159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

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unodostres
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby unodostres » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:23 am

Loyola is a shit school. If you have a guaranteed job then go for free. It's all the Same shit whether you're at tjls or hys.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby ManoftheHour » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:35 am

kcolleen wrote:
matthewsean85 wrote:Has a hiring partner guaranteed you a position when you graduate?


Yes.


Dafuq...

Then why did you ED UCLA? So you can pay 250k+ for...the same job? Seriously OP. Pull out of that ED in the very very very unlikely event that they accept you ED. If you have a guaranteed job, it makes NO SENSE whatsoever for you to shell out that kind of money when you can graduate debt free and work the same job. Do that like right now. You do know ED is binding if they accept you right?

That doesn't make sense. If what you say is true, go to ANY ABA accredited school that throws you a full ride and then some.

Have you thought about Southwestern? I think with your stats, you could probably go there for free. My friend with a 3.4/158 non-urm was offered a 20k/yr scholly there two cycles ago.

I don't understand why you would want to pay for Loyola or UCLA if you have a job lined up. Just go to whatever TTT gives you the most cash. I think Southwestern is ideal in your situation.

Graduate debt free.

Work.

Profit.

/thread.

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midwest17
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby midwest17 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:10 am

And you're sure you trust this guarantee?

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jbagelboy
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:11 am

unodostres wrote:Loyola is a shit school. If you have a guaranteed job then go for free. It's all the Same shit whether you're at tjls or hys.


This is a bit of an exaggeration wouldnt you agree? Yes, in principle ranking/quality of school matters less when you arent worried about immediate post- grad employment, but the market is unstable right now. Imagine you get laid off two years in practice? Or you hate the firm and want out? Or your employer bases promotion/salary increases on a scale related in part on competing offers? Or you want to switch out of law into gov't work or academia? Id much rather have the T6 degree in any of those circumstances that a total asswhipe like tjls, all else equal

ltrego
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby ltrego » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:52 am

midwest17 wrote:And you're sure you trust this guarantee?


This. Especially given your statements regarding the firm downsizing. Sounds like a scary "guarantee" to me.

HYSenberg
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby HYSenberg » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:13 am

kcolleen wrote:
HYSenberg wrote:68 is terrible BTW.


I was born and raised in Los Angeles, Loyola is not the death sentence you seem to think it is BTW


http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... =employers

Roughly 10.5% of Loyola grads get good employment outcomes. 50% are underemployed with 27% straight unemployable. 60% do not become lawyers. I mean if you have a job already, the school doesn't matter, but let's not play this game where we pretend TTTs aren't TTTs. Loyola grads are only employable in LA and you're competing with the T14, USC and UCLA plus all the random CA garbage schools. Dat lay prestige won't matter much unless you have solid nepotism ties that will weather an uncertain legal market.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:42 am

jbagelboy wrote:
unodostres wrote:Loyola is a shit school. If you have a guaranteed job then go for free. It's all the Same shit whether you're at tjls or hys.


This is a bit of an exaggeration wouldnt you agree? Yes, in principle ranking/quality of school matters less when you arent worried about immediate post- grad employment, but the market is unstable right now. Imagine you get laid off two years in practice? Or you hate the firm and want out? Or your employer bases promotion/salary increases on a scale related in part on competing offers? Or you want to switch out of law into gov't work or academia? Id much rather have the T6 degree in any of those circumstances that a total asswhipe like tjls, all else equal


Not to mention, you'd much rather be part of the UCLA alumni network than the Loyola network. You probably won't work at your first job forever.

BigZuck
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby BigZuck » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:48 am

BigZuck wrote:Retake

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kcolleen
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby kcolleen » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:19 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
unodostres wrote:Loyola is a shit school. If you have a guaranteed job then go for free. It's all the Same shit whether you're at tjls or hys.


This is a bit of an exaggeration wouldnt you agree? Yes, in principle ranking/quality of school matters less when you arent worried about immediate post- grad employment, but the market is unstable right now. Imagine you get laid off two years in practice? Or you hate the firm and want out? Or your employer bases promotion/salary increases on a scale related in part on competing offers? Or you want to switch out of law into gov't work or academia? Id much rather have the T6 degree in any of those circumstances that a total asswhipe like tjls, all else equal


Not to mention, you'd much rather be part of the UCLA alumni network than the Loyola network. You probably won't work at your first job forever.


This. Like I said in my post, I want to attend UCLA because it's my undergrad institution and they're one of the few schools with a specialization in Philosophy of Law (this is different than a joint JD/PhD program)

It's funny how people are insisting that I have NO chance at UCLA but then insisting I rescind my application in case I get in...uh, wut. If there's no chance then I'll ride it out.

Yes, I have a guaranteed job where I currently work. We are the outhouse counsel for a major motion picture studio. The studio cut their own legal affairs department but we are unaffected (we even hired some of the lawyers who were fired)

Thanks for all the advice, I find out the ED decision in the next 2 weeks, I'll figure my shit out then.

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midwest17
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby midwest17 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:27 pm

kcolleen wrote:This. Like I said in my post, I want to attend UCLA because it's my undergrad institution and they're one of the few schools with a specialization in Philosophy of Law (this is different than a joint JD/PhD program)

It's funny how people are insisting that I have NO chance at UCLA but then insisting I rescind my application in case I get in...uh, wut. If there's no chance then I'll ride it out.

Yes, I have a guaranteed job where I currently work. We are the outhouse counsel for a major motion picture studio. The studio cut their own legal affairs department but we are unaffected (we even hired some of the lawyers who were fired)

Thanks for all the advice, I find out the ED decision in the next 2 weeks, I'll figure my shit out then.


You have no chance at UCLA. But as a philosophy major, you should be aware that when people say "no chance" they actually mean "a very, very small chance." If you agree with the people ITT that paying sticker for UCLA is a bad decision (which you should, since you seem to believe this guaranteed job), then there's no reason not to change your UCLA app to RD.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby ManoftheHour » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:14 pm

kcolleen wrote:It's funny how people are insisting that I have NO chance at UCLA but then insisting I rescind my application in case I get in...uh, wut. If there's no chance then I'll ride it out.


It's not funny because regardless of whether you have a chance at all or not, it's AGAINST your best interest to get accepted. Given your situation, it's in your best interest to take a full ride at Southwestern since you have a guaranteed job.

I don't think you understood my post at all. If you have a job lined up, who gives a fuck about the alumni network? So you're telling me you're going to pay 250k+ for an alumni network?!?! When your job outcome is the same? What do you plan to do with a Philosophy of Law? Is it worth 250k+? Also, specializations don't mean jack. It's a complete flame.

I'm trying to help you. Unlike the others, I'm not questioning your guaranteed job because I figure that you are not some optimistic idiot. I trust that when you say guaranteed, you mean guaranteed.

The point is, if you are planning to work that job, then it makes NO SENSE whatsoever to pay 250k+ when you can go for free. Do you understand how scary interest on that debt is? It starts accumulating the moment you take out the loan, not when you finish school. I told you to rescind your ED because in the very very very unlikely event you get in, you'd be paying STICKER PRICE when you could be going to school for FREE. If you'd end up at the same job anyway, wtf....why would you commit yourself to that much debt (assuming you'd get in)?

Just take a full ride at Southwestern, graduate debt free, go work that job, and live happily ever after without having to worry about paying $1500-$2000 a MONTH in loan repayments.

I'm just trying to help you. You can take my advice or leave it.

Good luck.
Last edited by ManoftheHour on Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Otunga
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby Otunga » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:20 pm

Philosophy of law and moral theory make for interesting topics. But the specialization in such topics is not worth all that debt. Not even close. Don't go to a law school because the philosophy specialization is alluring. If anything, that could serve as a tiebreaker between UCLA and USC (in other words, two extremely comparable schools). I get that you're trying to have your cake and eat it too (get your practical job with law school but still study philosophy with some of the same professors along the way) but just don't let the philosophy thing sway you too much in one direction. If you want to work with some of the same professors that badly, just stay in personal contact with them. Bounce ideas off them. Run a philosophy blog and interact with graduate students in philosophy. Keep a watch on Leiter's blog, which has a lot of philosophy of law content. The point is you can do such things without paying money to do them.

californiauser
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby californiauser » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:30 pm

kcolleen wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
unodostres wrote:Loyola is a shit school. If you have a guaranteed job then go for free. It's all the Same shit whether you're at tjls or hys.


This is a bit of an exaggeration wouldnt you agree? Yes, in principle ranking/quality of school matters less when you arent worried about immediate post- grad employment, but the market is unstable right now. Imagine you get laid off two years in practice? Or you hate the firm and want out? Or your employer bases promotion/salary increases on a scale related in part on competing offers? Or you want to switch out of law into gov't work or academia? Id much rather have the T6 degree in any of those circumstances that a total asswhipe like tjls, all else equal


Not to mention, you'd much rather be part of the UCLA alumni network than the Loyola network. You probably won't work at your first job forever.


This. Like I said in my post, I want to attend UCLA because it's my undergrad institution and they're one of the few schools with a specialization in Philosophy of Law (this is different than a joint JD/PhD program)

It's funny how people are insisting that I have NO chance at UCLA but then insisting I rescind my application in case I get in...uh, wut. If there's no chance then I'll ride it out.

Yes, I have a guaranteed job where I currently work. We are the outhouse counsel for a major motion picture studio. The studio cut their own legal affairs department but we are unaffected (we even hired some of the lawyers who were fired)

Thanks for all the advice, I find out the ED decision in the next 2 weeks, I'll figure my shit out then.


Rescind ED so you can retake in February and use your new score...we aren't telling you to drop the ED because we don't want to compete with you

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:35 pm

ManoftheHour wrote:
kcolleen wrote:It's funny how people are insisting that I have NO chance at UCLA but then insisting I rescind my application in case I get in...uh, wut. If there's no chance then I'll ride it out.

If you have a job lined up, who gives a fuck about the alumni network? So you're telling me you're going to pay 250k+ for an alumni network?!?!


Just to clarify since I brought up the alumni network, I agree with you that UCLA at sticker is dumb. I think OP should sit out a cycle for sure. I think retaking and getting UCLA with a scholarship next year is the way to go. But for sure, if it's UCLA at sticker versus TTTT for free, I would go TTTT for free. If you can get UCLA at a discount, though, I would say it's worth waiting a year, since even if OP has a guaranteed job, he/she may not want to stay at it for his/her entire career and alumni network and school name may come into play somewhat years down the line.

BigZuck
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby BigZuck » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:43 pm

I feel sad that the OP has drunk so much of DAT Kool Aid. UCLA as an institution is not deserving of such slavish devotion, IMO, and the law school especially is not. It's a good school, no doubt, but not 250K OMG GOTTA GET THERE NOW ED APP SUBMIT good.

The second thing that makes me sad is that someone who supposedly works in the law industry is so (willfully?) ignorant of how all this law school stuff works.

The third thing that makes me sad is that someone would be so willfully obtuse and stubborn to ignore pages of great advice.

Anyway, good luck OP, I really do hope it all works out for you.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby ManoftheHour » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:43 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:
kcolleen wrote:It's funny how people are insisting that I have NO chance at UCLA but then insisting I rescind my application in case I get in...uh, wut. If there's no chance then I'll ride it out.

If you have a job lined up, who gives a fuck about the alumni network? So you're telling me you're going to pay 250k+ for an alumni network?!?!


Just to clarify since I brought up the alumni network, I agree with you that UCLA at sticker is dumb. I think OP should sit out a cycle for sure. I think retaking and getting UCLA with a scholarship next year is the way to go. But for sure, if it's UCLA at sticker versus TTTT for free, I would go TTTT for free. If you can get UCLA at a discount, though, I would say it's worth waiting a year, since even if OP has a guaranteed job, he/she may not want to stay at it for his/her entire career and alumni network and school name may come into play somewhat years down the line.


Yes. I know that's what people were getting at, but I don't think OP understood it that way. I know everyone else here agrees that all else equal, guaranteed job or not, HYS > TJSL. But if it's guaranteed job and going sticker at UCLA or TTTT for free, it's TTTT for free by a long shot. I definitely agree with you and the others that OP should retake for $$$ at a better school in case OP wants to do something else with her life later on though.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby ManoftheHour » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:45 pm

BigZuck wrote:I feel sad that the OP has drunk so much of DAT Kool Aid. UCLA as an institution is not deserving of such slavish devotion, IMO, and the law school especially is not. It's a good school, no doubt, but not 250K OMG GOTTA GET THERE NOW ED APP SUBMIT good.

The second thing that makes me sad is that someone who supposedly works in the law industry is so (willfully?) ignorant of how all this law school stuff works.

The third thing that makes me sad is that someone would be so willfully obtuse and stubborn to ignore pages of great advice.

Anyway, good luck OP, I really do hope it all works out for you.


Maybe OP is from a wealthy family and her parents really want her to go to UCLA for that preftige. It happens.

If that's the case, YOLO.

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jbagelboy
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Re: 159 / 3.6 / 4.0 my chances in Los Angeles?

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:45 pm

Otunga wrote:Philosophy of law and moral theory make for interesting topics. But the specialization in such topics is not worth all that debt. Not even close. Don't go to a law school because the philosophy specialization is alluring. If anything, that could serve as a tiebreaker between UCLA and USC (in other words, two extremely comparable schools). I get that you're trying to have your cake and eat it too (get your practical job with law school but still study philosophy with some of the same professors along the way) but just don't let the philosophy thing sway you too much in one direction. If you want to work with some of the same professors that badly, just stay in personal contact with them. Bounce ideas off them. Run a philosophy blog and interact with graduate students in philosophy. Keep a watch on Leiter's blog, which has a lot of philosophy of law content. The point is you can do such things without paying money to do them.


Just to shore up this point here, whether a school has a concentration on such an encompassing topic like "philosophy of law" is basically meaningless. It's typically more an advertising bit and an excuse for equity-heavy faculty law review articles than a true unique educational opportunity. Now, if there is a SPECIFIC professor who you really want to do research with, at maybe 6 or 7 schools that could factor into your decision wrt future in legal academia, but it won't make a significant difference elsewhere. Much of your curriculum will impute ethical-philosophical choices and reasoning regardless; in fact, two of my 1L profs were PhD's in philosophy and routinely discussed how the law responds to and impacts questions of moral philosophy - Kantian systems vs. Aristotelian, market incentives/efficiency vs. fairness, ect. The subjects where such doctrinal overlap is interesting and impactful - due process, caveat emptor, unconscionably, good samaritan - already lend themselves to a "philosophical" lens. It's not like you need to go to UChicago to be exposed to law and economics either.

If you really want a philosophy degree, apply to PhD programs in philosophy. Then you can go for free!




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