3.71/167 - Should I apply now or wait after re-take?

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akg144
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3.71/167 - Should I apply now or wait after re-take?

Postby akg144 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:38 pm

I just signed up for a re-take in December. I've taken every LSAT prep-test 1-70 most of them (at least 40+) multiple times so there's not too much more I can study (I did PT 1-69 and June 2007 in 74 days time). My average was a 173.2 but that was with having done of them a 2nd time so it's slightly inflated.

Anyways regardless I've done LSN and Law School Numbers ran all the numbers etc. and am pretty sure that I'm like 100% in at Cornell and pretty sure in at Vandy and Georgetown as well - with virtually no chance of scholarships - looking at sticker price with everything 11-15 best case scenario. Duke and Northwestern maybe rejected most likely waitlisted with a 50-50 shot to come off the wait-list like 3 days before orientation starts in late August. All that being said -- should I apply to all my regular schools now #11 Duke -#18 USC now (and ED here @ my #1 choice though i'm below both medians 3.76 and 170) or wait until I get my score back in December?

My softs are decent 3.87 GPA in Grad School, super solid LORs, and have taken classes at t-14 Law school and aced em while here at school.

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hephaestus
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Re: 3.71/167 - Should I apply now or wait after re-take?

Postby hephaestus » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:23 am

It doesn't matter much because schools tend to hold the review of your file until the new LSAT score comes in.

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jbagelboy
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Re: 3.71/167 - Should I apply now or wait after re-take?

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:43 am

What school is posting 3.76/170 medians this cycle? I believe those were NU's last year. NYU is close at 3.73 but not quite. Only other schools with a 170 median now are Penn, UChi, and possibly Stanford, all with substantially higher GPA medians. I think you're looking at old data.

akg144
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:56 am

Re: 3.71/167 - Should I apply now or wait after re-take?

Postby akg144 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:59 am

Thanks. 3 quick questions Jbagel - any advise on studying for the re-take (i've seen every LSAC question at least once and vast majority multiple times - is private tutoring my only real option?)

Should I apply to Duke and Northwestern before I get my December scores back or just apply to Vandy, Georgetown and Cornell until then - or does it not matter because they will just hold my file?

Lastly, jbagel would you matriculate to any school 11-15 at sticker price? Why or why not?

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jbagelboy
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Re: 3.71/167 - Should I apply now or wait after re-take?

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:39 pm

akg144 wrote:Thanks. 3 quick questions Jbagel - any advise on studying for the re-take (i've seen every LSAC question at least once and vast majority multiple times - is private tutoring my only real option?)

Should I apply to Duke and Northwestern before I get my December scores back or just apply to Vandy, Georgetown and Cornell until then - or does it not matter because they will just hold my file?

Lastly, jbagel would you matriculate to any school 11-15 at sticker price? Why or why not?


Hey,

So this is more of a PM scenario, but I'll just lay it out here so others can add what they please.

There are definitely better people to ask about the LSAT on this board then myself. I took 25-30 timed PTs, took a night class with Powerscore & went through the LG bible. I honestly think that's enough to get 170+ (or even 172+) if you do it right. For a 180, maybe its worth taking 50 or 60 exams. Depends on your learning style. It's also a rationalization on my part, since I hit my desired PT range (174ish) and was satisfied, also I was working full time and it seemed oppressive to overdo it.

You should be able to get 23/23 or 24/24 on games no sweat if you've mastered the diagramming and basic four or five individual question types for linear, grouping, and mixed. Do a set of 40-50 "rigorous" games (non-standard) to accustom yourself with how to adapt the irregular games into a regular model, or attack them with a unique setup. I honestly don't think it matters if you do 300 or 30 of a type of game as long as you understand the set-up and you can replicate & solve in <5 min. (After learning the method, key is timing - you want to save yourself as much time for the challenging games as possible by knocking out the easy ones with time to spare.)

Similar idea for LR. Learn the basic 8-10 argument types (weaknesses, strengths, ect), do 50 of each with an emphasis on consistent solving method, then take a few timed PTs to increase your speed. I didn't think it was important to get EVERY question in a section, because some of the ones at the end are just ridiculously long and meant to make you fuck up. If you see an argument comparison as Q31 or something, fuck it, -1 or -2 on LR isn't a problem if your games are solid.

Reading comp for me was all about effective underlining, and mastering distribution of time b/t passage and questions. To be honest, I hardly ever practiced it outside the timed PTs. I think its more an issue of how fluent your english is, how fast and adept a reader you are, ect., and these will be functions of the rigor of your high school and college humanities curriculum. I went to a very serious high school and a college with an extreme emphasis on good writing and tons of reading, so even though I was actually a STEM major, it wasn't much of a problem. What I learned for the LSAT was to ID the information I would need (underlining), and the information I wouldn't. Also switching btween a highlighter and a pencil is fucking stupid and I wouldn't recommend even bringing a highlighter with you into the test. At the end of the day, you can miss 5 or 6 reading comp questions and still hit 170 if the other more learnable sections are solid.

Would I pay sticker for lower T14? Depends on how wealthy my parents are and what they are willing to contribute. I wouldn't loan $250,000 at first blush for any law school, including Yale (although that's tricky because with Yale's LRAP there's basically no risk, you can work at any job and they will pay your loans for you, so idk). Would I let my parents pay for sticker if they could afford it at Cornell if it was the best law school I got into? Sure. Would I loan sticker for it? Never. I'm loaning ~$140K for CLS (no parental assistance) and it sickens me watching the interest grow every week.

Why? It's not that I'm particularly "debt averse." First of all, practicing law isn't worth the risk of pushing $300K in student loans for me since I had a decently cushy gig in consulting; second, since my grades were OK, if the choice was between retaking the LSAT and going to Gtown, Cornell, or Northwestern at sticker, I'd just retake and stay at my job longer - don't get me wrong, these are amazing schools, but tough to justify at those prices. Third, I think of scholarships not so much as "merit" or the school "award"ing you something - it's more them taking away less from you. Law school should cost $30Kish, so with CoL, $50K tops. The fact that its into the $80,000+ area to attend per year is immoral and unethical; it obviates the principles a legal education is meant to uphold. It's unconscionable. I couldn't live with myself knowing I'd been scammed every day. The $20-25K I get each year in "grants" to me is just a way of neutralizing the costs and the burden to the school for my education to what it actually is. Law schools should not be profit driven entities, but they are, and it sickens me (now I understand the flaw in this logic, that my scholarship money is largely outside donors that are paying the school the same outrageous tuition bill either way, but it still puts me to sleep easier at night knowing I'm paying closer to what my education should actually cost).




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