Opinions Welcome

[jj2hawks]

Hi all! I am writing because I would love to hear everyone's opinions on what possible options i might have moving forward.
3.75 GPA
Taking LSAT in June. (Expecting ~165) Also not sure if I am being modest or the LSAT is as hard as some on this site make it out to be.
21 Year Old African American Male
Division 1 Football Player
Will be graduating my undergrad school a semester early.
Interested in healthcare law
Price is a huge factor, but would be willing to accrue an acceptable amount of debt at the right school.
NJ born and raised
Originally felt really strongly about Boston University (always wanted to live the city life but NYC has always seemed too hectic).
What would be the best way to go about deciding and applying? Would love the security of the Boston University early decision full scholarship if at all possible!

[Mack.Hambleton]

Don't ED BU

Also get your pt average to 170+

[Dipper]

If you can get 167+, you're golden. Do not ED anywhere. T20 will throw $$$ at you, and you can get a full ride easy.

[cc78]

If you can get 167165+, you're golden. Do not ED anywhere. T20 will throw $$$ at you, and you can get a full ride easy.

And the LSAT is definitely hard. It's not just hype.

Just to back it up:

[MattM]

I assume based off OP's thread he has not studied much for the LSAT.

I wouldn't "expect" a certain score until you have taken several practice tests and know what general range you are in.

Without even an estimate of the LSAT range you may fall into , it is virtually impossible to predict

[Clearly]

Have you taken a full timed prep test, or do you assume you're smarter than 91% of law students?

[romothesavior]

The LSAT isn't that hard. It is pretty learnable. That said, dont bank on anything. If you are in fact practice testing at 165 now, you could be looking at Harvard on down if you can live up to your potential in June.

Get your hands on the Powerscore Bibles and do as many practice tests as possible. Study your ass off. Every point could translate to tens of thousands of dollars in scholarship money, and you'll have a lot of options if you kill it.

[iguazu]

Study and take until you're high 160's and wait for T20 schools to fight over you. Agree with others...don't ED.

[jj2hawks]

Sorry for disappearing ! But thanks for the input. I definitely didn't do a good job of explaining my LSAT estimate but I practice tested my first time at a 162 going in cold with no studying done previously. Between now and June I expect that to increase nicely. After more research I definitely feel as if I should shoot higher, with my eyes being currently on a school like UPenn (wonderful city & and close to my home of NJ).

[js1663]

If your diagnostic was a 162 you most definitely should not accept anything less than a 170+. At this point you should be shooting for HYS where you'd get that Boston life you desire, or CCN down with a fullnride only. Anything else would be a waste of your incredble stats/circumstances.

[ballcaps]

3.75 GPA

African American Male

I practice tested my first time at a 162

you will do very, very well. study really hard.

[Pneumonia]

162 is 99th percentile of timed practice tests for a first time taker. You did better than 90% of people who take the thing after studying, some of those for a really long time.

Anything less than 174 on the real thing and you're just admitting that you don't want to put in the work.

Take the advice here, study till you're comfortable at the 175 level, then come to Harvard or go to CCN for free.

[Hand]

3.75 GPA

African American Male

I practice tested my first time at a 162

you will do very, very well. study really hard.

yes. (1) keep up that GPA (2) study hard (3) the world is your oyster

[eriedoctrine]

Score in the high 160s and hf at Harvard.

[Hikikomorist]

162 is 99th percentile of timed practice tests for a first time taker. You did better than 90% of people who take the thing after studying, some of those for a really long time.

Anything less than 174 on the real thing and you're just admitting that you don't want to put in the work.

Take the advice here, study till you're comfortable at the 175 level, then come to Harvard or go to CCN for free.

Source? That seems rather incredible.

[Big Red]

Take the LSAT seriously, and things are going to fall into place for you. BU is a good school, but it wouldn't hurt to dream a little bigger once you get that score. Maybe also try to find work if there's going to be an 8 month gap before you start law school?

But seriously, does Chicago just not exist to people?

[Pneumonia]

162 is 99th percentile of timed practice tests for a first time taker. You did better than 90% of people who take the thing after studying, some of those for a really long time.

Anything less than 174 on the real thing and you're just admitting that you don't want to put in the work.

Take the advice here, study till you're comfortable at the 175 level, then come to Harvard or go to CCN for free.

Source? That seems rather incredible.

No source, but I stand by it- I've taught several hundred students (I know, self selection), and the highest first time PT I ever saw was 159. That guy was to 175 literally three weeks later, after he was shown how to diagram games. 162 is incredible. I mean, most people miss at least 10-12 on LG alone their first time- that doesn't leave very many misses for the other 3 sections.

[Clearly]

162 is 99th percentile of timed practice tests for a first time taker. You did better than 90% of people who take the thing after studying, some of those for a really long time.

Anything less than 174 on the real thing and you're just admitting that you don't want to put in the work.

Take the advice here, study till you're comfortable at the 175 level, then come to Harvard or go to CCN for free.

Source? That seems rather incredible.

No source, but I stand by it- I've taught several hundred students (I know, self selection), and the highest first time PT I ever saw was 159. That guy was to 175 literally three weeks later, after he was shown how to diagram games. 162 is incredible. I mean, most people miss at least 10-12 on LG alone their first time- that doesn't leave very many misses for the other 3 sections.

Agreed. When I first came across this post the specificity made me wonder if you had a source for that, but as an instructor myself I'd estimate roughly the same, maybe a bit worse. It's gotta be pretty rare for a new first diagnostic to end up around there. Although I don't doubt that those that do start off so strong aren't to be found in an lsat prep course.

[TheProdigal]

Sorry for disappearing ! But thanks for the input. I definitely didn't do a good job of explaining my LSAT estimate but I practice tested my first time at a 162 going in cold with no studying done previously. Between now and June I expect that to increase nicely. After more research I definitely feel as if I should shoot higher, with my eyes being currently on a school like UPenn (wonderful city & and close to my home of NJ).

To somewhat counter the cheering section here: several years ago I pulled a 165 on a cold, proctored, PT. A big chunk of this was due to already being familiar with logic game-style puzzles. Several years later, four weeks of intensive self-study got me a 167 on the real thing. I'm waiting on February's scores and hoping to equal my highest PT at 170. The biggest challenge I've had studying is that I'm subconsciously going "don't worry about it, you know you already know this."

Don't let yourself cocky about a cold PT score and what it means for your future real scores.

[PeanutsNJam]

You're black with a 3.75, and are a D1 football player (pretty strong soft). Just get 167+ and go to Yale/Harvard/Stanford, or Columbia/Chicago/NYU for free.

Hell, if you get lucky, some of the admissions faculty will be a fan of your team. That's like insta-admit.

Just sayin', even if you don't get 165, and get like a 163, apply to HYS anyway. Might get in.

[iVi]

You're black with a 3.75, and are a D1 football player (pretty strong soft). Just get 167+ and go to Yale/Harvard/Stanford, or Columbia/Chicago/NYU for free.

Hell, if you get lucky, some of the admissions faculty will be a fan of your team. That's like insta-admit.

Just sayin', even if you don't get 165, and get like a 163, apply to HYS anyway. Might get in.

This. You're in a great spot.

Good luck!

[cc78]

You're black with a 3.75, and are a D1 football player (pretty strong soft). Just get 167+ and go to Yale/Harvard/Stanford, or Columbia/Chicago/NYU for free.

Hell, if you get lucky, some of the admissions faculty will be a fan of your team. That's like insta-admit.

Just sayin', even if you don't get 165, and get like a 163, apply to HYS anyway. Might get in.

Just to disaggregate a little:

163-164: Chance at Harvard.

165-166: In at Harvard, no full CCN ride, but you will get some cash.

167+: You rule the world.

Y/S: Who the hell knows, but S has been friendly to AAs with usual Harvard numbers this cycle.

[emkay625]

162 is 99th percentile of timed practice tests for a first time taker. You did better than 90% of people who take the thing after studying, some of those for a really long time.

Anything less than 174 on the real thing and you're just admitting that you don't want to put in the work.

Take the advice here, study till you're comfortable at the 175 level, then come to Harvard or go to CCN for free.

Source? That seems rather incredible.

No source, but I stand by it- I've taught several hundred students (I know, self selection), and the highest first time PT I ever saw was 159. That guy was to 175 literally three weeks later, after he was shown how to diagram games. 162 is incredible. I mean, most people miss at least 10-12 on LG alone their first time- that doesn't leave very many misses for the other 3 sections.

This has to be BS. My diagnostic was a 165.

I taught only one class (13 students) and had 3 with diagnostics above 162.

[elterrible78]

162 is 99th percentile of timed practice tests for a first time taker. You did better than 90% of people who take the thing after studying, some of those for a really long time.

Anything less than 174 on the real thing and you're just admitting that you don't want to put in the work.

Take the advice here, study till you're comfortable at the 175 level, then come to Harvard or go to CCN for free.

Source? That seems rather incredible.

No source, but I stand by it- I've taught several hundred students (I know, self selection), and the highest first time PT I ever saw was 159. That guy was to 175 literally three weeks later, after he was shown how to diagram games. 162 is incredible. I mean, most people miss at least 10-12 on LG alone their first time- that doesn't leave very many misses for the other 3 sections.

This has to be BS. My diagnostic was a 165.

I taught only one class (13 students) and had 3 with diagnostics above 162.

I've taught a total of about 200 people, highest cold diagnostic I saw among my students was a 161 (though my own was a 166). Are you sure the three 162+ diagnostics you had were cold, no-prep scores?

[Pneumonia]

I've taught a total of about 200 people, highest cold diagnostic I saw among my students was a 161 (though my own was a 166). Are you sure the three 162+ diagnostics you had were cold, no-prep scores?

Yeah 3/13 at 162+ exceeds the expected distribution among actual test takers.

Whatever the real 99th diagnostic is (I'm happy to keep discussing it), 162 is really really high and OP should be going for a 180.