3.5 GPA, 168 LSAT, NA URM. Chances at HYS?

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Void
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Re: 3.5 GPA, 168 LSAT, Native American URM. Chances at HYS?

Postby Void » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:17 pm

jordan15 wrote:
Void wrote:Is AA male really a bigger URM boost than NA? I'm surprised to hear this.


There's not nearly enough data to know. It seems like URMs are the one situation where softs (specifically, a compelling DS and URM related activities) make a big difference. With such a limited sample size for NAs it's hard to tell if an applicant got a smaller boost than the average AA applicant because they wrote a terrible DS (or no DS at all) or because adcoms just don't give as much as a bump.


I am surprised because it was always my understanding that NA is a huge bump- not just at law schools but in pretty much all admissions- because there are far, FAR fewer NA applicants than other URMs. But I guess that was always just an assumption on my part.

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Nova
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Re: 3.5 GPA, 168 LSAT, Native American URM. Chances at HYS?

Postby Nova » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:29 pm

Void wrote:
jordan15 wrote:
Void wrote:Is AA male really a bigger URM boost than NA? I'm surprised to hear this.


There's not nearly enough data to know. It seems like URMs are the one situation where softs (specifically, a compelling DS and URM related activities) make a big difference. With such a limited sample size for NAs it's hard to tell if an applicant got a smaller boost than the average AA applicant because they wrote a terrible DS (or no DS at all) or because adcoms just don't give as much as a bump.


I am surprised because it was always my understanding that NA is a huge bump- not just at law schools but in pretty much all admissions- because there are far, FAR fewer NA applicants than other URMs. But I guess that was always just an assumption on my part.

Well, schools generally want their student bodies to reflect general society. Just under 2% of the US pop is NA and about 13% of the US pop is AA. Getting AAs represented is harder, so they get a bigger boost.

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jordan15
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Re: 3.5 GPA, 168 LSAT, Native American URM. Chances at HYS?

Postby jordan15 » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:31 pm

Void wrote:
jordan15 wrote:
Void wrote:Is AA male really a bigger URM boost than NA? I'm surprised to hear this.


There's not nearly enough data to know. It seems like URMs are the one situation where softs (specifically, a compelling DS and URM related activities) make a big difference. With such a limited sample size for NAs it's hard to tell if an applicant got a smaller boost than the average AA applicant because they wrote a terrible DS (or no DS at all) or because adcoms just don't give as much as a bump.


I am surprised because it was always my understanding that NA is a huge bump- not just at law schools but in pretty much all admissions- because there are far, FAR fewer NA applicants than other URMs. But I guess that was always just an assumption on my part.


Where did I say it wasn't a huge bump?

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twenty
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Re: 3.5 GPA, 168 LSAT, Native American URM. Chances at HYS?

Postby twenty » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:46 pm

Hi OP.

If you used the method I pointed out in my thread, you're correct in that your LSAT probably puts you in the top 4-5 NA LSAT takers this year. That said, competition at the HYS level is fairly fierce -- less than 10 NAs enroll in HYS per year. Your GPA isn't bad, but it's also not great, and Harvard especially is known for taking NA candidates with lower than normal LSATs if they have 3.8+ GPAs.

Personally, I think you have a better than 50/50 shot at HYS. I agree that you should retake if you have the ability to, and I also think you should sit out the cycle if you don't get what you want this cycle. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take, though. Apply to the schools you could reasonably see yourself going to, and let the admissions committees do the rest.

Good luck. :)

Bluebird17
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Re: 3.5 GPA, 168 LSAT, Native American URM. Chances at HYS?

Postby Bluebird17 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:53 pm

Thank you for all these replies! Is it worth the money to apply to Yale with my current numbers?

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johnfootball
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Re: 3.5 GPA, 168 LSAT, Native American URM. Chances at HYS?

Postby johnfootball » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:42 am

Bluebird17 wrote:Thank you for all these replies! Is it worth the money to apply to Yale with my current numbers?


Unfortunately, in my opinion, it's highly unlikely, but maybe some of the other posters will say something different.

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jordan15
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Re: 3.5 GPA, 168 LSAT, Native American URM. Chances at HYS?

Postby jordan15 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:51 am

Bluebird17 wrote:Thank you for all these replies! Is it worth the money to apply to Yale with my current numbers?


Unlikely, but you might as well apply. You never know with Yale.

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snagglepuss
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Re: 3.5 GPA, 168 LSAT, Native American URM. Chances at HYS?

Postby snagglepuss » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:58 am

Bluebird17 wrote:Thank you for all these replies! Is it worth the money to apply to Yale with my current numbers?

If you can spare the money, applying seems worth it even if that just means having no regrets. Plus, Yale went as low as 3.13 on GPA and 152 on LSAT last year (these people probably were extreme [reverse] splitters with nobel peace prizes, but I still say take a shot.)

ct352
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Re: 3.5 GPA, 168 LSAT, Native American URM. Chances at HYS?

Postby ct352 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:31 am

I'm going to feel bad for OP when he/she is rejected from YSH and gets disappointed because you guys filled his/her head with smoke.

lastminuteuser
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Re: 3.5 GPA, 168 LSAT, Native American URM. Chances at HYS?

Postby lastminuteuser » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:42 am

Update?

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BelugaWhale
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Re: 3.5 GPA, 168 LSAT, Native American URM. Chances at HYS?

Postby BelugaWhale » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:23 am

I obviously don't know enough about NA URM admissions but my belief is that it's a bigger bump than black URM bump.

OP, for what it's worth, I have a friend here who is NA and he got in with 162 LSAT. Granted I think his GPA was higher than yours but I definitely think that you stand a small, but reasonable chance of getting in now. But again, depends on your softs and a retake would be in your interest.

andythefir
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Re: 3.5 GPA, 168 LSAT, Native American URM. Chances at HYS?

Postby andythefir » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:06 am

Void wrote:Is AA male really a bigger URM boost than NA? I'm surprised to hear this.


It's much more nuanced than that. As mentioned above, law schools need to have roughly the same proportion of students of an ethnicity as the U.S. population. Schools need at least 1.5-2%, which means a small class like Yale needs 2-5 and a large class like Harvard needs 6-12.

The problem is lots of people are 1/16th or 1/32nd Native, and some suddenly reconnect with their roots just in time to apply to law school. Those people will identify as white/Native or other/Native, which will count as Native. Even enrolled members of tribes can be as little as 1/32nd. Those types are not that rare, but someone who was born and raised on the reservation is extremely rare. This is why you see such bizarre outcomes from Natives on places like lawschoolnumbers-some are 1/64th white folks claiming to be native for the first time, others are from the reservation.

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rutgers17
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Re: 3.5 GPA, 168 LSAT, Native American URM. Chances at HYS?

Postby rutgers17 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:47 am

andythefir wrote:
Void wrote:Is AA male really a bigger URM boost than NA? I'm surprised to hear this.


It's much more nuanced than that. As mentioned above, law schools need to have roughly the same proportion of students of an ethnicity as the U.S. population. Schools need at least 1.5-2%, which means a small class like Yale needs 2-5 and a large class like Harvard needs 6-12.

The problem is lots of people are 1/16th or 1/32nd Native, and some suddenly reconnect with their roots just in time to apply to law school. Those people will identify as white/Native or other/Native, which will count as Native. Even enrolled members of tribes can be as little as 1/32nd. Those types are not that rare, but someone who was born and raised on the reservation is extremely rare. This is why you see such bizarre outcomes from Natives on places like lawschoolnumbers-some are 1/64th white folks claiming to be native for the first time, others are from the reservation.


Schools don't need to have a certain percentage of their class represented by any type of minorities. In fact, that's illegal. They strive to have members of all different ethnicities so they have a diverse class, but there are no numbers attached to those goals.




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