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wtrc
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Re: 4.04 GPA/ 149 LSAT

Postby wtrc » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:03 pm

OP, If you do continue on this path, you absolutely need to take off at least a year and study for this test. Study yourself if need be, but find a system that works for you. Drill until you can't drill anymore. Take sections and then review- and don't move on until you understand why every single credited response is right, and why every single incorrect response is wrong. It will be really tough and it will take thousands of hours, but it probably can be done.

I do agree with the other posters, though. Law school might not be the right option for you. And this isn't a bad thing- your other options are so much better than most people out of college.

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PepperJack
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Re: 4.04 GPA/ 149 LSAT

Postby PepperJack » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:06 pm

hcrimson2014 wrote:
RedShift wrote:I will never understand how people can have perfect or near-perfect GPAs from US universities and then bomb the LSAT.


There are more than 2000 accredited US degree granting institutions and I know some with median GPA at the high 3.9's. Edit, I did not mean that this is OP's case, I know some intelligent people that just doesn't fit with LSAT.

It depends on how you define intelligence. In animals, it's normally measured by how good the individual is at using their resources and abilities to produce the best survival outcome. The type of individual who scores a 175 will also likely never attend a TTT even if that were their only option because they can internalize objective data. I'd venture to say the 4.0 150 who attends these institutions is evidence there's little correlation between UGPA and intelligence.

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toshiroh
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Re: 4.04 GPA/ 149 LSAT

Postby toshiroh » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:06 pm

Retake?

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Cicero76
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Re: 4.04 GPA/ 149 LSAT

Postby Cicero76 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:07 pm

pianochickahh wrote:
ImNoScar wrote:You will not get into anywhere worth going. Maybe you should try another course (like Blue Print). There must be some systemic issue with the way you take the LSAT. The test is learnable, and your mistakes are fixable. You just need to figure out where it is going wrong.


:/ I took a weekend Powerscore class. I can't afford anymore of these classes. Especially since I keep getting these 140s scores. I almost feel like people are lying. There is no way that everyone is getting 165+'s. That is 90th percentile! That's ridiculous :(


Something like 57,000 people take the LSAT each year. 10% of that would be 5,000 people. This board does not get 5,000 new members every year. It's not at all ridiculous for the few hundred posters on TOP-law-schools.com to be almost entirely composed of 160+ scorers. High scorers are the type of person more likely to do research on schools that leads them here.

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reasonable_man
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Re: 4.04 GPA/ 149 LSAT

Postby reasonable_man » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:50 pm

Def don't retake the LSAT. Apply with that score.

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wtrc
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Re: 4.04 GPA/ 149 LSAT

Postby wtrc » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:05 am

reasonable_man wrote:Def don't retake the LSAT. Apply with that score.


Don't trust this guy. I hear he's a lawyer.

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elterrible78
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Re: 4.04 GPA/ 149 LSAT

Postby elterrible78 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:18 am

Cicero76 wrote:
pianochickahh wrote:
ImNoScar wrote:You will not get into anywhere worth going. Maybe you should try another course (like Blue Print). There must be some systemic issue with the way you take the LSAT. The test is learnable, and your mistakes are fixable. You just need to figure out where it is going wrong.


:/ I took a weekend Powerscore class. I can't afford anymore of these classes. Especially since I keep getting these 140s scores. I almost feel like people are lying. There is no way that everyone is getting 165+'s. That is 90th percentile! That's ridiculous :(


Something like 57,000 people take the LSAT each year. 10% of that would be 5,000 people. This board does not get 5,000 new members every year. It's not at all ridiculous for the few hundred posters on TOP-law-schools.com to be almost entirely composed of 160+ scorers. High scorers are the type of person more likely to do research on schools that leads them here.


If you look at the decline in law school applications over the past few years, you see that as you move down the LSAT scale, the % decrease in applicants also decreases, and at the low end, there has actually been an INCREASE in applicants. I think that fits quite nicely with the bolded.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: 4.04 GPA/ 149 LSAT

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:29 am

OP, please don't apply this cycle. The LSAT matters more than your entire undergraduate record, really. Giving it a weekend's worth of study is insane. You're clearly not dumb, but you're throwing away an enviable undergraduate record because you're impatient and afraid of the test.

You need to accept that you can't just phone in your LSAT. It is a HUGE part of your future if you go to law school, and you need to take it seriously.

Even if you still decide to go to Mason, it's the difference between going for sticker (which would be absolutely balls out stupid) or going for free, which would be an okay option.

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Black_Swan
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Re: 4.04 GPA/ 149 LSAT

Postby Black_Swan » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:44 pm

RedShift wrote:I will never understand how people can have perfect or near-perfect GPAs from US universities and then bomb the LSAT.


Reading under time constraints in a foreign language is a different game...

OP you need more time and practice to raise your score!

If you took Testmasters, use the material again. DRILL. DRILL. DRILL. Make a copy of all games and retake them over and over. REVIEW your LR and RC answers using Manhattan Free Online resources. Sign up for free 7Sage Games Explanations. There are also some old Kaplan LR and RC explanations you can download. Any explanations that would restate/summarize the argument in an easier language is helpful. You need to gain a better feel for the test and a better understanding of the flaws and reasoning structures used. The more you review, the easier it will get to see patterns. THAT would help you get better at this test, even in situations where the language/time constraints would otherwise leave you clueless. You would get the right answer even without having a complete understanding of all parts of the argument.

I know how you are feeling. I scored my highest score (173) not long ago. That was almost 40 points higher than my diagnostic.

It will take time but You can do it! Dont waste your GPA!!!

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jbagelboy
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Re: 4.04 GPA/ 149 LSAT

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:40 am

Black_Swan wrote:I know how you are feeling. I scored my highest score (173) not long ago. That was almost 40 points higher than my diagnostic.


Wow. That's impressive. Almost unheard of.

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thewaves
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Re: 4.04 GPA/ 149 LSAT

Postby thewaves » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:51 am

jbagelboy wrote:I don't think law school is right for you. There are other degrees that could give you a pathway into what people think the "law" is - policy, government agencies, financial institutions and consulting firms, patent offices, legislation, ect. With those grades from GWU you could work for the state department, at Bain making $75K, with a think tank, at the fed reserve (if you have an econ/math background), do TFA, go to HKS for a policy masters, work at Deutschbank in Hong Kong, get a Ph.D in legal philosophy from Yale and become a professor... Why law school? Do you really, really want to be an attorney?

Many highly intelligent people with college GPA's lower than 3.6 are locked out of most prestigious careers, so they go into law because it affords them a "second chance" or a "clean slate" to that upper echelon (you can get into nearly all law schools with a 3.6, surprisingly, but basically none with a 150 LSAT). You don't need this. You aren't locked out, employers will love your credentials, your multiple languages, everything you've pointed to as strong softs. They are highly regarded in most professions, but have little significance in law school admissions. How can you know that you need law school?

It would be a tremendously erroneous choice from an ROI perspective for you to attend any law school you might get into. You have zero economic incentive to do so, and I'm hard pressed to see why you'd have an emotional or cognitive incentive here either. You should outline for yourself exactly what you hope to gain from law school, and do some basic ROI computations using % employed FT JD-req at schools with 150-155 medians, 3 yrs lost income, and your current earning potential in almost any other career track. I think you'll find an extremely narrow selection of circumstances in which getting a JD would truly benefit YOU, and none with your current options.


I agree with everything Jbagelboy said. There are many doors open to you at this point. Don't close them off by going to law school at this point. The LSAT is pretty much the *only* barrier point to entry for law school. If you can't score above a 160+ with dedicated practice, it's not worth attending law school from an ROI perspective. Find a job in a field that interests you, explore your options, and if you really want to go to law school, study for the LSAT down the road. You may find yourself interested in business and head toward the MBA route.

Just because you were good at school in undergrad doesn't mean you need more school.

timbs4339
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Re: 4.04 GPA/ 149 LSAT

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:37 pm

jbagelboy wrote:I don't think law school is right for you. There are other degrees that could give you a pathway into what people think the "law" is - policy, government agencies, financial institutions and consulting firms, patent offices, legislation, ect. With those grades from GWU you could work for the state department, at Bain making $75K, with a think tank, at the fed reserve (if you have an econ/math background), do TFA, go to HKS for a policy masters, work at Deutschbank in Hong Kong, get a Ph.D in legal philosophy from Yale and become a professor... Why law school? Do you really, really want to be an attorney?

Many highly intelligent people with college GPA's lower than 3.6 are locked out of most prestigious careers, so they go into law because it affords them a "second chance" or a "clean slate" to that upper echelon (you can get into nearly all law schools with a 3.6, surprisingly, but basically none with a 150 LSAT). You don't need this. You aren't locked out, employers will love your credentials, your multiple languages, everything you've pointed to as strong softs. They are highly regarded in most professions, but have little significance in law school admissions. How can you know that you need law school?

It would be a tremendously erroneous choice from an ROI perspective for you to attend any law school you might get into. You have zero economic incentive to do so, and I'm hard pressed to see why you'd have an emotional or cognitive incentive here either. You should outline for yourself exactly what you hope to gain from law school, and do some basic ROI computations using % employed FT JD-req at schools with 150-155 medians, 3 yrs lost income, and your current earning potential in almost any other career track. I think you'll find an extremely narrow selection of circumstances in which getting a JD would truly benefit YOU, and none with your current options.



This. That. This again.

Honestly, I cannot fathom how someone can get a 4.0+ and not take the LSAT seriously just from an effort perspective. You clearly have the work ethic to follow the day-in-day-out process of doing PTs, going over questions, and doing more PTs. You need to spend 6 months, a year, 1.5 years, whatever it takes to get that score into an acceptable range. In the meantime, get a job. It sounds like you're the rare person who might actually be able to score a white-collar career right from college.

I cannot understate this: with your current scores you might just be taking a seemingly good life and throwing it all away to go 250K in debt at a school with abysmal job prospects.




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