Yet another splitter

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whatsamazinn
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Yet another splitter

Postby whatsamazinn » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:40 am

x
Last edited by whatsamazinn on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cotiger
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby cotiger » Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:57 am

whatsamazinn wrote:All,
I attend a "public ivy", am finishing my studies with a 3.1 GPA as a double major in mathematics and Classics, and have scored 179 on my LSATs. Could someone with experience please advise where I may gain admission?
Also of note I have some work experience at well-regarded investment banks and a hedge fund. Hopefully a couple good recommendations from highly regarded Michigan professors, as well.
Double legacy at a top-3 law school. Father highly regarded lawyer.
Thanks.
A


Yayyy "public ivy" again! :roll: (Hmm, Michigan perhaps? So sneaky.)

You're not getting into YHS, even with a double legacy.

Columbia (probably), NYU, and Northwestern (and Georgetown) will take you. Everyone else is running away from that GPA.

whatsamazinn
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby whatsamazinn » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:03 am

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cotiger
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby cotiger » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:15 am

Go to mylsn.info. Put in broad ranges (say, 3-3.25 GPA and 173-180 LSAT). Check 2012-2013. Click on the arrows at the right side under "more info." This will list the individual applicants. Compare and contrast.

Your softs are not special and will not get you in any place that I didn't mention.

No one here has any additional info for you outside of that website I listed.

whatsamazinn
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby whatsamazinn » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:21 am

x
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cotiger
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby cotiger » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:53 am

Your LSAT is not going to affect your transfer chances at all. Schools only care about LSAT for how it affects USNews (it doesn't as a transfer), and as a predictor of grades in law school (which you'll already have real grades to look at). Current softs are not going to matter either. Law schools (especially YHS) already care very, very little about "legacies," and I would imagine it's even less meaningful at the transfer stage.

Transfer chances are going to be determined by 1L grades and professor recs. It is not something to be banking on. I'm assuming you want to go to YHS. If you're doing well enough at Columbia or NYU to transfer, I'm not sure I see the point. Even at Northwestern, the combination of excellent grades and good WE is going to put you in a very nice position. Just because your mom and dad went to HLS doesn't mean that you need to as well.

whatsamazinn
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby whatsamazinn » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:02 am

x
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cotiger
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby cotiger » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:04 am

WE means work experience.

While your softs won't help you get into a law school that doesn't accept GPAs that low, softs (defined as personal statement, letters of rec, work experience) do help decide at the margin. I don't know the strength of your softs. Working in IB/hedge funds sounds good, but you're K-JD (no time off between undergrad and law school), so those were likely internships.

If Columbia accepts ~33% of the applicants with your numbers, your softs have to be in the top third of applicants with similar numbers.

Columbia is a possibility, NYU slightly more so. You will get into Northwestern, though they will likely offer you deferred admission to take a year off and get some real WE.

You got a B average in your last academic endeavor--top schools are rightfully concerned about how you will fare in your next academic endeavor. Northwestern is a good outcome.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:16 am

If your family is going to be footing the bill an ED to NYU isn't a bad idea.

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cotiger
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby cotiger » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:23 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:If your family is going to be footing the bill an ED to NYU isn't a bad idea.


True. But don't expect it to help too much: http://admissionsbythenumbers.blogspot. ... op-14.html

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hephaestus
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby hephaestus » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:24 am

I would ED to Columbia or NYU, though NYU seems like the safer choice. HYS is definitely out, as many mentioned.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:26 am

cotiger wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:If your family is going to be footing the bill an ED to NYU isn't a bad idea.


True. But don't expect it to help too much: http://admissionsbythenumbers.blogspot. ... op-14.html

It won't work miracles but might be the difference between WL and admit. These days NYU admits just about everyone anyway and will continue to do so if they want to maintain their gigantic class.

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cotiger
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby cotiger » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:40 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:It won't work miracles but might be the difference between WL and admit. These days NYU admits just about everyone anyway and will continue to do so if they want to maintain their gigantic class.


Yeah, agreed. At the worst, it can't hurt. It's not like the OP would have other options to choose from.

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06102016
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby 06102016 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:51 am

..

whatsamazinn
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby whatsamazinn » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:47 pm

x
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midwest17
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby midwest17 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:16 pm

whatsamazinn wrote:I appreciate everyone's advice. Soon I will start a thread about transitioning from the legal field to the securities business, but that's a different day, many days hence.

To summarize, I gather from what everyone says that I should blanket the top 25 law schools with applications and ED Columbia, which is a school I'd very much like to attend. If not there, then my chances are slightly better at NYU, and much better perhaps at places like Northwestern, UVA, Georgetown and down. But of course, it will have to play itself out.


I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "the securities business," but if you don't want to be a lawyer, don't go to law school.

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McGruff
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby McGruff » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:02 pm

whatsamazinn wrote:I appreciate everyone's advice. Soon I will start a thread about transitioning from the legal field to the securities business, but that's a different day, many days hence.

To summarize, I gather from what everyone says that I should blanket the top 25 law schools with applications and ED Columbia, which is a school I'd very much like to attend. If not there, then my chances are slightly better at NYU, and much better perhaps at places like Northwestern, UVA, Georgetown and down. But of course, it will have to play itself out.


"Top 25"(IUB troll?) is not what you want to look at. If there's a strong regional you're interested in, a scholarship there might be worth it, otherwise, don't give yourself any temptation to make a horrible decision.

That said, even a good school only makes sense if you want to be a lawyer. Saying you want to go to law school to eventually transition "from the legal field to the securities business" makes about as much sense as saying you want to go to medical school to transition from the medical world to the legal field, and you should seriously consider the very real possibility that going to law school will mean that you no longer have the option of not being a lawyer.

whatsamazinn
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby whatsamazinn » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:19 pm

x
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cotiger
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby cotiger » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:42 pm

McGruff wrote:
whatsamazinn wrote:I appreciate everyone's advice. Soon I will start a thread about transitioning from the legal field to the securities business, but that's a different day, many days hence.

To summarize, I gather from what everyone says that I should blanket the top 25 law schools with applications and ED Columbia, which is a school I'd very much like to attend. If not there, then my chances are slightly better at NYU, and much better perhaps at places like Northwestern, UVA, Georgetown and down. But of course, it will have to play itself out.


"Top 25"(IUB troll?) is not what you want to look at. If there's a strong regional you're interested in, a scholarship there might be worth it, otherwise, don't give yourself any temptation to make a horrible decision.

That said, even a good school only makes sense if you want to be a lawyer. Saying you want to go to law school to eventually transition "from the legal field to the securities business" makes about as much sense as saying you want to go to medical school to transition from the medical world to the legal field, and you should seriously consider the very real possibility that going to law school will mean that you no longer have the option of not being a lawyer.


What McGruff said.

Also, people aren't suggesting ED Columbia. 3.5/4 agree to ED NYU. I wouldn't be too cocky about attending either of those schools, ED or not. You're borderline, so you need to make sure that your PS doesn't make you sound arrogant (which you're coming across as ITT) if you want to get in. If your parents are paying for law school, don't even bother applying outside the T14. You will get into Northwestern, and that will be a much better option than anything outside of the T14.

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McGruff
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby McGruff » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:25 pm

whatsamazinn wrote:McGruff, I'm inferring from your post that top 25 doesn't cut it for my ambition and that T14 only will do. I am willing to accept this but remain concerned that I'm not a lock at T14. Of course, no one can help me with this and only time will tell.

I remain very open to the legal field. "Securities," as in money management, has interested me for a long time and I don't want to rule it out. However, as I have learned from my father, who is an M&A lawyer, corporate finance and corporate law have a tendency of converging at the upper echelons.

Person A:"I'm planning on going to medical school."
Person B:"Awesome!" *rhetorically* "You gonna be a doctor?"
Person A: *in all seriousness* "I remain very open to the possibility."


Quick question before anyone else puts more time into responding: do you have an official LSAT score or does "179 on my LSATs" mean practice tests?

whatsamazinn
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby whatsamazinn » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:46 pm

x
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cotiger
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby cotiger » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:57 pm

whatsamazinn wrote:It's official, I just took it. I don't mean to come off as arrogant, at all. I am genuinely appreciative of the advice I've received here and talked about ED'ing to Columbia because I thought that, if my chances were better at NYU in general, that might be a way to boost my chances further of getting into one of the two.


The thing is, even with a (perhaps non-existent) boost for ED, it's still relatively likely that you're dinged at both schools. Given that the difference between CCN and Northwestern is much greater than the difference between CLS and NYU, the smarter play is to give that boost to the one you're more likely to get: NYU.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:06 pm

3.1 is below the generally accepted GPA floor for Columbia, and ED provides an insignificant boost. I don't see the rationale for applying ED there. I think the 33% figure someone quoted is a poor representation of actual chances when grades dip below 3.3.

ED Penn or ED NYU is credited.

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McGruff
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby McGruff » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:28 pm

Alright then. Here's what we know:
you = 3.1/179 (everyone else has softs too and legacy is neat but largely irrelevant, so this is what matters most)

I don't like calling almost anyone a lock because sometimes cycles are unpredictable, but you certainly have T14 numbers thanks to the LSAT (congrats btw), just don't be more of a snob than you can afford to when it comes to giving Northwestern the stink eye prior to getting accepted elsewhere. If money is no object, then go ahead and ED somewhere*. No matter what, you need to put together a solid app, blanket the T14 (minus HYS), and see what happens. This guy ED'd NYU with a 3.18/178, was rejected, but ultimately got into Columbia off the waitlist. If money is at all an object (and it probably should be), then don't ED anywhere, just go to the best combination of jobs/$$$.

*Just because data > intuition, I'm going to post this picture here. It's from the blog that cotiger linked earlier.

Image

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jordan15
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Re: Yet another splitter

Postby jordan15 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:40 pm

FWIW, someone got accepted to Yale a few cycles ago with a 158 due to his legacy status. I think it's worth it to apply to your HYS school, especially if it's H.

I think you'd be much more competitive if you finished your senior year, brought your GPA up (if money is no object, can't you just postpone graduation?) and had at least a year of legit WE that you could probably easily get through your parents. I don't think a 3.3 is out of the question after a year of easy As and a 3.4 might be possible. You would have a lot more options then.

Otherwise, enjoy Northwestern.




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