Changes at GEORGETOWN with 166 LSAT and 4.0 GPA

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abovethelaw
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Changes at GEORGETOWN with 166 LSAT and 4.0 GPA

Postby abovethelaw » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:57 pm

I want to go to GULC more than anything...

I am trying to decide whether or not to apply early decision. The only thing that would stop me is the potential for scholarship money if I did NOT apply ED. So, I basically have two questions...

What are my chances at Georgetown Law with a 166 and a 4.0 if I apply early decision?

Do I have any chance for scholarships at Georgetown Law if I do NOT apply early decision?

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hephaestus
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Re: Changes at GEORGETOWN with 166 LSAT and 4.0 GPA

Postby hephaestus » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:02 pm

1. Why is GULC your top choice? It is one of the stingiest T14 schools while simultaneously having less big law placement than its peers.
2. Why not retake? Three more points and you are looking at a half ride or more from the lower T14. You should not be applying at all with your current numbers.
3. Absolutely do not apply ED with your current numbers if you do not retake. You stand to get significant money at Cornell, and a possibility at GULC. There is no reason to pay 200k+ for GULC in your situation.

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NYC2012
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Re: Changes at GEORGETOWN with 166 LSAT and 4.0 GPA

Postby NYC2012 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:54 pm

I agree with the poster above. But to answer your question, I think you have a very good shot. My non-URM friend just got in with a 166 and 3.8 GPA - I know that's just an anecdote, but it's definitely doable.

Ti Malice
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Re: Changes at GEORGETOWN with 166 LSAT and 4.0 GPA

Postby Ti Malice » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:02 pm

Jesus. Don't go to GeorgeTTTown if you get into any other T14, unless there's a large cost difference weighing in GULC's favor (which there won't be). As is, you have a shot at a number of schools that will give you significantly better employment prospects, several of which would likely cost you less than GULC:

Image

But you should really retake. A few more points and you're looking at YHS.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Changes at GEORGETOWN with 166 LSAT and 4.0 GPA

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:25 pm

Yea you're in at GULC. Nonetheless, I recommend retaking the LSAT, or at least broadening your scope - don't ED.

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EtherOne
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Re: Changes at GEORGETOWN with 166 LSAT and 4.0 GPA

Postby EtherOne » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:51 pm

Apply to all, or most, of the T-14. Don't ED GT.

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midnight_circus
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Re: Changes at GEORGETOWN with 166 LSAT and 4.0 GPA

Postby midnight_circus » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:00 am

OP, you see that you have good odds. But why is Georgetown your top choice? I'm not going to advise you to retake if you can't leave the DC area/have some other great reason for wanting Georgetown. But if it's just a whim you have, you may want to retake in December and aim higher, since (as you have probably discovered by reading other GULC threads) their employment prospects are worse than the rest of the t14. With your perfect gpa, you can only improve. :)

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Nova
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Re: Changes at GEORGETOWN with 166 LSAT and 4.0 GPA

Postby Nova » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:04 am

Never ED GULC. The job prospects are not worth sticker

You'll get in RD anyway

Rt887
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Re: Changes at GEORGETOWN with 166 LSAT and 4.0 GPA

Postby Rt887 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:20 am

I have the exact same numbers as you and I got into GULC with no interview a couple weeks after I applied. I also got into three other T-14 thus far. I am of course basing this purely on my own personal experience and my softs may have been a big factor, but I would take the default "retake" response with a grain of salt- especially with medians dropping and given that you would have to wait until February.
If you submit a well-put application you stand a good chance of RD admission at GULC, and even at better schools.

dissonance1848
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Re: Changes at GEORGETOWN with 166 LSAT and 4.0 GPA

Postby dissonance1848 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:43 am

OP, listen carefully; RETAKE. NOW.

Do not even consider applying to Georgetown.

You are wasting your GPA, which many here would literally kill for or die for.

After you retake, then you can apply. Remember to shoot for 173+ so you can put HYS into play.

Ti Malice
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Re: Changes at GEORGETOWN with 166 LSAT and 4.0 GPA

Postby Ti Malice » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:11 am

Rt887 wrote:but I would take the default "retake" response with a grain of salt- especially with medians dropping and given that you would have to wait until February.
If you submit a well-put application you stand a good chance of RD admission at GULC, and even at better schools.


This is truly terrible advice. "Retake" is not just about admissions chances -- though that's certainly part of it, as OP is five points away from a likely Harvard acceptance. We also advise people to retake so they won't have to graduate with nearly $300K of nondischargeable debt, which is where a T14 at sticker will leave you at the start of repayment. These reasons are easily worth the extra year's wait.

Rt887
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Re: Changes at GEORGETOWN with 166 LSAT and 4.0 GPA

Postby Rt887 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:50 pm

First of all, who is to say that OP will not get a scholarship with the current stats? There are factors other than numbers. And please do not throw those stupid LSN charts around, a small sample size of students from a few cycles ago isn't really going to tell me anything worthwhile about this particular cycle.
Second, you forget that there are both tangible and intangible costs associated with putting law school off for a year-i.e not doing anything with your life or in terms of lost salary- that offset much, or at least some of the debt. Finally, a 166 is the 93-4 percentile, "just another five points" would be the 99th percentile, hence it is not very likely to happen. You are basically advising for someone to put their lives off for a year based on something that in reality has a slim chance of happening. A 2-3 point improvement is much more likely, but that is certainly not worth delaying law school for. Its very easy to just say "retake" automatically when its somebody else's life....

That said, retaking and waiting a year might be a great choice for OP, but it is one that is contingent on personal circumstances that we have no idea about. "Retake," should not just be the default option for everyone. It should be taken with a grain of salt when uttered mechanically from someone who knows almost nothing about you and is just as clueless about the process as you.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Changes at GEORGETOWN with 166 LSAT and 4.0 GPA

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:45 pm

Rt887 wrote:First of all, who is to say that OP will not get a scholarship with the current stats? There are factors other than numbers. And please do not throw those stupid LSN charts around, a small sample size of students from a few cycles ago isn't really going to tell me anything worthwhile about this particular cycle.
Second, you forget that there are both tangible and intangible costs associated with putting law school off for a year-i.e not doing anything with your life or in terms of lost salary- that offset much, or at least some of the debt. Finally, a 166 is the 93-4 percentile, "just another five points" would be the 99th percentile, hence it is not very likely to happen. You are basically advising for someone to put their lives off for a year based on something that in reality has a slim chance of happening. A 2-3 point improvement is much more likely, but that is certainly not worth delaying law school for. Its very easy to just say "retake" automatically when its somebody else's life....

That said, retaking and waiting a year might be a great choice for OP, but it is one that is contingent on personal circumstances that we have no idea about. "Retake," should not just be the default option for everyone. It should be taken with a grain of salt when uttered mechanically from someone who knows almost nothing about you and is just as clueless about the process as you.


First, scholarships are highly numbers-driven, even moreso than admissions. Georgetown is somewhat more idiosyncratic with their scholarship process and they will privilege those students who they see as truly committed to attending, but only to the extent that their numbers match the schools needs. Most Gtown scholarships are achieved through negotiation with peer schools (or what Cornblatt considers to be peers, haha): OP would most likely have to secure money at Cornell, Northwestern, or Duke in order to leverage. To say "there are factors other than numbers" is somewhat of an overstatement. There are significant flaws with self-reported data, sure, but LSN tends to be rather on-point in high data volume ranges.

Second, how do you see landing in the 92nd percentile as precluding progress to the 99th? It's precisely because OP has demonstrated they can score over 90th percentile that high 160's or 170 is an achievable score. Many of us have done it: I went from mid 160's to 172. If OP got a 145 and a 147, I'd say they will probably top out at 160ish. We would never tell that person to retake for 170+, because statistically it's basically impossible. This isn't OP's circumstance. Moreover, with a 4.0 GPA, an applicant has more to gain from a few added pts on the LSAT than someone with lower grades.

And third, yes, there are personal factors involved here. However, the true "I need to go to law school this year" people are few and far between when compared to those who just haven't thought it out enough, or those who are reluctant to accept the legal market as it is and that their academic life plan since junior yr of high school just isn't going to cut it. OP may have a decent job; also, work experience prior to coming to law school adjusts ROI in more layered ways since it can be an advantageous investment for interviews and resume-building at OCI. To say people who aren't going to law school immediately "aren't doing anything with their life" is, again, a very sheltered and erroneous view. Many college grads do incredible things with their lives prior to attending law school. The impressive diversity of interests and experiences in my class alone is a testament to this.

Ti Malice
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Re: Changes at GEORGETOWN with 166 LSAT and 4.0 GPA

Postby Ti Malice » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:22 pm

Rt887 wrote:First of all, who is to say that OP will not get a scholarship with the current stats? There are factors other than numbers. And please do not throw those stupid LSN charts around, a small sample size of students from a few cycles ago isn't really going to tell me anything worthwhile about this particular cycle.
Second, you forget that there are both tangible and intangible costs associated with putting law school off for a year-i.e not doing anything with your life or in terms of lost salary- that offset much, or at least some of the debt. Finally, a 166 is the 93-4 percentile, "just another five points" would be the 99th percentile, hence it is not very likely to happen. You are basically advising for someone to put their lives off for a year based on something that in reality has a slim chance of happening. A 2-3 point improvement is much more likely, but that is certainly not worth delaying law school for. Its very easy to just say "retake" automatically when its somebody else's life....

That said, retaking and waiting a year might be a great choice for OP, but it is one that is contingent on personal circumstances that we have no idea about. "Retake," should not just be the default option for everyone. It should be taken with a grain of salt when uttered mechanically from someone who knows almost nothing about you and is just as clueless about the process as you.


I think jbagelboy said everything that needs to be said about this weak justification for your terrible advice.

As for my being "clueless" about the process, check my profile, dipshit.

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DrStudMuffin
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Re: Changes at GEORGETOWN with 166 LSAT and 4.0 GPA

Postby DrStudMuffin » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:28 pm

Rt887 wrote:First of all, who is to say that OP will not get a scholarship with the current stats? There are factors other than numbers. And please do not throw those stupid LSN charts around, a small sample size of students from a few cycles ago isn't really going to tell me anything worthwhile about this particular cycle.
Second, you forget that there are both tangible and intangible costs associated with putting law school off for a year-i.e not doing anything with your life or in terms of lost salary- that offset much, or at least some of the debt. Finally, a 166 is the 93-4 percentile, "just another five points" would be the 99th percentile, hence it is not very likely to happen. You are basically advising for someone to put their lives off for a year based on something that in reality has a slim chance of happening. A 2-3 point improvement is much more likely, but that is certainly not worth delaying law school for. Its very easy to just say "retake" automatically when its somebody else's life....

That said, retaking and waiting a year might be a great choice for OP, but it is one that is contingent on personal circumstances that we have no idea about. "Retake," should not just be the default option for everyone. It should be taken with a grain of salt when uttered mechanically from someone who knows almost nothing about you and is just as clueless about the process as you.


Just echoing what bagel and Malice said, this is really bad advice and should be ignored.

california2013
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Re: Changes at GEORGETOWN with 166 LSAT and 4.0 GPA

Postby california2013 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:45 pm

DrStudMuffin wrote:
Rt887 wrote:First of all, who is to say that OP will not get a scholarship with the current stats? There are factors other than numbers. And please do not throw those stupid LSN charts around, a small sample size of students from a few cycles ago isn't really going to tell me anything worthwhile about this particular cycle.
Second, you forget that there are both tangible and intangible costs associated with putting law school off for a year-i.e not doing anything with your life or in terms of lost salary- that offset much, or at least some of the debt. Finally, a 166 is the 93-4 percentile, "just another five points" would be the 99th percentile, hence it is not very likely to happen. You are basically advising for someone to put their lives off for a year based on something that in reality has a slim chance of happening. A 2-3 point improvement is much more likely, but that is certainly not worth delaying law school for. Its very easy to just say "retake" automatically when its somebody else's life....

That said, retaking and waiting a year might be a great choice for OP, but it is one that is contingent on personal circumstances that we have no idea about. "Retake," should not just be the default option for everyone. It should be taken with a grain of salt when uttered mechanically from someone who knows almost nothing about you and is just as clueless about the process as you.


Just echoing what bagel and Malice said, this is really bad advice and should be ignored.


+ 1. Rt887 is clueless.




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