I messed up...

Not sure where your numbers will get you? Dying to know where you stand? Come have your palms read by your fellow posters!
mostlylost
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:02 am

I messed up...

Postby mostlylost » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:09 am

I know there are a million posts like this, but honestly, its been a few days since I've slept normally -- I feel like my life is over (so dramatic, I know).

While I was in community college, I didn't do so well -- I got a 2.93 overall, which includes an F in a class that I dropped out of, but thats neither here nor there. Whats done is done.

Now, at my university, I'm about a 3.12 hoping to bump it to about a 3.2 in my last semester, and I was told I could write an addendum to ask law schools to ignore my community college grades, and focus mostly on university grades (I actually have a legit medical excuse to explain my shitty grades in CC).

I know my chances aren't very great to get into a great school, but, I'm hoping with with the addendum and a high lstat score (~175), I could get into UCLA/USC. I'm hoping to stay within California, unfortunately, I feel like my options are very much limited. I wont be able to travel far away from the LA area, and I feel like with all these limitations, my hopes of law school are crushed.

In short, how f*cked am I?

User avatar
esypsylmnsqsy
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:02 pm

Re: I messed up...

Postby esypsylmnsqsy » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:59 am

From one insomniac to another, let me first say you need to try to take a step back and chill. I finished my first two years of UG with barely over a 2.1, including multiple Fs. I turned the rest of my grades around and brought my cumulative GPA up to over a 3.3 by graduation. I put a solid amount of work into the LSAT, and with a 173 I was able to get into a number of T14 schools.

Law schools and LSAC are never going to ignore any of your UG grades, but an addendum explaining a legitimate medical reason for poor grades might help add some narrative.

However, the chances of you getting into a "great school" will be almost entirely determined by how much you are able to bump up your uGPA and what you score on the LSAT. If you are able to improve your GPA to a 3.2 before you graduate that will help your cause, but you are still going to be below the 25th percentile of most any "great school". So the only thing you can do now is blow the LSAT out of the water. To shoot to be competitive at schools that will dip to that GPA you should be shooting to meet or exceed those schools' 75th percentile LSAT. So yes, a 175 would give you some decent options in a hypothetical future.

It seems that you haven't yet taken the LSAT, and presuming you will snag a 99th percentile score is a big assumption to make. Also CA law schools are notoriously GPA conscious. What are your career goals? I'm really not familiar with CA schools or their job placement, but the consensus on TLS I have often seen is that UCLA/USC are not worth attending unless you receive a sizable scholarship. As a splitter you might get into a "great school", but end up paying full freight. Without knowing your personal circumstances or motives for attending law school it is difficult to say what course of action might be right for you.

The long and short of it is that you are not SOL. Work hard and finish with the best grades you can, then work harder and get the best LSAT you can. Once you have your final GPA and LSAT you will be able to assess your options, but right now things are too speculative. So just keep chugging along and get some sleep.

mostlylost
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:02 am

Re: I messed up...

Postby mostlylost » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:08 am

Thanks for the quick reply, unfortunately irrational fear has taken over me. As stated, my overall gpa is a 2.93 from community college, and a 3.2 from my university that I transfered to. I was advised to write an addendum for my poor grades at my community it college. I know it's speculative, but I know I will be doing well on the lsats as I have no other choice. I'm assuming the lsac won't be much of a difference from the overall, unless the addendum works some magic and they look solely at my university grades.

I don't know, I just can't sleep this one off

User avatar
baal hadad
Posts: 3168
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: I messed up...

Postby baal hadad » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:53 am

No ones gonna care about your GPA addendum

I mean, not only do people not care about addendums general but you went up from a 2.9 to a 3.1

That's not really improving by leaps and bounds now is it

Better hope you can pull that 175 duder

User avatar
downbeat14
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:00 am

Re: I messed up...

Postby downbeat14 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:41 am

.
Last edited by downbeat14 on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mostlylost
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:02 am

Re: I messed up...

Postby mostlylost » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:55 am

I don't doubt my abilities with respects to the lsats, but last night I was scared out of nowhere because I feared k wouldn't get into any lawschool. I don't think I'd get into the top tier schools, so now I'm looking towards layola la and southwestern, and hoping I can get in.

Thanks for the brutal honesty though.

User avatar
pamphleteer
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:03 pm

Re: I messed up...

Postby pamphleteer » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:55 am

As a CA native with a significantly worse GPA than you who's been admitted to multiple T20 schools with significant scholarships this cycle, you're not fucked as long as you can kill the LSAT. But A) that's easier said than done and B) even then, you'll probably have to leave SoCal if you're serious about law school as top California schools are among the least splitter friendly in the country. That said, you could probably swing UCLA with a 168+ but it'll surely be at sticker if it happens. I wouldn't attend at that price.

User avatar
Clearly
Posts: 4165
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: I messed up...

Postby Clearly » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:02 am

I took a worse GPA to T14. It's def hard, but don't listen to the people who say its not possible. Just gotta crush the LSAT now. I was a little put off by the strength of some answers in here, It's one thing to explain the realistic challenges and odds, but no need to completely deflate the kid.

User avatar
pamphleteer
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:03 pm

Re: I messed up...

Postby pamphleteer » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:14 am

Clearly wrote:I took a worse GPA to T14. It's def hard, but don't listen to the people who say its not possible. Just gotta crush the LSAT now. I was a little put off by the strength of some answers in here, It's one thing to explain the realistic challenges and odds, but no need to completely deflate the kid.


Yeah it seems like admissions standards even at top schools have cratered to the point where experiences from even a few cycles ago might not be relevant anymore. At this point, with a few exceptions, if you're above a school's LSAT median you'll probably get in with $ even if you have a horrendous GPA.

mostlylost
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:02 am

Re: I messed up...

Postby mostlylost » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:16 am

Clearly wrote:I took a worse GPA to T14. It's def hard, but don't listen to the people who say its not possible. Just gotta crush the LSAT now. I was a little put off by the strength of some answers in here, It's one thing to explain the realistic challenges and odds, but no need to completely deflate the kid.


Gives me hope. Honestly, I'm going crush the mother loving cap out of the lsats, but so long as I know southwestern or layola la are back up options, I'm game.

secadc11
Posts: 601
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: I messed up...

Postby secadc11 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:21 am

You would benefit from getting some work experience.

I had an UGPA that was higher than a 3.2, but not by much. With a 170+ score and solid work experience, my cycle is off to a solid start including a T14 acceptance. You can definitely make it work but I would strongly consider getting at least a few years of work experience under your belt.
Last edited by secadc11 on Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

mostlylost
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:02 am

Re: I messed up...

Postby mostlylost » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:22 am

secadc11 wrote:You would benefit from getting some work experience.

I had an UGPA that was higher than a 3.2, but not by much. With a 170+ score and solid work experience, my cycle is off to a strong start including a T14 acceptance. You can definitely make it work but I would strongly consider getting at least a few years of work experience under your belt.


I've been working since high school. I have about 7 years under my belt.

secadc11
Posts: 601
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: I messed up...

Postby secadc11 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:24 am

...But what kind of work? The typical high school job category is not the sort of work experience that will impress law schools

I'm talking full time work post undergrad with a reputable organization/company.

mostlylost
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:02 am

Re: I messed up...

Postby mostlylost » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:27 am

secadc11 wrote:...But what kind of work? The typical high school job category is not the sort of work experience that will impress law schools

I'm talking full time work post undergrad with a reputable organization/company.


I was in macys in high school and after, a caretaker with the city, plus have my own tiny business that I run which is authenticated by the city.

secadc11
Posts: 601
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: I messed up...

Postby secadc11 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:30 am

mostlylost wrote:
secadc11 wrote:...But what kind of work? The typical high school job category is not the sort of work experience that will impress law schools

I'm talking full time work post undergrad with a reputable organization/company.


I was in macys in high school and after, a caretaker with the city, plus have my own tiny business that I run which is authenticated by the city.


That last part sounds good. Play that up.

Another reason I recommended several years of work experience post undergrad is because it serves to help separate you from your UGPA.

Best of luck to you, whatever you decide!

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: I messed up...

Postby romothesavior » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:30 am

baal hadad wrote:No ones gonna care about your GPA addendum

I mean, not only do people not care about addendums general but you went up from a 2.9 to a 3.1

That's not really improving by leaps and bounds now is it

Better hope you can pull that 175 duder

This.

Focus all your energy on the LSAT.

MattM
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:05 am

Re: I messed up...

Postby MattM » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:32 am

My take on the situation

OP crossed an important barrier by being above the 3.0 mark. It would be very hard to get into LS with a -3.0 GPA even by crushing the LSAT (175+), ......Schools fortunately only care about the cumulative GPA so they will be evaluating you off of the 3.12 and not the 2.93, I say write an addendum if you think you have a reasonable case. Even though most people here will tell you it won't work, I'd say it is at least worth the effort to try to write in a clear, to the point manner why your medical condition brought down your GPA

With law school applications and test takers declining rapidly year by year, I don't see any reason why OP cannot get into a great law school,........it probably wouldn't be in CA as the schools there are the least splitter friendly by far ( see : Stanford, UC Berkeley )

With a 175+ LSAT ( if OP got it) .....whose to say OP cannot perform well or at least mid level in LS? Scoring a 175 means you would outscore 99.5% of your competition. There is no way you can fluke yourself or luck yourself into a 175. Several posters on here with 3.7+ GPA's struggle to get a 170 on actual test day. Lots of people underperform in UG ( partying, lack of priorities, work, medical conditions etc0 but get serious when it comes to LSAT prep and law school admissions.

As another option, why not get some Work Experience and apply Early Decision to northwestern for their 150K scholarship. it beats paying sticker elsewhere

MattM
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:05 am

Re: I messed up...

Postby MattM » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:40 am

Or as another option.....can you take extra coursework ( adding minor, another major) to increase the GPA?

Once you cross the graduation stage you can't fix your GPA ( Law schools put very little if any weight on a second degree after the first or on grad school GPA)

If at all possible I would try to stay in school and take some A classes to at least get a 3.3 before graduation.....I'm not sure how long that would take to get to that point but increasing a 3.0 GPA is easier/takes less time than increasing a 3.5

User avatar
downbeat14
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:00 am

Re: I messed up...

Postby downbeat14 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:45 am

.
Last edited by downbeat14 on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
downbeat14
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:00 am

Re: I messed up...

Postby downbeat14 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:54 am

.
Last edited by downbeat14 on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

mostlylost
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:02 am

Re: I messed up...

Postby mostlylost » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:56 am

MattM wrote:Or as another option.....can you take extra coursework ( adding minor, another major) to increase the GPA?

Once you cross the graduation stage you can't fix your GPA ( Law schools put very little if any weight on a second degree after the first or on grad school GPA)

If at all possible I would try to stay in school and take some A classes to at least get a 3.3 before graduation.....I'm not sure how long that would take to get to that point but increasing a 3.0 GPA is easier/takes less time than increasing a 3.5


Unfortunately I will not be able to. I'm graduating this semester!

That said, I'm not aiming ridiculously high for the law schools I will be applying to. I plan on taking my high 170, and take it into south western/layola la with the hopes of getting scholarships.

Thats the plan and it seems far more realistic.

mostlylost
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:02 am

Re: I messed up...

Postby mostlylost » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:59 am

downbeat14 wrote:
MattM wrote:I say write an addendum if you think you have a reasonable case. Even though most people here will tell you it won't work...


Adcomms care about one thing: What GPA will I have to report to the ABA. It very likely will not work or help marginally at best.

MattM wrote:With law school applications and test takers declining rapidly year by year, I don't see any reason why OP cannot get into a great law school.......


I see lots of reasons: low GPA, no LSAT score (yet) to overtake it. These are major hurdles. If you had to bet $100 on OP getting into a great law school just based on the GPA, how would you bet? I'd take 2-1 odds against them any day (and I'm really fucking conservative with money and betting) just based on what typically plays out. Sure, they could be an exception to the rule like the others on here, but it's highly unlikely. Also, I'm thinking T13 when I define great here.

MattM wrote:whose to say OP cannot perform well or at least mid level in LS? Scoring a 175 means you would outscore 99.5% of your competition. There is no way you can fluke yourself or luck yourself into a 175.


Do you realize how rare it is for someone in OP's (or anyone's) position to get this score. Yes, if (and a huge if) OP can get 175+ it probably means they are smart enough to get decent grades at a decent school. But again, this is baseless speculation and majorly presumptuous at this stage.

MattM wrote:As another option, why not get some Work Experience and apply Early Decision to northwestern for their 150K scholarship. it beats paying sticker elsewhere


ED NW would be a great outcome. If OP is dead set on law school (unfortunately), then this is certainly the best possible outcome.


I understand why you think I wont be getting into the top tier schools, and you're faith on someone over the internet with a shitty gpa is understandable too, but, I am no longer looking into top tier schools. As stated earlier, I'm looking into layola/south western and, if the lsat score is something I pull off, perhaps irivine.

User avatar
Clearly
Posts: 4165
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: I messed up...

Postby Clearly » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:00 pm

downbeat14 wrote:
Clearly wrote:I took a worse GPA to T14. It's def hard, but don't listen to the people who say its not possible... no need to completely deflate the kid.


I never said anything about it being impossible! However, you have to admit that your case is quite exceptional. Also, that T14 that you got into, how much did it cost for you to attend? Unless you got lucky or have URM status, it is almost certainly a small house-payment's-worth of debt. I wouldn't advise OP to do that for ANY law school, including HYS. Not trying to deflate, but the vast majority of people in OP's situation would be committing financial suicide by getting into the legal field.

pamphleteer wrote:...with a significantly worse GPA than you who's been admitted to multiple T20 schools with significant scholarships this cycle...


That's a pretty incredible outcome pamphleteer given your GPA! I'm guessing you must have scored near perfect on the LSAT. I would like to know the school and the definition of "significant" though. Is your total COA going to be under 6-figures at these schools? If so, congrats on a great outcome. But I still think you are a majorly exceptional case as well.

mostlylost wrote:I don't doubt my abilities with respects to the lsats... now I'm looking towards layola la and southwestern, and hoping I can get in. Thanks for the brutal honesty though.


OP, I don't think going to LS makes sense unless (1) you go to a top-13 school AND you emerge with very little debt, OR (2) you go to a solid regional school top 25 program (definitely not the other schools you mentioned) AND emerge with absolutely $0 debt. These are the only financially rational options IMO (unless you have reasons for doing law that have to do with public service and can benefit from a very good school's LRAP program; the best LRAP is still no LRAP, however). Unfortunately your GPA makes the first option impossible and the the second option highly unlikely.

Also, do not even consider loyola or southwestern under any circumstances. Here is why:
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/loyola-la/2013/
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... tern/2013/

According to the LST employment stats above, you'd have either a 50% or 38% (good god) chance respectively of even obtaining a job as an attorney 9 months after graduation. Also, these jobs are not even necessarily good ones. Loyola's median private sector salary is under $70K, Southwestern (shockingly... I wonder why) doesn't even report their salary info, but you have less than 5% shot at working in a law firm with over 100 attorneys, so you can pretty much expect not to make much money even if you are one of the very few that even get a job at all. Not getting into any law school would be better than going to these places.

The odds of landing a job even out of a middling B-school are much better, and very likely cheaper, especially if you can go in-state.

You also say you don't doubt your abilities as to the LSATs. What are you basing this on? Not saying you are wrong, but just curious why you think you are going to outperform 99.5% of test-takers. It's a pretty big assumption for us to make without some serious evidence such as: perfect SAT scores, officially tested very high-IQ, etc. (even though those are certainly not sufficient by any means for obtaining a 175+ LSAT!!!).

Bro you gotta tone it down a bit. You're very debt conservative and that's cool, but to say others shouldn't take hys at sticker, or t14 at anything besides a full ride is overly conservative, and you're using your values to deflate someone else's career goals. I agree about going to the shitty other schools listed, you don't know this kid, his current job prospects, debt tolerance, family finance situation etc, t14 for free or don't go is just too much man.

ETA: just pointing out the risk of this attitude...you've succeeded in convincing someone who's gpa still qualifies from penn down, and made them think they should go to Loyola...

User avatar
MagicMike80
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: I messed up...

Postby MagicMike80 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:03 pm

To OP: found myself in a similar situation, with underwhelming GPA, and wanting to stay in CA long-term. Did pretty well (94th %) on the LSAT, and was definitely in the range of UCLA/USC, but didn't get into either. Got a sizeable scholly from Loyola, but ultimately went T20 instead because of job prospects. It meant leaving the state and for a while envisioning living the rest of my life in a place with winter (but look at my profile - there was a happy ending!)

Bottom line is if you do even half as well as you think you will on the LSATs, the intolerable risk of LMU/SW will not be worth staying in SoCal.

User avatar
pamphleteer
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:03 pm

Re: I messed up...

Postby pamphleteer » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:06 pm

downbeat14 wrote:
Clearly wrote:
pamphleteer wrote:...with a significantly worse GPA than you who's been admitted to multiple T20 schools with significant scholarships this cycle...


That's a pretty incredible outcome pamphleteer given your GPA! I'm guessing you must have scored near perfect on the LSAT. I would like to know the school and the definition of "significant" though. Is your total COA going to be under 6-figures at these schools? If so, congrats on a great outcome. But I still think you are a majorly exceptional case as well.


So far I've been offered a full ride at UMN and $120k at WUSTL with a 172 LSAT which I think is entirely doable if you put enough time into studying. Again, my situation isn't amazing thanks to my terrible GPA; I still don't have a T14 acceptance and I'm certain I'll be shut out of HYSCCNMVPB (only even bothered applying to UVA among those) but OP has a shot at some decent options if s/he can crack 170.




Return to “What are my chances?”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests