Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby JohannDeMann » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:57 pm

who cares where he could go to law school. dude would get a biglaw job coming out of anywhere T30. Why would you want to be a lawyer though.
Stop getting lost in the weeds when the forest/legal profession is on fire.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:00 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:dude would get a biglaw job coming out of anywhere T30



[Citation needed]

juzam_djinn
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby juzam_djinn » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:29 pm

OP, I think you seriously have to consider what you want out of law school. If you want a rigorous and (arguably) interesting academic experience, then you can definitely get it in LS, but it'll cost you an arm and a leg.

However, I'm guessing that your reason would be one of the following: 1) Biglaw and work as a lawyer, or 2) Some unicorn job. If it's the former, you should do some genuine research into what the legal profession is like for biglawyers or in house counsel. If the day to day still sounds interesting to you, then by all means go for it. But it sounds like you don't love consulting or banking work, and there are lots of parallels b/w the 3 professions, so make sure you're not just looking into law b/c you think the grass is greener.

If your goal is to get a unicorn job (e.g. white house counsel, premier appellate litigation, law professor, US attorney, SCOTUS clerk) then you also have to consider just how difficult it would be to get these jobs. It's a virtual req. that you'll need to be near the top of your class at a t-14 to be competitive for these types of positions. And even then, there will be various other req's, many of which will be out of your control. It's fine to be idealistic and shoot for the stars, but make sure you'd have a more realistic fall back option in the legal field that you think you would also enjoy doing.

As for your chances, it entirely depends on that LSAT. I myself had a very similar UG profile to you, and I know several others who were low 3's at Ivys. Those of us who were 170+ did fine. If you crack a 170, you're gonna get into a T10, no doubt about it. With admissions #'s and median stats declining, in addition to your super strong soft factors, you'll have no problem. I don't think your performance at CBS will affect your chances much; grad GPA's are usually somewhat inflated (outside of law/med). That being said, is a 3.9 good? I'm assuming 4.3 scale, which seems like it would be strong. But if it's a 5.0 scale like MIT, then....it would hurt.

I half agree half disagree w/ lawyerrr. I definitely think your softs are worth a lot, and that they would make you a virtual lock for the T10 given a 170 (heck, maybe even a 169). However, I think you have no shot at HYS. You're too far below the GPA floor. Every few years there will be anecdotes about people w/ sub 3.0's getting in, but they usually have extremely interesting stories or circumstances. Your softs are excellent but also not that unique.

Best of luck w/ your decision.

ub3r
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby ub3r » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:39 pm

nothingtosee wrote:Image

jesus christ your avatar

I'm going to clap for you and then I'm going to punch you

NonTradLawHopeful
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby NonTradLawHopeful » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:00 pm

Nomo wrote:I don't get the optimism here. The work experience might help a little. They could be worth a couple LSAT points. But this guy has a bad gpa and an lsat well below median for the schools we are talking about. And a 1L SA??? That's just crazy. Its not like this guy is the first person to leave McKinsey for law school. He isn't that special.

Also. A 3.9 at Columbia is downright terrible (they have a unique grading system - you need a 5.5 just to graduate). The recent bad grades at Columbia might be a cause for concern.



What??? That would mean a 3.9 is flat failing, except OP is graduating this year. That doesn't even make sense.

Assuming the 3.9 is based off of a normal 4.0 scale, that is a hell of a soft factor. If OP raised his LSAT into 170+, then T-14 with money is definitely doable.

Everyone saying the low GPA would hurt are not paying attention to the high premium schools have put on splitters this cycle.

mvp99
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby mvp99 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:04 pm

Nomo wrote:I don't get the optimism here. The work experience might help a little. They could be worth a couple LSAT points. But this guy has a bad gpa and an lsat well below median for the schools we are talking about. And a 1L SA??? That's just crazy. Its not like this guy is the first person to leave McKinsey for law school. He isn't that special.

Also. A 3.9 at Columbia is downright terrible (they have a unique grading system - you need a 5.5 just to graduate). The recent bad grades at Columbia might be a cause for concern.


https://cbspeeradvising.wordpress.com/grades/

3.9 in a 10 point scale? that could be a bunch of low passes

izha
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby izha » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:11 pm

NonTradLawHopeful wrote:
Nomo wrote:I don't get the optimism here. The work experience might help a little. They could be worth a couple LSAT points. But this guy has a bad gpa and an lsat well below median for the schools we are talking about. And a 1L SA??? That's just crazy. Its not like this guy is the first person to leave McKinsey for law school. He isn't that special.

Also. A 3.9 at Columbia is downright terrible (they have a unique grading system - you need a 5.5 just to graduate). The recent bad grades at Columbia might be a cause for concern.



What??? That would mean a 3.9 is flat failing, except OP is graduating this year. That doesn't even make sense.

Assuming the 3.9 is based off of a normal 4.0 scale, that is a hell of a soft factor. If OP raised his LSAT into 170+, then T-14 with money is definitely doable.

Everyone saying the low GPA would hurt are not paying attention to the high premium schools have put on splitters this cycle.

Columbia Grading System:
GPA
H+ 11
H 10
H- 9
HP+ 8
HP 7
HP- 6
P1+ 5
P1 4
P1- 3
LP 1
F 0
http://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/current-st ... -standards

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ballcaps
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby ballcaps » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:13 pm

Lawyerrr wrote:You should apply to all of the T-14 schools. My guess it that you'll get into most of them and almost definitely into Columbia. I wouldn't be surprised if you get into one of Harvard, Yale, or Stanford as well. Having worked for McKinsey and having an MBA from Columbia (regardless of GPA) puts you incredibly far ahead of the pack. I can almost guarantee you that, barring a steep recession, you'll also get a job at a top, top corporate law firm after your graduation as well (if that's what you want). I'm fairly certain mine would hire you.

I'm not a big blog fan, but I came across this site and saw people giving advice that was almost laughably wrong. I felt compelled to create a profile. I think a lot of it just has to do with people in college/1L's writing posts, and they don't have a ton of experience to know how things really work. For instance, here, I strongly, strongly disagree that having an MBA from Columbia is an "okay soft" (no disrespect to the person who said it). McKinsey is also one of the most reputable company in the world. Every admissions officer knows that.

I would recommend trying to tack on your J.D. right now at CLS (if McKinsey would allow it), even if you have to pay for it yourself. Just get all your education out of the way now.


what in god's name?

i can't navigate the increasingly subtle shades of troll on this site.

OP, 165/3.1 is not a viable combo, at least not for a top school. even if you score 170-something, that 3.1 will keep you out of almost all of the t14, as per previous posts.

NonTradLawHopeful
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby NonTradLawHopeful » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:23 pm

izha wrote:
NonTradLawHopeful wrote:
Nomo wrote:I don't get the optimism here. The work experience might help a little. They could be worth a couple LSAT points. But this guy has a bad gpa and an lsat well below median for the schools we are talking about. And a 1L SA??? That's just crazy. Its not like this guy is the first person to leave McKinsey for law school. He isn't that special.

Also. A 3.9 at Columbia is downright terrible (they have a unique grading system - you need a 5.5 just to graduate). The recent bad grades at Columbia might be a cause for concern.


What??? That would mean a 3.9 is flat failing, except OP is graduating this year. That doesn't even make sense.

Assuming the 3.9 is based off of a normal 4.0 scale, that is a hell of a soft factor. If OP raised his LSAT into 170+, then T-14 with money is definitely doable.

Everyone saying the low GPA would hurt are not paying attention to the high premium schools have put on splitters this cycle.

Columbia Grading System:
GPA
H+ 11
H 10
H- 9
HP+ 8
HP 7
HP- 6
P1+ 5
P1 4
P1- 3
LP 1
F 0
http://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/current-st ... -standards


In that case I'm going with flame, but my argument for splitters is still valid. Although failing out of business school would not help haha

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wojo98
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby wojo98 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:35 pm

mudiverse wrote:Edit: OP, some schools are taking the GMAT in place of the LSAT these days. With a 770, I suggest you look into it.

Only need the GMAT for the accelerated two-year JD at Northwestern. 770/3.1 would put him above GMAT 75th (740) and below GPA 25th (3.24) - which is competitive as a splitter (but a shoe-in w/ that WE). OP, as older candidate, would save the opportunity cost of that third year of school as well.

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nothingtosee
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby nothingtosee » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:47 pm

wojo98 wrote:
mudiverse wrote:Edit: OP, some schools are taking the GMAT in place of the LSAT these days. With a 770, I suggest you look into it.

Only need the GMAT for the accelerated two-year JD at Northwestern. 770/3.1 would put him above GMAT 75th (740) and below GPA 25th (3.24) - which is competitive as a splitter (but a shoe-in w/ that WE). OP, as older candidate, would save the opportunity cost of that third year of school as well.


You know, in this situation the AJD actually makes perfect sense.
Although it seems to me like OP just wants to be in school and collect degrees.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:56 pm

nothingtosee wrote:
wojo98 wrote:
mudiverse wrote:Edit: OP, some schools are taking the GMAT in place of the LSAT these days. With a 770, I suggest you look into it.

Only need the GMAT for the accelerated two-year JD at Northwestern. 770/3.1 would put him above GMAT 75th (740) and below GPA 25th (3.24) - which is competitive as a splitter (but a shoe-in w/ that WE). OP, as older candidate, would save the opportunity cost of that third year of school as well.


You know, in this situation the AJD actually makes perfect sense.
Although it seems to me like OP just wants to be in school and collect degrees.


Why does NW at sticker make perfect sense

qiuyidio
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby qiuyidio » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:33 am

Thanks!
Last edited by qiuyidio on Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:21 pm, edited 5 times in total.

mudiverse
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby mudiverse » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:45 am

qiuyidio wrote:I want to go into immigrant rights. Growing up, my family was taken advantage of in many, many ways. Growing up, someone firebombed our car. Our neighbor tapped our electricity meter so that we paid for their usage for nearly three years. My parents were helpless to do anything about it. It's something I've been passionate about for a while now. I've been working with Asian American rights organizations since high school and have been in contact with a number of lawyers in the field. For instance, I did a lot of the marketing work when my hometown tried to displace the city's Chinatown. In short, I want to do what they do.

e) Wow lots of terms that I am not familiar with. Is there a glossary somewhere? (soft? AJD?). Also, a tier list I can associate with T10, T14, etc.?


I support you dude. I'm similar to you in both background and career (though not as strong) and I identify with the above strongly. You worked your time and paid your dues - I don't think anyone can question your motivations anymore, but know that immigration law is not within the same tax bracket as your old job or the bulge bracket jobs you could get out of an M7 MBA.

e) 'soft' = Any qualification that isn't GPA/LSAT is a soft. Pretty much extra curriculars, work experience, research publishing, etc.

AJD = Accelerated JD. Two year programs rather than traditional three. Also consider the Early Decision scholarship to NU that gives you near full scholly.

T10/T14 refers to US News and World Report where rankings have remained unchanged in that range for many years.

rdawkins28
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby rdawkins28 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:55 am

Don't think you're a troll at all. People who do probably have lived in quite a small universe and probably don't even know what the majority of lawyers (i.e. non-TLS, non-T14, and non-biglaw) do.

However, be aware that as a lawyer, you might put in as many hours as you did at McKinsey. And many of the lawyers you're going to have to deal with are just plain a**holes. Also, unless you're working with rich immigrants, there might be very little income.

But if you're doing it to support your fellow Chinese or Asians, then I'm glad. There need to be more good minority lawyers. I've met my share of minority lawyers who prey on their own people more than helping them. And that always pisses me off.

So be careful, the grass isn't always greener.

Good luck.

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Strangely Appealing
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby Strangely Appealing » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:06 am

There need to be more good minority lawyers. I've met my share of minority lawyers who prey on their own people more than helping them.


Yeah, because white lawyers don't do that. What the fuck's the matter with you?

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nothingtosee
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby nothingtosee » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 am

Strangely Appealing wrote:
There need to be more good minority lawyers. I've met my share of minority lawyers who prey on their own people more than helping them.


Yeah, because white lawyers don't do that. What the fuck's the matter with you?

(poster is actually Richard Dawkins)

Lawyerrr
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby Lawyerrr » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:16 am

You seem to know exactly what you're doing. I would trust yourself over a bunch of anonymous people on a website, especially ones who write nasty things. Though some people on here are really helpful, a lot just like to argue. Before law school (about six years ago), I read this website a lot for advice. Then I went to law school, saw who was actually posting on here, and realized I'd never take advice from them in a million years. So take everything you read with a grain of salt.

Good luck, man.
Strangely Appealing wrote:
There need to be more good minority lawyers. I've met my share of minority lawyers who prey on their own people more than helping them.


Yeah, because white lawyers don't do that. What the fuck's the matter with you?

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Helioze
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby Helioze » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:19 am

.
Last edited by Helioze on Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Helioze
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby Helioze » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:22 am

Lawyerrr wrote:You seem to know exactly what you're doing. I would trust yourself over a bunch of anonymous people on a website, especially ones who write nasty things. Though some people on here are really helpful, a lot just like to argue. Before law school (about six years ago), I read this website a lot for advice. Then I went to law school, saw who was actually posting on here, and realized I'd never take advice from them in a million years. So take everything you read with a grain of salt.

Good luck, man.
Strangely Appealing wrote:
There need to be more good minority lawyers. I've met my share of minority lawyers who prey on their own people more than helping them.




^

this guy, giving advice to not take advice

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lacrossebrother
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby lacrossebrother » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:23 am

0. i'm not a lawyer.
1. this forum is a place to tell people to "retake your lsat" and reconsider going to law school. there are no substantive discussions of actual law practice here, and any sentiment to the effect of "I enjoy law" is regarded as incredulous.
2. your question about what law school tier you should target is weird. the higher the tier, the higher the chance that you'll be able to pick exactly the type of career you'd like...when you start. law schools are pretty shallow in terms of picking their matriculants...but firms will certainly care about your ivy background. that means you will probably outperform similarly situated (i.e. class rank) peers at whatever school you go to, but you won't do much better than similarly situated gpa/lsat applicants for getting in. what's super weird is your apathy towards money. it's really hard to give someone advice who says they don't care about making a lot of money. if you go to a top 30 school, you'll be able to pay off your student loans. it seems like you've been making good money for awhile, so you probably won't even need to take very much student loans on. that being said, improving your lsat mean you'll get more scholarship options from top-bottom and at that point you can pick where you feel comfortable taking on debt and the chance that you wont be able to pick precisely the type of law you imagine yourself practicing.

ultimately, just recognize that if you say you don't give a shit about money, and also don't say what kind of law you want to do, it's completely impossible to give you any advice....er maybe MBB bros could divine what kind of consulting you need to make a good decision.

rules of thumb:
higher scores = better schools or better scholarships
better schools = better options

(that whole thing was for question a).

your age matters to the extent that it precludes your ability to take risks and explore different avenues of law. your lack of interest in money i guess counteracts that. taking on less debt also would help that.

common wisdom is that grad gpa's don't help a ton for admissions.


last, at the end of the year, top-law-schools.com/forums runs very important superlative contests. please consider me for most helpful poster.

regards,
lacrossebrother

qiuyidio
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby qiuyidio » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:16 am

Thanks!
Last edited by qiuyidio on Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

qiuyidio
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby qiuyidio » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:21 am

Thanks!
Last edited by qiuyidio on Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dabigchina
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby dabigchina » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:43 am

I smell troll.

MBB doesn't hire from Dartmouth with a 3.1

qiuyidio
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Re: Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful

Postby qiuyidio » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:58 am

Thanks!
Last edited by qiuyidio on Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.




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