! I had about the same stats as you (same LSAT, but a bit higher GPA). I also have a MA degree. I got into a top 30 law school (a top 22 law school to be exact). EVERYONE on here would have told me that it wasn't possible. Apply to where you want to apply and put forth a good application. The only people saying it's not possible are people over the internet.


T22 is meaningless and even more silly than T30

But anyway, it's about making law school worthwhile, it's pretty doubtful the OP will get into a worthwhile school and at a worthwhile cost.


Yes, so pointless...... I wanted to graduate from a school that I'd be proud of and one that had great opportunities for me. You can argue about this all day, but graduating from a top school is meaningful to some (most) people. Saying that a law school that is ranked 22nd in the country is meaningless is just silly, as there is always SOME value to prestigiousness.

I'm happy for you if you got into a school that makes you happy, unlike you, I won't downgrade your success because I am pretty happy with my life. Try applying this kind of attitude to your life next time, believe me, you'll live a much happier life!

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby zombie mcavoy » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:44 am

meggy1993 wrote:These people are just full of it! I had about the same stats as you (same LSAT, but a bit higher GPA). I also have a MA degree. I got into a top 30 law school (a top 22 law school to be exact). EVERYONE on here would have told me that it wasn't possible. Apply to where you want to apply and put forth a good application. The only people saying it's not possible are people over the internet.

:(

BigZuck
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:59 am

meggy1993 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
meggy1993 wrote:These people are just full of it! I had about the same stats as you (same LSAT, but a bit higher GPA). I also have a MA degree. I got into a top 30 law school (a top 22 law school to be exact). EVERYONE on here would have told me that it wasn't possible. Apply to where you want to apply and put forth a good application. The only people saying it's not possible are people over the internet.


T22 is meaningless and even more silly than T30

But anyway, it's about making law school worthwhile, it's pretty doubtful the OP will get into a worthwhile school and at a worthwhile cost.


Yes, so pointless...... I wanted to graduate from a school that I'd be proud of and one that had great opportunities for me. You can argue about this all day, but graduating from a top school is meaningful to some (most) people. Saying that a law school that is ranked 22nd in the country is meaningless is just silly, as there is always SOME value to prestigiousness.

I'm happy for you if you got into a school that makes you happy, unlike you, I won't downgrade your success because I am pretty happy with my life. Try applying this kind of attitude to your life next time, believe me, you'll live a much happier life!

I'm pretty content.

It's not about cutting anyone down, it's about being honest with what these schools will buy you. I'm sorry but just getting into a random law school and being given the PRIVILEGE of paying 100k (or more) for a JD isn't some GREAT SUCCESS in my opinion.

Also the University of Iowa College of Law isn't prestigious just because it's ranked 22 by US News. It's a pretty arbitrary and meaningless ranking after you get out of the top 14 or so. Iowa ranked 22nd or 42nd or 82nd would still be what it is- a good school for Iowa and that's about it. No one will be impressed by it, and even if they were who cares?

meggy1993
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby meggy1993 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:07 pm

BigZuck wrote:
meggy1993 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
meggy1993 wrote:These people are just full of it! I had about the same stats as you (same LSAT, but a bit higher GPA). I also have a MA degree. I got into a top 30 law school (a top 22 law school to be exact). EVERYONE on here would have told me that it wasn't possible. Apply to where you want to apply and put forth a good application. The only people saying it's not possible are people over the internet.


T22 is meaningless and even more silly than T30

But anyway, it's about making law school worthwhile, it's pretty doubtful the OP will get into a worthwhile school and at a worthwhile cost.


Yes, so pointless...... I wanted to graduate from a school that I'd be proud of and one that had great opportunities for me. You can argue about this all day, but graduating from a top school is meaningful to some (most) people. Saying that a law school that is ranked 22nd in the country is meaningless is just silly, as there is always SOME value to prestigiousness.

I'm happy for you if you got into a school that makes you happy, unlike you, I won't downgrade your success because I am pretty happy with my life. Try applying this kind of attitude to your life next time, believe me, you'll live a much happier life!

I'm pretty content.

It's not about cutting anyone down, it's about being honest with what these schools will buy you. I'm sorry but just getting into a random law school and being given the PRIVILEGE of paying 100k (or more) for a JD isn't some GREAT SUCCESS in my opinion.

Also the University of Iowa College of Law isn't prestigious just because it's ranked 22 by US News. It's a pretty arbitrary and meaningless ranking after you get out of the top 14 or so. Iowa ranked 22nd or 42nd or 82nd would still be what it is- a good school for Iowa and that's about it. No one will be impressed by it, and even if they were who cares?


Don't treat your opinion as a fact--that's ignorance at its finest. Believe me, employers do care about the ranking of your school even out of the T14. People should be careful about listening to others on this board. Do your own research. Look at the employment stats, talk to current students, and look at all of the reports listing the actual data that you can get ahold of. If you do this, your answers become pretty clear. If you do this, you'll start to see that most people on here are actually the ones basing their 'facts' off of arbitrary and meaningless opinions.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby zombie mcavoy » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:18 pm

meggy1993 wrote:Don't treat your opinion as a fact--that's ignorance at its finest. Believe me, employers do care about the ranking of your school even out of the T14. People should be careful about listening to others on this board. Do your own research. Look at the employment stats, talk to current students, and look at all of the reports listing the actual data that you can get ahold of. If you do this, your answers become pretty clear. If you do this, you'll start to see that most people on here are actually the ones basing their 'facts' off of arbitrary and meaningless opinions.

:(

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r1tlv50
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby r1tlv50 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:32 pm

These boards focus on the amount of debt people take on relative to the expected value of their law degree. William and Mary, Notre Dame, Washington & Lee, and many other institutions are generally considered prestigious, but in the last several years their law school employment data hasn't justified paying full price on a cost v. benefit analysis. I do understand wanting to go to a good school for its own sake, but if that's really the main goal in all of this, other degrees are probably more affordable (PhD's are funded and MA's are shorter than LS). Lawyers tend to be very conscious of prestige and (perhaps because of that) employment data for the T14 are stronger.

Could going at night be an option? There aren't many night programs for the most prestigious schools, but if scholarships aren't an option it could be the best chance for minimizing debt. This option would only make sense if you really want to be an attorney - it's unlikely to have any short-term financial reward. Best of luck in any case

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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:34 pm

Just because you're a 22 year old boomer in millennial's clothing whose mind has been so warped by its own boomerdom that it cannot possibly consider the advice of others doesn't mean you have to drag other posters down with your own pre-conceived notions of what matters when it comes to legal hiring.

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rpupkin
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby rpupkin » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:47 pm

BigZuck wrote:Just because you're a 22 year old boomer in millennial's clothing whose mind has been so warped by its own boomerdom that it cannot possibly consider the advice of others doesn't mean you have to drag other posters down with your own pre-conceived notions of what matters when it comes to legal hiring.

Yet more ignorance at its finest.

BigZuck
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:54 pm

rpupkin wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Just because you're a 22 year old boomer in millennial's clothing whose mind has been so warped by its own boomerdom that it cannot possibly consider the advice of others doesn't mean you have to drag other posters down with your own pre-conceived notions of what matters when it comes to legal hiring.

Yet more ignorance at its finest.

:(

Eta: was I the only one who thought MA=Mexican American?
:oops:
Last edited by BigZuck on Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby zombie mcavoy » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:55 pm

rpupkin wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Just because you're a 22 year old boomer in millennial's clothing whose mind has been so warped by its own boomerdom that it cannot possibly consider the advice of others doesn't mean you have to drag other posters down with your own pre-conceived notions of what matters when it comes to legal hiring.

Yet more ignorance at its finest.

:lol:

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rpupkin
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby rpupkin » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:02 pm

BigZuck wrote:
Eta: was I the only one who thought MA=Mexican American?

No. I shared your fine ignorance on this point.

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romothesavior
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:03 pm

meggy1993 wrote:Don't treat your opinion as a fact--that's ignorance at its finest. Believe me, employers do care about the ranking of your school even out of the T14. People should be careful about listening to others on this board. Do your own research. Look at the employment stats, talk to current students, and look at all of the reports listing the actual data that you can get ahold of. If you do this, your answers become pretty clear. If you do this, you'll start to see that most people on here are actually the ones basing their 'facts' off of arbitrary and meaningless opinions.

People here are borderline obsessed with job data and cost figures. Those two factors drive the advice on TLS more than any others.

You've created one hell of a stupid straw man. I hope for your sake you aren't paying out the ass for your "T22" law degree.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: MA, 156 3.2 ?

Postby zombie mcavoy » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:05 pm

romothesavior wrote:
meggy1993 wrote:Don't treat your opinion as a fact--that's ignorance at its finest. Believe me, employers do care about the ranking of your school even out of the T14. People should be careful about listening to others on this board. Do your own research. Look at the employment stats, talk to current students, and look at all of the reports listing the actual data that you can get ahold of. If you do this, your answers become pretty clear. If you do this, you'll start to see that most people on here are actually the ones basing their 'facts' off of arbitrary and meaningless opinions.

People here are borderline obsessed with job data and cost figures. Those two factors drive the advice on TLS more than any others.

You've created one hell of a stupid straw man. I hope for your sake you aren't paying out the ass for your "T22" law degree.

iirc from her other thread her husband is paying iowa @ sticker




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