Post Ivy MBA Law School Hopeful Forum

[BigZuck]

You might want to stop dude, you're just digging a bigger hole

[Tiago Splitter]

Everyone saying the low GPA would hurt are not paying attention to the high premium schools have put on splitters this cycle.

How I wish this were so.

It is so. OP would need to retake for 170+, but if he did, he would be competitive for 7-14 even with the 3.1.

That's been true for years. The only fight is over whether he can get Harvard, and a 3.1 is just too low there. But with a higher LSAT he's very likely in at NYU and a few schools below it, just like he would have been two cycles ago.

That said I agree with Zuck that he should take a large scholarship to a local school if he's looking to do immigration work. But he should apply broadly and see what happens when the time comes.

[A. Nony Mouse]

You might want to stop dude, you're just digging a bigger hole

I don't think he's wrong. Immigrants do get exploited and there are a lot of crappy immigration lawyers happy to do so.

[BigZuck]

You might want to stop dude, you're just digging a bigger hole

I don't think he's wrong. Immigrants do get exploited and there are a lot of crappy immigration lawyers happy to do so.

I don't neccessarily think he's wrong either, but I do think he's incapable of wording things in a way that doesn't make him look like an old racist.

He hasn't acknowledged that corn-feed Americans exploit people, it's just Chinese and Asians and those dicey Russians/Eastern Europeans that we need to look out for.

[rdawkins28]

You might want to stop dude, you're just digging a bigger hole

I don't think he's wrong. Immigrants do get exploited and there are a lot of crappy immigration lawyers happy to do so.

I don't neccessarily think he's wrong either, but I do think he's incapable of wording things in a way that doesn't make him look like an old racist.

He hasn't acknowledged that corn-feed Americans exploit people, it's just Chinese and Asians and those dicey Russians/Eastern Europeans that we need to look out for.

I also haven't acknowledge a billion other shits that goes on this life.

[A. Nony Mouse]

You might want to stop dude, you're just digging a bigger hole

I don't think he's wrong. Immigrants do get exploited and there are a lot of crappy immigration lawyers happy to do so.

I don't neccessarily think he's wrong either, but I do think he's incapable of wording things in a way that doesn't make him look like an old racist.

He hasn't acknowledged that corn-feed Americans exploit people, it's just Chinese and Asians and those dicey Russians/Eastern Europeans that we need to look out for.

I get your point, but I think it's stretching a little.

[qiuyidio]

Since so many people were so helpful, I just thought I'd post a quick update after a long chat with one of the adcom at CLS. My law professor helped set up the appointment so it was a really frank meeting.

Basically a few major takeaways:

- Get a 172+ LSAT
- No chance at Harvard, Yale, Stanford regardless of LSAT
- Alumni status will help with CLS
- Recommendations from my CLS professors will help a lot at CLS, and everywhere else too
- My top performance in the 4 CLS classes I've taken will help
- Professional background will definitely make a difference for other top law schools because law schools are become more and more holistic with older candidates
- Apply broadly, but I have a good shot at the top 10

So in a sense, a lot of what has been said in this forum already. In the end, it all boils down to that last bullet point I guess!

[NonTradLawHopeful]

Since so many people were so helpful, I just thought I'd post a quick update after a long chat with one of the adcom at CLS. My law professor helped set up the appointment so it was a really frank meeting.

Basically a few major takeaways:

- Get a 172+ LSAT
- No chance at Harvard, Yale, Stanford regardless of LSAT
- Alumni status will help with CLS
- Recommendations from my CLS professors will help a lot at CLS, and everywhere else too
- My top performance in the 4 CLS classes I've taken will help
- Professional background will definitely make a difference for other top law schools because law schools are become more and more holistic with older candidates
- Apply broadly, but I have a good shot at the top 10

So in a sense, a lot of what has been said in this forum already. In the end, it all boils down to that last first bullet point I guess!

Focus on the 172+ before worrying about the rest.

[Clearly]

Also remember it's that person's job to inspire confidence, they'll never tell you you have no shot...

[joewoo198256]

You should apply to all of the T-14 schools. My guess it that you'll get into most of them and almost definitely into Columbia. I wouldn't be surprised if you get into one of Harvard, Yale, or Stanford as well. Having worked for McKinsey and having an MBA from Columbia (regardless of GPA) puts you incredibly far ahead of the pack. I can almost guarantee you that, barring a steep recession, you'll also get a job at a top, top corporate law firm after your graduation as well (if that's what you want). I'm fairly certain mine would hire you.

I'm not a big blog fan, but I came across this site and saw people giving advice that was almost laughably wrong. I felt compelled to create a profile. I think a lot of it just has to do with people in college/1L's writing posts, and they don't have a ton of experience to know how things really work. For instance, here, I strongly, strongly disagree that having an MBA from Columbia is an "okay soft" (no disrespect to the person who said it). McKinsey is also one of the most reputable company in the world. Every admissions officer knows that.

I would recommend trying to tack on your J.D. right now at CLS (if McKinsey would allow it), even if you have to pay for it yourself. Just get all your education out of the way now.

Just no. GPA and LSAT are still the most important 98%+ factors LS consider

I begger to differ. For a person with so many years of W/E and an distinguished business degree, he certainly should be different from a guy fresh out of college.

[UnicornHunter]

You should apply to all of the T-14 schools. My guess it that you'll get into most of them and almost definitely into Columbia. I wouldn't be surprised if you get into one of Harvard, Yale, or Stanford as well. Having worked for McKinsey and having an MBA from Columbia (regardless of GPA) puts you incredibly far ahead of the pack. I can almost guarantee you that, barring a steep recession, you'll also get a job at a top, top corporate law firm after your graduation as well (if that's what you want). I'm fairly certain mine would hire you.

I'm not a big blog fan, but I came across this site and saw people giving advice that was almost laughably wrong. I felt compelled to create a profile. I think a lot of it just has to do with people in college/1L's writing posts, and they don't have a ton of experience to know how things really work. For instance, here, I strongly, strongly disagree that having an MBA from Columbia is an "okay soft" (no disrespect to the person who said it). McKinsey is also one of the most reputable company in the world. Every admissions officer knows that.

I would recommend trying to tack on your J.D. right now at CLS (if McKinsey would allow it), even if you have to pay for it yourself. Just get all your education out of the way now.

Just no. GPA and LSAT are still the most important 98%+ factors LS consider

I begger to differ. For a person with so many years of W/E and an distinguished business degree, he certainly should be different from a guy fresh out of college.

You waited six years to post and this is number one? Well played.

[Clearly]

You should apply to all of the T-14 schools. My guess it that you'll get into most of them and almost definitely into Columbia. I wouldn't be surprised if you get into one of Harvard, Yale, or Stanford as well. Having worked for McKinsey and having an MBA from Columbia (regardless of GPA) puts you incredibly far ahead of the pack. I can almost guarantee you that, barring a steep recession, you'll also get a job at a top, top corporate law firm after your graduation as well (if that's what you want). I'm fairly certain mine would hire you.

I'm not a big blog fan, but I came across this site and saw people giving advice that was almost laughably wrong. I felt compelled to create a profile. I think a lot of it just has to do with people in college/1L's writing posts, and they don't have a ton of experience to know how things really work. For instance, here, I strongly, strongly disagree that having an MBA from Columbia is an "okay soft" (no disrespect to the person who said it). McKinsey is also one of the most reputable company in the world. Every admissions officer knows that.

I would recommend trying to tack on your J.D. right now at CLS (if McKinsey would allow it), even if you have to pay for it yourself. Just get all your education out of the way now.

Just no. GPA and LSAT are still the most important 98%+ factors LS consider

I begger to differ. For a person with so many years of W/E and an distinguished business degree, he certainly should be different from a guy fresh out of college.

You waited six years to post and this is number one? Well played.

[qiuyidio]

Last minute decision to register for June 9 test date! We'll see how it goes...

[Traynor Brah]

I have been out of the game for a while - I took the LSAT when it was still done on paper.

Well in that case, someone should probably break the news: the LSAT is still (and always has been) done on paper. Don't know where you got that idea from. A liar.

[tortsandtiaras]

I have been out of the game for a while - I took the LSAT when it was still done on paper.

Well in that case, someone should probably break the news: the LSAT is still (and always has been) done on paper. Don't know where you got that idea from. A liar.

Might have been talking about the GMAT by accident.

[qiuyidio]

I have been out of the game for a while - I took the LSAT when it was still done on paper.

Well in that case, someone should probably break the news: the LSAT is still (and always has been) done on paper. Don't know where you got that idea from. A liar.

Actually I was talking about the LSAT. At that point (a few months ago), I had not done any research about about the LSAT, and i guess somewhere in the last 9 years since I took it, I mistakenly heard that it had been computerized. Not exactly hard to believe - in fact, why HASN'T the LSAT been computerized yet??

Anyway. Man, this forum is depressing. You guys should check out GMATClub. One of the most supportive communities I've ever been a part of. On here every other post seems to be "liar!" or "stay at your job!" and what not.

[UnicornHunter]

I have been out of the game for a while - I took the LSAT when it was still done on paper.

Well in that case, someone should probably break the news: the LSAT is still (and always has been) done on paper. Don't know where you got that idea from. A liar.

Actually I was talking about the LSAT. At that point (a few months ago), I had not done any research about about the LSAT, and i guess somewhere in the last 9 years, I heard that it had been computerized. Not exactly hard to believe - in fact, why HASN'T the LSAT been computerized yet??

Anyway. Man, this forum is depressing. You guys should check out GMATClub. One of the most supportive communities I've ever been a part of. On here every other post seems to be "liar!" or "stay at your job!" and what not.

Maybe you should reflect on why this forum is like that.

[juzam_djinn]

gmatclub and many other gmat/b-school forums are cringeworthy in how naive some of the posters sound

lawyers are a cynical bunch, but it's far more entertaining to read tls or xo

[Smantz]

OP, it might be time you check out 7Sage if you haven't already. It is a little more supportive/less cynical and, in my opinion, their product seems a little more effective for those already high scorers (>90th percentile) trying to go higher (>98th percentile).

Be advised that the "fucking moron" factor is pretty high in the community over their, so prepare to ignore most discussions. But, you know, I'm cynical and whatnot and don't really like people.

[Traynor Brah]

OP, it might be time you check out 7Sage if you haven't already. It is a little more supportive/less cynical and, in my opinion, their product seems a little more effective for those already high scorers (>90th percentile) trying to go higher (>98th percentile).

Be advised that the "fucking moron" factor is pretty high in the community over their, so prepare to ignore most discussions. But, you know, I'm cynical and whatnot and don't really like people.

Exhibit A.

[Traynor Brah]

Anyway. Man, this forum is depressing. You guys should check out GMATClub. One of the most supportive communities I've ever been a part of. On here every other post seems to be "liar!" or "stay at your job!" and what not.

law school is a terrible idea for the vast majority of applicants and the majority of people who enroll every year. 46% of graduates are not employed as attorneys nine months after graduation every year. The best case scenario for the average person at top end schools involves three and a half years of opportunity cost, six figures in debt, a large salary at a big firm for a few years that puts a dent in said debt before burnout or forceout results in leaving the profession or making 60K at a small firm.

[qiuyidio]

Well, just got my scores back: 174. Mostly happy with it. Also finished my MBA earlier with the highest academic honors (top 5%). I think I'm pretty much in as good of a spot as I will ever be in...

[eb91]

Congratulations!! Just read through this thread and want to wish you the best of luck in your upcoming application cycle. You have a really compelling story, and I'm sure it'll make for a great personal statement. Congrats again!

[UnicornHunter]

Well, just got my scores back: 174. Mostly happy with it. Also finished my MBA earlier with the highest academic honors (top 5%). I think I'm pretty much in as good of a spot as I will ever be in...

This is definitely true if you decide to go to law school instead of putting that fancy new MBA to use. Enjoy The View From The Top, it's all downhill from here.

[pancakes3]

Well, as long as this is bumped,

1) Congrats on the 174.
2) Money is money. Debt is worse, but if you're going to burn through your savings just making it through law school, you won't have any left to hang your shingle or whatever it is you wanted to do post-grad. What I'm saying is - cop dat scholly
3) Now that you've got a 174, retaking in October isn't the worst idea. You can still ED/apply and potentially do more for scholly. 174 is at CLS's 75th. You'll have more bargaining power if you're above the 75th.
4) I know dozens of people with higher GPAs at better UG programs who didn't get MBB so... you're at the very least lucky to get your job with a 3.1 from Dartmouth.
5) Humility. You've got great credentials from a lay perspective and you probably do have the tools to do very well in law school but it is still on a curve, and you'll have very smart people around you. Law school is a professional school and you've got to indoctrinate yourself into the way the profession thinks.