I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

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k1a2t2i7e
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I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby k1a2t2i7e » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:10 pm

Okay, I have read the stickies. I normally would not post on a message board but I have not many cases similar to my own.

Undergrad GPA: 2.962 (graduated in 2007)
Graduate GPA: 3.667 (incomplete masters from 2008)
URM: No
LSAT: 178

For starters, I am 29 years old. I have spent the previous 6 years in the "real" world. I have an undergraduate degree in Finance. I have worked in a couple of venture capital "pressure cookers" and have been fortunate enough to land a decent job. I am the Chief Financial Officer at a small(but growing) business in the Oil&Gas industry. I was brought on board to "facilitate growth" and in the two years since my arrival our sales have increase about 100% year over year. I do a whole lot for the company, but I am ready to expand my horizon. In 5 years the company I am working for may or may not still be around. We do over 3Million a year in business, but you never know what the future holds.

My letters of recommendation: one will be the sitting Chief Financial Officer for a Billion dollar company. I had the opportunity to work with the man, and I suppose something impressed him. Although I no longer work for him, I have kept in touch over the years. His former positions include high level executive management at Rubbermaid, among others. He is in his late 60's. I have an open invitation to stay with him at his home. He has pledged to write me a recommendation. For the second letter I am going back to academia and will utilize my former advisor. He is a PHD with quite a few publications. He is not famous, but he is no slouch. I keep in touch with him, I believe he would be able to write me a decent letter.

Should I even use an old academic contact for my letter?

I hope to write a compelling and edgy personal statement. I am under no false illusions. I need to write the best PS the admission officers read for the class enrolling.


My question is how bad will my UGPA hurt me? I have been out of school for a long time. I will be in the <2% population by Age at any school I attend. I have created board meetings for the largest company in its industry. (I won't name, its obscure, but it is still a billion dollar company). I have basically aced the LSAT. I am going to have over 30K of my own money saved up by the time I pull the plug on my current job. I also do not come from a family with wealth. My father spent his career as a police officer, my mother a secretary. She is deceased. I literally grew up in a manufactured home(trailer house). I hope to parlay some of my socioeconomic status into my PS.

I am also a member of MENSA.

I hope I have given you enough information to make some kind of determination. Please do not judge my writing skills per this post, I have just worked a classy 12 hour Monday.

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cron1834
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby cron1834 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:51 pm

k1a2t2i7e wrote:Okay, I have read the stickies. I normally would not post on a message board but I have not many cases similar to my own.

Undergrad GPA: 2.962 (graduated in 2007)
Graduate GPA: 3.667 (incomplete masters from 2008)
URM: No
LSAT: 178

For starters, I am 29 years old. I have spent the previous 6 years in the "real" world. I have an undergraduate degree in Finance. I have worked in a couple of venture capital "pressure cookers" and have been fortunate enough to land a decent job. I am the Chief Financial Officer at a small(but growing) business in the Oil&Gas industry. I was brought on board to "facilitate growth" and in the two years since my arrival our sales have increase about 100% year over year. I do a whole lot for the company, but I am ready to expand my horizon. In 5 years the company I am working for may or may not still be around. We do over 3Million a year in business, but you never know what the future holds.

My letters of recommendation: one will be the sitting Chief Financial Officer for a Billion dollar company. I had the opportunity to work with the man, and I suppose something impressed him. Although I no longer work for him, I have kept in touch over the years. His former positions include high level executive management at Rubbermaid, among others. He is in his late 60's. I have an open invitation to stay with him at his home. He has pledged to write me a recommendation. For the second letter I am going back to academia and will utilize my former advisor. He is a PHD with quite a few publications. He is not famous, but he is no slouch. I keep in touch with him, I believe he would be able to write me a decent letter.

Should I even use an old academic contact for my letter?

I hope to write a compelling and edgy personal statement. I am under no false illusions. I need to write the best PS the admission officers read for the class enrolling.


My question is how bad will my UGPA hurt me? I have been out of school for a long time. I will be in the <2% population by Age at any school I attend. I have created board meetings for the largest company in its industry. (I won't name, its obscure, but it is still a billion dollar company). I have basically aced the LSAT. I am going to have over 30K of my own money saved up by the time I pull the plug on my current job. I also do not come from a family with wealth. My father spent his career as a police officer, my mother a secretary. She is deceased. I literally grew up in a manufactured home(trailer house). I hope to parlay some of my socioeconomic status into my PS.

I am also a member of MENSA.

I hope I have given you enough information to make some kind of determination. Please do not judge my writing skills per this post, I have just worked a classy 12 hour Monday.


LOLOL @ Mensa. :roll:

LOLOL @ being invited to stay with some old creep.

You are the quintessential case of an extreme splitter; MyLSN data points for you are few and far between. I hope someone here has some good anecdotal evidence to provide you with.

k1a2t2i7e
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby k1a2t2i7e » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:06 pm

cron1834 wrote:LOLOL @ Mensa. :roll:

LOLOL @ being invited to stay with some old creep.

You are the quintessential case of an extreme splitter; MyLSN data points for you are few and far between. I hope someone here has some good anecdotal evidence to provide you with.


I personally think MENSA is a joke, but it does look good on a resume. Fortunately, the man is married... I am male, he seems mostly interested in my company on a golf course. Should that change, I think the TLS message boards will be the last place I will be posting questions.

TigerDude
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby TigerDude » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:28 pm

LSAT qualifying score for Mensa is 168. Your 178 is much more impressive.

Kimikho
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby Kimikho » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:34 pm

PAGING:

Clearly (176/3.0ish?)
ScottRiqui (170/2.6)
t14-splitter?
mindarmed (177/2.9X)

You aren't unusual at all, dude. Northwestern will throw you $$$, or ED UVA. I'm thinking those users up there off the top of your head--that's how relatively "common" this is. YES you need an academic LOR. You are going to an academic degree. Putting distance between that UGPA and now is even better, but note that the last one on that list got UVA, Gtown, and Cornell as a KJD.

Your master's degree means nothing, though, sorry. Your age doesn't hurt anything.

ETA: Scanned through the first three pages for chance me threads:
3.2/172: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=223091
2.8/179: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=223197
2.83/175 2.5 years WE: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=222241

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rpupkin
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby rpupkin » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:51 pm

k1a2t2i7e wrote:For starters, I am 29 years old. I have spent the previous 6 years in the "real" world. I have an undergraduate degree in Finance. I have worked in a couple of venture capital "pressure cookers" and have been fortunate enough to land a decent job. I am the Chief Financial Officer at a small(but growing) business in the Oil&Gas industry. I was brought on board to "facilitate growth" and in the two years since my arrival our sales have increase about 100% year over year.

I have no idea who you are or where you came from, but I dig your use of scare quotes. I am confident you will prove a valuable addition to the TLS community.

Oh, in all seriousness, 29 is not old for law school at all. I understand why you're focusing on your age but it won't be an issue. If you end up attending law school, you'll looks back and wonder why you were ever concerned about your age.

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Ron Mexico
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby Ron Mexico » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:56 pm

dude wtf don't leave your job to go law school. how in the hell am i the first one to say this.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby Mal Reynolds » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:59 pm

Don't leave your job. Why the hell would you do that?

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:07 pm

Good job + no specific desire to be a lawyer = ?

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2807
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby 2807 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:15 pm

what is KJD?

Kimikho
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby Kimikho » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:18 pm

tbf, I saw a wall of text and just responded to the generic "non-URM super splitter with legit WE" and went with it. I didn't see where OP indicated not wanting to be a lawyer, though. Maybe a somewhat-flimsy reason to become a lawyer, but yeah.

ETA: KJD = kindergarten-through-JD. No break for work experience.
Last edited by Kimikho on Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Pneumonia
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby Pneumonia » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:18 pm

in no particular order:

-congrats on your 178, LSAT twin
-Mensa is not impressive. Whatever positive effects that might come with someone knowing that you're in it are completely negated by you mentioning it. I disagree that it looks good on a resume, at least not a law school resume, which leads to my third point:
-law school is not b-school. things like test scores are equally (if not more) important, but you don't go about revealing them in the same way (ie for b-school and related jobs its ok to list test scores etc; in the legal world that is a very bad idea).
-no one will care about your letter from your CFO friend (again, not b-school). It is worthwhile inasmuch as it demonstrates you have good work experience, but nothing more. Your resume will obviously demonstrate that which is why I say the letter won't really help you. Try hard to get a good letter from a prof or from someone who can speak about your writing/research ability in an academic setting.
-you do not need to nor will you be able to write the best personal statement for the enrolling class, unless you go to some 4th tier school. you do not need to be edgy. you need to demonstrate that you can write well and that you are capable of sincere self reflection.
-law school is not b-school.

As far your chances go: you are basically a lock at Northwestern, and that's probably the only place that you should consider going. However, as other posters have said you probably shouldn't be considering law school. i assume your grad GPA is from an MBA program? if not that is what you should be doing instead.

From your post it is apparent that you are intelligent, but it also seems like you could stand to do some more research about law school and about the admissions process. It is appreciably different from b-school which from your post it seems like you are more familiar with. I don't mean this at all in a negative way; you just have some pretty stellar qualifications for lots of other things that aren't law school.

KJD= Kindergarten - Juris Doctor (a career student)

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acrossthelake
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby acrossthelake » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:33 pm

I'm not sure I understand why you're pursuing law school instead of business school. Use your academic contact for law school admissions, yes.

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Pneumonia
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby Pneumonia » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:44 pm

acrossthelake wrote:I'm not sure I understand why you're pursuing law school instead of business school. Use your academic contact for law school admissions, yes.


He mentions a grad GPA which I assumed meant MBA which would answer "why not b-school." As to "why law school" I think that is something we are all a little curious about.

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acrossthelake
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby acrossthelake » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:50 pm

Pneumonia wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:I'm not sure I understand why you're pursuing law school instead of business school. Use your academic contact for law school admissions, yes.


He mentions a grad GPA which I assumed meant MBA which would answer "why not b-school." As to "why law school" I think that is something we are all a little curious about.


Why the assumption it was MBA? Do MBA programs often accept people going straight through (as the OP seems to have for the masters)? Most people I've met who went straight to an MBA usually had a really strong undergrad record.

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Pneumonia
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby Pneumonia » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:15 am

acrossthelake wrote:Why the assumption it was MBA? Do MBA programs often accept people going straight through (as the OP seems to have for the masters)? Most people I've met who went straight to an MBA usually had a really strong undergrad record.


Honestly because after reading the post I thought the only reason OP would be considering a JD over an MBA right now was that he had already completed the latter. After re-reading I see that the grad degree was incomplete and a while ago, which makes your original question relevant and my response to it unnecessary.

k1a2t2i7e
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby k1a2t2i7e » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:28 am

Thank you all for the replies. Keep them coming.

I did not finish my MS-INDM (essentially operations management) because of a divorce, as well as the gradual realization that with no relevant work experience no one gets a decent job as an operations manager. Basically, INDM is something mid career people turn to to advance their career. I could have secured a job in that field, but who wants 50k+ in student debt for a job that pays 25-30k with little advancement for many years. I almost made that much in college mowing golf greens and running a weed-eater.

I have always had an interest in law. I, along with a few other classmates, represented my state in the national "We The People..." constitutional debate competition. Seven days in Washington, competing in front of three panel judges. We got our butts kicked but it was fun. When my cellular biology degree failed to materialize I switched to business, from there I discovered something I really enjoyed...Finance. By the time I was graduating, my UGPA coupled with zero relevant work experience led me down the path I felt I was stuck on. I did well in grad school but a failing marriage and the above epiphany pushed me out into the real world. From there it has kind of been a whirlwind... the world of business is cruel.

I have done well. My strengths center around my quick thinking and ability to deconstruct complicated problems and implement simple solutions. I have advanced my career through the contacts I have made along the way. I work very hard and generate results, two things supervisors tend to notice. At the end of the day my career trajectory is flattening. I don't work for a large enough company to make a lateral jump. I would have to take a big responsibility step back(along with compensation) in order to latch onto the rungs at another large corporation. Big companies don't hire people from small companies for very senior positions often, unless you started the company and you are selling it to them. This leaves me with a couple of choices...

1) Stay where I am and hope the company continues to flourish... this is very risky due to the severe lack of vision/intelligence of the man in charge. I promise, where I am will cease to operate within 3-5 years. I could write a text book of how not to run a business based on the things I witness near daily. The success of my current company is due to the hard work and dedication of three people. I am one of them. The other two seem to be looking for a way out. The writing is on the wall.

2) Stay where I am and look for a job. I would very likely need to step into a lesser position. The time required to step back into my tax bracket would easily be 3-5 years at best.

3) Change careers entirely - maybe start a white water rafting company in the arctic circle... probably a bad move.

4) Go to law school. I think my direction with this one is driven out of opportunity. If I can get into a top school, I should. (You all tell me what you think) a few people I grew up with went to law school. I have leaned on them for advice. If I were to get accepted into a T14 I would be a fool to turn it down. If I do not get into a top school I think I will focus on a school that offers some sort of specialization in the energy industry. I have been on the corporate end of some massive deals and I know what we paid in legal fees each time. I think my experience with finance, oil&gas, management...I should be able to find a job working for an energy company in some capacity. A close friend of mine is a very senior land development/contract specialist in Texas for an oil company. I would think my experience + JD could open some doors into an avenue like that. She makes what I make in two months.

Essentially, I feel like it is the best and safest option on the table. It can open doors for me I simply would never get access to otherwise.

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BVest
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby BVest » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:44 am

k1a2t2i7e wrote:I personally think MENSA is a joke, but it does look good on a resume.


No, it doesn't.

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acrossthelake
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:49 am

You don't need a JD. You need a prestigious MBA. Take the GMAT and try applying to places like Harvard, Columbia, Wharton instead of law school. You spend two years networking and then good companies will recruit you. I don't know how much you're making now, but the pay for the jobs people get from top business schools is often good.

Along with the rest of the economy, the legal profession took a severe blow when the recession hit and it has not recovered. I know people at my school--Harvard Law School--who are struggling to find jobs that probably pay less than you make now. I know or know of people at other top law schools who face the same struggle. They are bright, motivated, hard-working people. There are many people who have gone to Top 14 schools who did not find jobs that make it easy for them to pay off that debt. The people you grew up with went to law school during a very different time, in a very different economy. Their advice used to be correct; it's now outdated.

With your undergrad GPA, Northwestern Kids correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not going to be able to get substantial scholarships at any of the top law schools; and out of the Top 14, your main shots are Northwestern and UVa. Those 2 are the most forgiving of low undergrad GPAs with work experience (which you have); the rest tend to not forgive it ever if you're not URM (and even then, those URMs usually have to *bring it* in other categories). So you're going to have to pay a lot of money to take a really risky gamble.

Honestly out of your 4 options, law is the riskiest one(unless you were serious about white water rafting company in the article circle, that's the riskiest). I'm not saying you're guaranteed to fail; we're talking odds and probabilities and the odds for law school aren't good.

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Mullens
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby Mullens » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:50 am

BVest wrote:
k1a2t2i7e wrote:I personally think MENSA is a joke, but it does look good on a resume.


No, it doesn't.



Where would you even put this on your resume? I can't imagine how it would come across as anything other than pretentious, and not in the preftigious way.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby TheSpanishMain » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:38 am

What would an "edgy" personal statement look like?

k1a2t2i7e
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby k1a2t2i7e » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:55 am

TheSpanishMain: I meant a PS that is not guarded or safe. I have read over dozens of actual PS that people on various law school forums have posted. Some have an edge to them while others sound boring and feel as though the writer simply didn't want to hurt their chance at admission.

The LSAT was very natural to me. I scored over 160 on the first practice test I attempted. The GMAT is not so natural for me. I honestly don't know if I can score in the 750-800 range. I would need a score of that magnitude in order to offset my low GPA.

Most graduating law students are 26 with very little practical experience in the business world(or any world). I have tangible experience that businesses may want to tap into with the added bonus of a JD. My first choice of jobs in the legal world would not be 80 hours a week making $30.37 an hour ($160,000 broken down into its parts... $30.37*2080 hours + 1.5*$30.37*2080 hours) I would prefer a much more pedestrian 50 hours a week and work for a private company (not a law firm).

I will need to research more.

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acrossthelake
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:31 pm

If you want to work at a private company as a lawyer, get in line. A lot of people want that instead of a law firm; many of those corporations refuse to hire you without X years experience as a *lawyer* at a firm.

If you're hoping to be hired for a business job, any boost the J.D. gives you is very unlikely to be offset by the cost (tuition+opportunity cost).

Google NY TIMES and law school. Your information of the value of a J.D. seems rather outdated.

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Pneumonia
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby Pneumonia » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:07 pm

Lol at law grads no having any experience. Sure that is sometimes the case, but at most top schools and especially at top-top schools work experience is the norm.

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Flips88
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Re: I am 29! Will be 30 for Fall of 2015

Postby Flips88 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:12 pm

Your stats and age make you a perfect fit for Northwestern. But your personality is super off putting. Might want to reel in your ego for the application process and law school in general...




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