Top Law Schools

Deleted, thanks

Depends entirely on what high 160s and what 3.8 we are talking about. Cant tell you much otherwise. Congrats on the schools you are in at already, great options.

If 169, strong chance at NYU and Penn, less at Chicago and little at Columbia. If over S gpa median, then some slim chance there - out at H.

If 168 or below, not a great shot at the rest but some later in the cycle or off WL at NYU/Penn , depending on gpa.

jbagelboy wrote:Depends entirely on what high 160s and what 3.8 we are talking about. Cant tell you much otherwise. Congrats on the schools you are in at already, great options.

If 169, strong chance at NYU and Penn, less at Chicago and little at Columbia. If over S gpa median, then some slim chance there - out at H.

If 168 or below, not a great shot at the rest but some later in the cycle or off WL at NYU/Penn , depending on gpa.

"High 160s LSAT" has got to be a 168, right?

Anyway, http://www.mylsn.info

Could you get more vague? Why not just say you took the LSAT, and let us guess...

Clearly wrote:Could you get more vague? Why not just say you took the LSAT, and let us guess...

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redsoxfan1989 wrote:

Clearly wrote:Could you get more vague? Why not just say you took the LSAT, and let us guess...

Ok, I'll play. 169.

You've got a great shot at Penn then.

I'm sorry, but this is an absolute joke if it's true. A one point increase (which is literally ONE QUESTION on the LSAT) is the difference between having a great chance and having little chance at [X] school? How does that make any sense? Guess right on one 50/50 question and you're into NYU; guess wrong and you're out?

liammial wrote:I'm sorry, but this is an absolute joke if it's true. A one point increase (which is literally ONE QUESTION on the LSAT) is the difference between having a great chance and having little chance at [X] school? How does that make any sense? Guess right on one 50/50 question and you're into NYU; guess wrong and you're out?

If you want things to make sense then law might not be the field for you.

liammial wrote:I'm sorry, but this is an absolute joke if it's true. A one point increase (which is literally ONE QUESTION on the LSAT) is the difference between having a great chance and having little chance at [X] school? How does that make any sense? Guess right on one 50/50 question and you're into NYU; guess wrong and you're out?

It used to be 170 and 169. Now, 169 is the new 170, so 168 is good for lower T14, but shoot for 169 for T7.

liammial wrote:I'm sorry, but this is an absolute joke if it's true. A one point increase (which is literally ONE QUESTION on the LSAT) is the difference between having a great chance and having little chance at [X] school? How does that make any sense? Guess right on one 50/50 question and you're into NYU; guess wrong and you're out?

That's how admissions tests and medians work...If you get things right, you get better results. This is a problem? A school with a 170 median is helped by a student with a 171, and hurt by a student with a 169... It's a fine line, but there has to be a line somewhere...

Clearly wrote:

liammial wrote:I'm sorry, but this is an absolute joke if it's true. A one point increase (which is literally ONE QUESTION on the LSAT) is the difference between having a great chance and having little chance at [X] school? How does that make any sense? Guess right on one 50/50 question and you're into NYU; guess wrong and you're out?

That's how admissions tests and medians work...If you get things right, you get better results. This is a problem? A school with a 170 median is helped by a student with a 171, and hurt by a student with a 169... It's a fine line, but there has to be a line somewhere...

This. Medians are used for rankings >>> Medians are valued by admins >>>small differences that make you at/above/below medians matter.

Also, a one point increase is not always one question. Could be two. And guessing on 5 option multiple choice exam is worse than 50/50 chances. More importantly: one or two additional questions correct at the margin will likely be harder questions, at least as you approach 170's. Those top difficulty 10-15 questions could be worthy of their differentiation power.

Fiero85 wrote:

Clearly wrote:

liammial wrote: Also, a one point increase is not always one question. Could be two. And guessing on 5 option multiple choice exam is worse than 50/50 chances. More importantly: one or two additional questions correct at the margin will likely be harder questions, at least as you approach 170's. Those top difficulty 10-15 questions could be worthy of their differentiation power.

This makes sense, and I suppose, is correct. But, I understand the argument against it. We all tested all over the place for ever. Then, even when ready to take the test, most of us have a 2-3 point range. So, your logic makes sense. But, assuming everyone operates within a 2-3 or even 4 point range when ready to test, that makes the 1 point much less significance from the scorer's perspective.

All said, like any standardized test, Law Schools should find a way to take a more formative picture of students rather than only a summative picture.

But, that gets away from the OP. Sorry, I don't have any insight on that. Wish I could help, and good luck.

Thanks for the guidance all -- I'll just wait for the likely inevitable waitlisting and hope that the schools that I have gotten into decide to give me help!

yossarian71 wrote:But, assuming everyone operates within a 2-3 or even 4 point range when ready to test, that makes the 1 point much less significance from the scorer's perspective.

The key here is that law schools can't report out what you are CAPABLE of scoring, but what you ACTUALLY scored. That's why people offer the advice "retake" so frequently on here. Often, just a couple of questions can mean the difference between a school worth attending or a place that likely leaves you with a bad outcome.

Like it or not, that's how it is. C'est la vie.

yossarian71 wrote:

Fiero85 wrote:

Clearly wrote:

liammial wrote: Also, a one point increase is not always one question. Could be two. And guessing on 5 option multiple choice exam is worse than 50/50 chances. More importantly: one or two additional questions correct at the margin will likely be harder questions, at least as you approach 170's. Those top difficulty 10-15 questions could be worthy of their differentiation power.

This makes sense, and I suppose, is correct. But, I understand the argument against it. We all tested all over the place for ever. Then, even when ready to take the test, most of us have a 2-3 point range. So, your logic makes sense. But, assuming everyone operates within a 2-3 or even 4 point range when ready to test, that makes the 1 point much less significance from the scorer's perspective.

All said, like any standardized test, Law Schools should find a way to take a more formative picture of students rather than only a summative picture.

But, that gets away from the OP. Sorry, I don't have any insight on that. Wish I could help, and good luck.

Yeah sorry for hijacking, OP. Good luck!

But addressing this: Game day is game day. Schools not taking your official score for what it is would be unfair to people who actually made it happen under pressure and scored higher (I scored 4-5 points under my PT avg, twice, so don't take this as a cold condescending perspective). Real life is full of one-shot tests where you lack time and information, and will be evaluated almost completely by that one result. Theoretically everyone has the same task at hand, and those who show up for the real thing and dominate, or even just score one or two more points higher within their normal range, deserve credit for it.

Bedsole wrote:

yossarian71 wrote:But, assuming everyone operates within a 2-3 or even 4 point range when ready to test, that makes the 1 point much less significance from the scorer's perspective.

The key here is that law schools can't report out what you are CAPABLE of scoring, but what you ACTUALLY scored. That's why people offer the advice "retake" so frequently on here. Often, just a couple of questions can mean the difference between a school worth attending or a place that likely leaves you with a bad outcome.

Like it or not, that's how it is. C'est la vie.

True. Also, it's helpful to stop thinking about the LSAT as having a 61-point range (120 to 180), because that allows you to falsely minimize the effect of missing "just one" point or "just one" question.

The top FIFTY law schools have LSAT medians that fall within a fourteen-point range from 159 to 173. If you're interested in T20 schools, all of their medians fall within a nine-point range. Make no mistake - the LSAT is a game of inches.

yossarian71 wrote:

Fiero85 wrote:

Clearly wrote:

liammial wrote: Also, a one point increase is not always one question. Could be two. And guessing on 5 option multiple choice exam is worse than 50/50 chances. More importantly: one or two additional questions correct at the margin will likely be harder questions, at least as you approach 170's. Those top difficulty 10-15 questions could be worthy of their differentiation power.

This makes sense, and I suppose, is correct. But, I understand the argument against it. We all tested all over the place for ever. Then, even when ready to take the test, most of us have a 2-3 point range. So, your logic makes sense. But, assuming everyone operates within a 2-3 or even 4 point range when ready to test, that makes the 1 point much less significance from the scorer's perspective.

All said, like any standardized test, Law Schools should find a way to take a more formative picture of students rather than only a summative picture.

But, that gets away from the OP. Sorry, I don't have any insight on that. Wish I could help, and good luck.

Here's some advice that will serve you well: lawyers have no interest in actually evaluating the merits of people who apply for entry-level jobs. The entire system is a bunch of proxy measures of prestige and intelligence, which are used because they save a lot of time. These work well in broad strokes, but the simplicity of the system breeds arbitrariness at the margins.

The law student version of this is going to a school 10 spots higher in USNWR in a completely different market from the one you want to practice and at a higher costs because you failed to perform due diligence on the legal job market.

timbs4339 wrote: The law student version of this is going to a school 10 spots higher in USNWR in a completely different market from the one you want to practice and at a higher costs because you failed to perform due diligence on the legal job market.

Unless its a t14 school right? For example, if I want Boston BigLaw, I am better off at Michigan sticker than BU/BC sticker. (Even up to a substantial discount, no?)

redsoxfan1989 wrote:

timbs4339 wrote: The law student version of this is going to a school 10 spots higher in USNWR in a completely different market from the one you want to practice and at a higher costs because you failed to perform due diligence on the legal job market.

Unless its a t14 school right? For example, if I want Boston BigLaw, I am better off at Michigan sticker than BU/BC sticker. (Even up to a substantial discount, no?)

Of course, but Michigan sticker vs BU/BC full ride is a tougher decision. It really comes down to how much you want any biglaw vs how much you want to stay in Boston.

timbs4339 wrote:

redsoxfan1989 wrote:

timbs4339 wrote: The law student version of this is going to a school 10 spots higher in USNWR in a completely different market from the one you want to practice and at a higher costs because you failed to perform due diligence on the legal job market.

Unless its a t14 school right? For example, if I want Boston BigLaw, I am better off at Michigan sticker than BU/BC sticker. (Even up to a substantial discount, no?)

Of course, but Michigan sticker vs BU/BC full ride is a tougher decision. It really comes down to how much you want any biglaw vs how much you want to stay in Boston.

Chances on getting that kind of $$$ from BU/BC? Any information on whether they throw that type of cash around would be greatly appreciated.

redsoxfan1989 wrote:

timbs4339 wrote:

redsoxfan1989 wrote:

timbs4339 wrote: The law student version of this is going to a school 10 spots higher in USNWR in a completely different market from the one you want to practice and at a higher costs because you failed to perform due diligence on the legal job market.

Unless its a t14 school right? For example, if I want Boston BigLaw, I am better off at Michigan sticker than BU/BC sticker. (Even up to a substantial discount, no?)

Of course, but Michigan sticker vs BU/BC full ride is a tougher decision. It really comes down to how much you want any biglaw vs how much you want to stay in Boston.

Chances on getting that kind of $$$ from BU/BC? Any information on whether they throw that type of cash around would be greatly appreciated.

Dude.

http://www.mylsn.info

BigZuck wrote:
Dude.

http://www.mylsn.info

Sorry for asking an absurd question. I somewhat doubt the reliability of LSN on this issue given that 1) not everyone updates their scholarship info and 2) there is a low sample size. Hence why I posted. Thanks.

redsoxfan1989 wrote:

BigZuck wrote:
Dude.

http://www.mylsn.info

Sorry for asking an absurd question. I somewhat doubt the reliability of LSN on this issue given that 1) not everyone updates their scholarship info and 2) there is a low sample size. Hence why I posted. Thanks.

It's probably going to be more reliable than random TLS anecdotes.

BigZuck wrote:

redsoxfan1989 wrote:

BigZuck wrote:
Dude.

http://www.mylsn.info

Sorry for asking an absurd question. I somewhat doubt the reliability of LSN on this issue given that 1) not everyone updates their scholarship info and 2) there is a low sample size. Hence why I posted. Thanks.

It's probably going to be more reliable than random TLS anecdotes.

Maybe, but I don't follow why its so outrageous to ask on a "What are my chances" forum for additional guidance. Thanks for the duplicative posting though, it is much appreciated!

redsoxfan1989 wrote:

BigZuck wrote:
Dude.

http://www.mylsn.info

Sorry for asking an absurd question. I somewhat doubt the reliability of LSN on this issue given that 1) not everyone updates their scholarship info and 2) there is a low sample size. Hence why I posted. Thanks.

Well, it's good at figuring out whether there are full rides available and what the scholly breakdowns generally are. Assume that you have a pretty good shot at a full ride once you are over 75/75.