How much will Fulbright & AmeriCorps help me?

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butrlydoe
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How much will Fulbright & AmeriCorps help me?

Postby butrlydoe » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:50 pm

I have a 3.7 and 167 lsat... for top ten schools (Berkeley, Stanford, Yale), will my work as a Fulbright scholar and AmeriCorps*VISTA make a difference? I'm in the lower gpa/lsat range for these places, so I'm hoping these soft factors will be taken into account.

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koalacity
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Re: How much will Fulbright & AmeriCorps help me?

Postby koalacity » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:06 pm

butrlydoe wrote:I have a 3.7 and 167 lsat... for top ten schools (Berkeley, Stanford, Yale), will my work as a Fulbright scholar and AmeriCorps*VISTA make a difference? I'm in the lower gpa/lsat range for these places, so I'm hoping these soft factors will be taken into account.

They will definitely help, but not enough to give you remotely good odds at YSB (unless you're URM). I'd say your odds are Berkeley may be greater than what mylsn shows (which is a whole lot of red) because they do appear somewhat more holistic in their review than their peer schools, but you still don't have very good odds due to your (for Berkeley) "low" GPA. YS are going to be next to impossible (again, unless you're URM). Can you sit out a cycle and retake the LSAT? Berkeley also gives a pretty significant boost to early applicants, so if you're only now applying, you'll have that working against you. Your GPA is still going to hurt you at all three even with a higher LSAT, but you really need to be above-median LSAT at YS to even have a prayer there with your GPA.

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nothingtosee
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Re: How much will Fulbright & AmeriCorps help me?

Postby nothingtosee » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:22 pm

Retake.
With same gpa and 172 LSAT I got an interview at Harvard (basically same softs). You're really shortchanging yourself if you don't retake.

butrlydoe
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Re: How much will Fulbright & AmeriCorps help me?

Postby butrlydoe » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:38 pm

koalacity wrote:
butrlydoe wrote:I have a 3.7 and 167 lsat... for top ten schools (Berkeley, Stanford, Yale), will my work as a Fulbright scholar and AmeriCorps*VISTA make a difference? I'm in the lower gpa/lsat range for these places, so I'm hoping these soft factors will be taken into account.

They will definitely help, but not enough to give you remotely good odds at YSB (unless you're URM). I'd say your odds are Berkeley may be greater than what mylsn shows (which is a whole lot of red) because they do appear somewhat more holistic in their review than their peer schools, but you still don't have very good odds due to your (for Berkeley) "low" GPA. YS are going to be next to impossible (again, unless you're URM). Can you sit out a cycle and retake the LSAT? Berkeley also gives a pretty significant boost to early applicants, so if you're only now applying, you'll have that working against you. Your GPA is still going to hurt you at all three even with a higher LSAT, but you really need to be above-median LSAT at YS to even have a prayer there with your GPA.


I thought the same, but I was encouraged to apply by friends with similar numbers who were waitlisted and/or accepted at those places. We all share a diversity factor, however, and part of the reason for my GPA is that I financed my undergrad education. They all wound up at Berkeley, so who knows.

Anyway, I wish that there was a better way of knowing how schools determine soft factors.

butrlydoe
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Re: How much will Fulbright & AmeriCorps help me?

Postby butrlydoe » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:39 pm

nothingtosee wrote:Retake.
With same gpa and 172 LSAT I got an interview at Harvard (basically same softs). You're really shortchanging yourself if you don't retake.


Unfortunately, it's just not an option with my work schedule this year. I'm not set on these schools, but I'm curious to see if they will even be options.

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stillwater
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Re: How much will Fulbright & AmeriCorps help me?

Postby stillwater » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:41 pm

butrlydoe wrote:
nothingtosee wrote:Retake.
With same gpa and 172 LSAT I got an interview at Harvard (basically same softs). You're really shortchanging yourself if you don't retake.


Unfortunately, it's just not an option with my work schedule this year. I'm not set on these schools, but I'm curious to see if they will even be options.


only answer is retake. if you cant make it work with your work schedule, then you shouldn't go to law school. harsh but true.

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koalacity
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Re: How much will Fulbright & AmeriCorps help me?

Postby koalacity » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:24 pm

butrlydoe wrote:I thought the same, but I was encouraged to apply by friends with similar numbers who were waitlisted and/or accepted at those places. We all share a diversity factor, however, and part of the reason for my GPA is that I financed my undergrad education. They all wound up at Berkeley, so who knows.

Anyway, I wish that there was a better way of knowing how schools determine soft factors.

By "a diversity factor," do you mean that you're URM (or that any of them were)? That makes an enormous difference in your chances, and would change the advice you're getting dramatically. I think the chances of non-URM 167/3.7s actually getting accepted to YS are probably less than 1%.

Many people on LSN are going to have similar (or even more impressive) softs, so if they didn't get in with numbers around yours, don't assume that your chances are necessarily better. Your softs are impressive, though.
butrlydoe wrote:Unfortunately, it's just not an option with my work schedule this year. I'm not set on these schools, but I'm curious to see if they will even be options.

YS are almost certainly out. Berkeley is possible, but unlikely, especially if you're applying this late.

Look, there's no good reason why you should shortchange your goals/pay sticker at a lower T14 by not retaking. Seriously, there are people who work 80+ hour weeks on here who managed to retake regardless of their crazy work schedules. If you wait a cycle, and aim to take in October, you have nearly NINE months to study. You can absolutely fit in enough studying even working crazy hours over such an extended period.

If you don't believe us, you can certainly apply this cycle (I believe some schools do fee waivers for AmeriCorps/TFA/PC, and you may qualify for need-based fee waivers from Y and S, though you'll still have to pay the LSAC report fee unless you qualified for LSAC's fee waiver), and if you don't get into any of YSB, retake and apply again next cycle. But don't settle for another school that you won't be happy going to (especially going at sticker) just because you think your work schedule is too busy for you to retake. I promise you it's not.

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Robbin Blue
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Re: How much will Fulbright & AmeriCorps help me?

Postby Robbin Blue » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:40 pm

butrlydoe wrote:I have a 3.7 and 167 lsat... for top ten schools (Berkeley, Stanford, Yale), will my work as a Fulbright scholar and AmeriCorps*VISTA make a difference? I'm in the lower gpa/lsat range for these places, so I'm hoping these soft factors will be taken into account.


No. Sorry. Retake. Sorry your work schedule is so rough that the option of saving literally tens of thousands of dollars isn't worth it.

09042014
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Re: How much will Fulbright & AmeriCorps help me?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:28 pm

Isn't AmeriCorps a glorified make-work program for the nearly homeless?

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teampeeta
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Re: How much will Fulbright & AmeriCorps help me?

Postby teampeeta » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:26 am

I would echo the retake chorus. I think the only softs that would make Berkeley, Stanford, and Yale realistic possibilities with your numbers would be game changers (Rhodes/Marshall scholarship, Olympic medalist, best-selling author, etc.). Unfortunately your numbers, while impressive in the larger scheme of things, are on the low end for the schools you're looking at. Because law school admissions is numbers-driven for most people, the most common advice you'll see here is to do what you can to improve your numbers. If you get to 170+ then Berkeley is more doable, but they prefer high GPAs and 3.7 usually isn't impressive to them. Ditto Stanford and Yale. I think you'd need 174+ for a realistic shot there and even then it may not work out. A friend of mine got WL'd at YLS and dinged at SLS with a 3.7X/178 from an Ivy. She's now at HLS so things worked out fine for her, but it's cold out in these streets even with applications down this year.

Buck Strickland
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Re: How much will Fulbright & AmeriCorps help me?

Postby Buck Strickland » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:22 pm

If those are the schools you really want to attend, then the answer is retake. I know that means lots of extra work and, in your case, probably having to wait until the next cycle to apply, but since your GPA is so good, a high LSAT score could open up all sorts of doors.

But don't discount what's already available to you with your current numbers. You could get you decent money at lots of top tier schools. Even with a 3.7 and a better LSAT, I don't think it's likely that you'd get much money (or any money) from your top schools, especially this late in the game.




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