The odds are likely not in my favor.

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wsparker
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Re: The odds are likely not in my favor.

Postby wsparker » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:16 am

Hat Trick wrote:
tschr14 wrote:
drawstring wrote:A 156 diagnostic is solid. I know of several people who have leaped from there to the 170s.


That is really encouraging. I assumed a 10 point leap was extremely unlikely.

Some encouragement: I went from a 155 cold diagnostic to a 173 in October and a 177 in December thanks to the amazing resources on TLS. DO NOT settle for a 160 or even a 165. With a 156 diagnostic, you have a great shot at a 170+ on the real thing. With your military background, that could mean a full ride to UVA.


I also got a 156 diagnostic, and after only 1 month prep, increased by 10 points for the real thing and am retaking in June. It is definitely doable!

tschr14
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Re: The odds are likely not in my favor.

Postby tschr14 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:34 am

Hat Trick wrote:
tschr14 wrote:
drawstring wrote:A 156 diagnostic is solid. I know of several people who have leaped from there to the 170s.


That is really encouraging. I assumed a 10 point leap was extremely unlikely.

Some encouragement: I went from a 155 cold diagnostic to a 173 in October and a 177 in December thanks to the amazing resources on TLS. DO NOT settle for a 160 or even a 165. With a 156 diagnostic, you have a great shot at a 170+ on the real thing. With your military background, that could mean a full ride to UVA.


Thanks for the reply. I am curious why you mentioned UVA. Originally t they wad one of my first choices but it seemed like they weren't really big on military since their yellow ribbon scholarship was only $2500 which would leave me with like 25k in unfunded tuition. I toured the "grounds" last spring and really loved the location and my wife did also so if I could potentially have a funded education there it would be perfect for us.

tschr14
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Re: The odds are likely not in my favor.

Postby tschr14 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:41 am

tschr14 wrote:
Hat Trick wrote:
tschr14 wrote:
drawstring wrote:A 156 diagnostic is solid. I know of several people who have leaped from there to the 170s.


That is really encouraging. I assumed a 10 point leap was extremely unlikely.

Some encouragement: I went from a 155 cold diagnostic to a 173 in October and a 177 in December thanks to the amazing resources on TLS. DO NOT settle for a 160 or even a 165. With a 156 diagnostic, you have a great shot at a 170+ on the real thing. With your military background, that could mean a full ride to UVA.


Thanks for the reply. I am curious why you mentioned UVA. Originally t they wad one of my first choices but it seemed like they weren't really big on military since their yellow ribbon scholarship was only $2500 which would leave me with like 25k in unfunded tuition. I toured the "grounds" last spring and really loved the location and my wife did also so if I could potentially have a funded education there it would be perfect for us.


Sorry for spelling mistakes. Not used to new phone yet.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: The odds are likely not in my favor.

Postby ScottRiqui » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:55 am

tschr14 wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I am curious why you mentioned UVA. Originally t they wad one of my first choices but it seemed like they weren't really big on military since their yellow ribbon scholarship was only $2500 which would leave me with like 25k in unfunded tuition. I toured the "grounds" last spring and really loved the location and my wife did also so if I could potentially have a funded education there it would be perfect for us.



UVA is actually a GREAT school for prior military. They automatically grant in-state tuition to anyone attending under the GI Bill, which means that the Post-9/11 GI Bill will pay 100% of tuition and fees, making the Yellow Ribbon Program irrelevant. UVA could actually drop the YRP entirely now, and I suspect they will at some point.

ETA - Check out this spreadsheet; more than half of the T14 have their tuition & fees completely covered by the GI Bill, either by itself or in conjunction with the YRP.

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Re: The odds are likely not in my favor.

Postby tschr14 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:22 am

ScottRiqui wrote:
UVA is actually a GREAT school for prior military. They automatically grant in-state tuition to anyone attending under the GI Bill, which means that the Post-9/11 GI Bill will pay 100% of tuition and fees, making the Yellow Ribbon Program irrelevant. UVA could actually drop the YRP entirely now, and I suspect they will at some point.

ETA - Check out this spreadsheet; more than half of the T14 have their tuition & fees completely covered by the GI Bill, either by itself or in conjunction with the YRP.


I actually put together a spreadsheet very similar to this one although it was not as large. Thanks! I was wondering though, shouldn't I be careful with schools like Wisconsin, ASU and WU-St. Louis because they have such limited amount of scholarships they offer? I completely overlooked the differences in GI bill funding in different states but I was hesitant to consider schools like Wisconsin because they only offer, for example, 2 scholarships and I assumed those 2 were for the entire law school which would leave any other veterans using the GI Bill with a substantial amount of tuition to finance. I could be wrong which would be great in this situation because I was automatically dismissing schools like UCLA because of the odds of actually getting YRP were slim. Also, I noticed a few schools not included in the "virtually free" category that I had in my spreadsheet such as University of Pittsburgh, DePaul University and Pepperdine University. Is there something I should be aware of with these schools that I should consider? Thanks again everyone has been a huge help already.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: The odds are likely not in my favor.

Postby ScottRiqui » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:54 am

tschr14 wrote:I actually put together a spreadsheet very similar to this one although it was not as large. Thanks! I was wondering though, shouldn't I be careful with schools like Wisconsin, ASU and WU-St. Louis because they have such limited amount of scholarships they offer? I completely overlooked the differences in GI bill funding in different states but I was hesitant to consider schools like Wisconsin because they only offer, for example, 2 scholarships and I assumed those 2 were for the entire law school which would leave any other veterans using the GI Bill with a substantial amount of tuition to finance. I could be wrong which would be great in this situation because I was automatically dismissing schools like UCLA because of the odds of actually getting YRP were slim. Also, I noticed a few schools not included in the "virtually free" category that I had in my spreadsheet such as University of Pittsburgh, DePaul University and Pepperdine University. Is there something I should be aware of with these schools that I should consider? Thanks again everyone has been a huge help already.


Craig's spreadsheet that I linked to earlier only covers the "Tier One" (top 50) schools, so that's why Pittsburgh, DePaul and Pepperdine weren't on it. And with more than half of the top 50 free with the GI Bill/YRP, it would take a very special set of circumstances for a school down in the 60s or 100s to make much sense.

You're right that some schools appear to have a very limited number of YRP slots. The best thing to do would be to call the school and ask to speak with the Yellow Ribbon Program coordinator, or the Veteran's Liason. They will be able to tell you how many slots are still available. To use one of your examples, for all I know, Wisconsin might not have ever had both YRP slots filled at the same time, so two might be plenty.

There's also a chance that the number of slots and/or maximum contribution per slot has changed since Craig put that spreadsheet together. Some of the schools are still fine-tuning their YRP in response to the Post-9/11 GI Bill change from paying based on an hourly rate to just having an outright cap.

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Re: The odds are likely not in my favor.

Postby tschr14 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:10 pm

So I am currently looking for a job to fill in the gap between law school and my undergrad. I was thinking it might be advantageous to look for a job in Virginia. The reason being is the school I would like to get into the most is UVA now and I thoouht this may increase my odds of acceptance. Would moving to virginia to claim residency be a wise decision? I do not think I would be able to claim residency in time but if I have employment and a lease in Virginia couldnt I then claim residency? If so I think (possibly mistakenly) that I would have a much better chance at getting in since 40% of seats are reserved for residents and they receive so many more out of state apps than in state.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: The odds are likely not in my favor.

Postby ScottRiqui » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:22 pm

tschr14 wrote:So I am currently looking for a job to fill in the gap between law school and my undergrad. I was thinking it might be advantageous to look for a job in Virginia. The reason being is the school I would like to get into the most is UVA now and I thoouht this may increase my odds of acceptance. Would moving to virginia to claim residency be a wise decision? I do not think I would be able to claim residency in time but if I have employment and a lease in Virginia couldnt I then claim residency? If so I think (possibly mistakenly) that I would have a much better chance at getting in since 40% of seats are reserved for residents and they receive so many more out of state apps than in state.


Looking through Virginia's domicile guidelines, it seems that the one-year requirement prior to claiming residency for in-state tuition is pretty hard-and-fast. Also, it specifically says that if you're in Virginia primarily to go to school, that doesn't make you a resident.

If you want to go this route, I think you would need at least one full year in the state first, and also do everything you possibly can to make it clear you intend to stay in Virginia. Get a Virginia driver's license, voter registration, car registration, pay Virginia state income taxes, get a job, buy land/property if feasible and pay property taxes, etc.

kcdc1
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Re: The odds are likely not in my favor.

Postby kcdc1 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:02 pm

Don't stress about the 3.1 GPA. I'm going through the application process with a 2.8, and I'm in at a couple T-14's. With your military service and softs, your GPA won't hold you back. But you will need a good LSAT. As others have said, a 156 diagnostic is a reasonable starting point. If you study well, you will hit 170+, and you'll be golden.

As for Virginia, you do get a significant bump as an in-state applicant. But I doubt less than 1 year of residency will make the cut. I wouldn't jerk your life (and wife) around too much to get the in-state boost. If you do well on the LSAT, you'll have lots of great schools in play, and you'll get into UVA even without in-state status.

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JazzieShizzle
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Re: The odds are likely not in my favor.

Postby JazzieShizzle » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:35 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:
tschr14 wrote:So I am currently looking for a job to fill in the gap between law school and my undergrad. I was thinking it might be advantageous to look for a job in Virginia. The reason being is the school I would like to get into the most is UVA now and I thoouht this may increase my odds of acceptance. Would moving to virginia to claim residency be a wise decision? I do not think I would be able to claim residency in time but if I have employment and a lease in Virginia couldnt I then claim residency? If so I think (possibly mistakenly) that I would have a much better chance at getting in since 40% of seats are reserved for residents and they receive so many more out of state apps than in state.


Looking through Virginia's domicile guidelines, it seems that the one-year requirement prior to claiming residency for in-state tuition is pretty hard-and-fast. Also, it specifically says that if you're in Virginia primarily to go to school, that doesn't make you a resident.

If you want to go this route, I think you would need at least one full year in the state first, and also do everything you possibly can to make it clear you intend to stay in Virginia. Get a Virginia driver's license, voter registration, car registration, pay Virginia state income taxes, get a job, buy land/property if feasible and pay property taxes, etc.

Virginia grants in-state tuition to veterans, so you don't have to worry about all that.
--LinkRemoved--

The only thing I'm not sure of is whether you will be evaluated as a resident if you aren't a resident at the time you apply. I'm sure the admissions office could answer that question for you, or direct you to someone who can.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: The odds are likely not in my favor.

Postby ScottRiqui » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:45 pm

JazzieShizzle wrote:Virginia grants in-state tuition to veterans, so you don't have to worry about all that.
--LinkRemoved--

The only thing I'm not sure of is whether you will be evaluated as a resident if you aren't a resident at the time you apply. I'm sure the admissions office could answer that question for you, or direct you to someone who can.


Yep, you're right about in-state tuition; I totally blanked on his veteran status. I don't know if he'll count toward the in-state quota either, though.

tschr14
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Re: The odds are likely not in my favor.

Postby tschr14 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:01 pm

Thanks for the info. Getting residency for the admissions process is my goal in finding work in Virginia. I figure since UVA is the school I want to attend the most applying ED as a resident would be the best chance of acceptance.

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Re: The odds are likely not in my favor.

Postby tschr14 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:30 am

So another question, although this may be better fitting as a new topic. I have discussed with my wife what scenario would be best for me if I were to not get desirable job type of scenario in my gap between law school and finishing my bachelors this May.
First Scenario: To attend graduate school for the year and take out loans (I currently have no student debt) to get an M.A. in Economics at Cleveland State. The reason I think this may be good is that it would further develop my research ability, however, it may be more difficult and result in a lower GPA than scenario 2.

Second Scenario: To stay at John Carroll an additional year and double major. If I were to stay at John Carroll I could double major in Philosophy and possibly even complete a concentration in Math. Since John Carroll is a liberal arts school I have a pretty strong Philosophy background and could complete it with one additional year. This may be more attractive because it would give me the chance to increase my GPA at John Carroll over that year. However, to save my GI bill, I would need to take on student loans. This is unattractive because it would probably be a larger amount of debt since it is private school education.

Both of these scenarios are not ideal (finding an attractive job would be most ideal) because they do not really give my wife the opportunity to go to school full time.

Third Scenario: To join the military for another four year enlistment and postpone law school until after that enlistment. This may be ideal in terms of offering my wife the opportunity to go to school, but it is a four year commitment meaning I would be 29 before even starting law school. However, I would have 8 years of military service which may be a strong point on a law school app.

I understand that this is pretty much a "whatever suits my personal needs the best" scenario but I am curious which of these would look best/worst on a law school application. I would imagine that my GPA would be better in the double major scenario instead of the masters scenario but that is not definite. I personally would like to prevent going back into active duty if possible but I must admit it does have some attractive benefits. Forward looking, would large law firms be interested in a law student at this age (roughly 32 at graduation)?

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ScottRiqui
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Re: The odds are likely not in my favor.

Postby ScottRiqui » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:18 am

Agreed that it's going to come down to whatever works best for you and your wife, but regarding the second scenario and taking out loans to "save" your GI Bill, how many months of eligibility do you have left? You said earlier that you'll have almost the full 36 months, and I think law school will only consume about 27 months of eligibility, so going to school for another year before LS might be a nice way to use up the difference.

tschr14
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Re: The odds are likely not in my favor.

Postby tschr14 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:50 am

ScottRiqui wrote:Agreed that it's going to come down to whatever works best for you and your wife, but regarding the second scenario and taking out loans to "save" your GI Bill, how many months of eligibility do you have left? You said earlier that you'll have almost the full 36 months, and I think law school will only consume about 27 months of eligibility, so going to school for another year before LS might be a nice way to use up the difference.


Sorry for the mix-up I currently have 21 months and 14 days remaining for law school (just checked). I was told if you have only one day remaining of benefits VA would cover the entire semester so if I am planning correctly I should have only a few weeks left for my final semester of law school so that final semester is covered.

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JazzieShizzle
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Re: The odds are likely not in my favor.

Postby JazzieShizzle » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:51 am

Just want to make sure you know that only the undergrad GPA counts for law school admissions. They will of course see any graduate work you've done, so a bad grad school GPA could be a red flag, but it's not as important as undergrad GPA.

Wouldn't you have to commit to either of these decisions before you actually know what your job situation will be? Personally, I think you just need to do what you think is best for your family based on factors you can control. Does that make sense?

Also, I will be almost 30 when I start LS. I'm not thrilled about that, but I don't think it will be much of a negative.

tschr14
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Re: The odds are likely not in my favor.

Postby tschr14 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:38 am

JazzieShizzle wrote:Just want to make sure you know that only the undergrad GPA counts for law school admissions. They will of course see any graduate work you've done, so a bad grad school GPA could be a red flag, but it's not as important as undergrad GPA.

Wouldn't you have to commit to either of these decisions before you actually know what your job situation will be? Personally, I think you just need to do what you think is best for your family based on factors you can control. Does that make sense?

Also, I will be almost 30 when I start LS. I'm not thrilled about that, but I don't think it will be much of a negative.


I did not know that about grad school GPA so that changes the situation. As for making a decision, not really I would just go to Cleveland State for grad school which I already was accepted to and I may need to inform my current university I dont intend on graduating in May but the jobs I figure I have until Mid April to find a job to give me time for the other plans if need be.




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