175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

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FavreforPresident
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175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby FavreforPresident » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:22 pm

Got a 175 my senior year of college - looking to apply this cycle and wanted to know what is realistic:

3.61 GPA at a public Ivy, Economics Major
2 years work experience at a major Investment Bank in NYC

Chances at Top-14, which ones can I expect to get $ at?

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cotiger
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby cotiger » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:37 pm

FavreforPresident wrote:Got a 175 my senior year of college - looking to apply this cycle and wanted to know what is realistic:

3.61 GPA at a public Ivy, Economics Major
2 years work experience at a major Investment Bank in NYC

Chances at Top-14, which ones can I expect to get $ at?


Can we just say "top public"?

Go to mylsn.info, there's tons of data for your numbers.

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jbagelboy
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:42 pm

You got IB with a 3.6 from a state school (no one says "public ivy" except freshmen and recruiters at UVA)? Shit, those are some connections. I'd stick with it or go MBA route.

You have an outside shot at Harvard, in at CCN with 30-40K, maybe WL at Penn/UVA if you arent convincing in your PS, and $$$ below that. Out at YS

Good luck!

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hephaestus
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby hephaestus » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:53 pm

Lol @ public ivy. But I'd apply to CCN on down and H, though it's a long shot.

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redsox
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby redsox » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:56 pm

What's a public ivy? Is there a collegiate athletic conference of which I am unaware? Or maybe you mean Cornell? That's an Ivy...and sorta public.

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McGruff
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby McGruff » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:28 pm

redsox wrote:What's a public ivy? Is there a collegiate athletic conference of which I am unaware? Or maybe you mean Cornell? That's an Ivy...and sorta public.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ivy

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redsox
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby redsox » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:37 pm

McGruff wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ivy


That's kind of silly.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:45 pm

My unprestigious undergrad is considered a public ivy so I endorse the phrase.

OP apply to all of em. You'll be in good shape. Probably will end up at NYU.

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McGruff
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby McGruff » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:51 pm

redsox wrote:
McGruff wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ivy


That's kind of silly.


The funniest thing is you know people use this phrase to describe their school and then people say "what's that?" and then they have to say something like "well, it basically means it's as good as an Ivy, but it's not one" which sounds a lot more insecure and less impressive than just saying what school you went to and, if they say "hey, that's a good school!", responding with "yeah, I really liked it there."

FavreforPresident
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby FavreforPresident » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:16 pm

Didn't realize Public Ivy would be a more controversial term than Redskins

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redsox
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby redsox » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:27 pm

What did you do for the investment bank?

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cotiger
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby cotiger » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:33 pm

FavreforPresident wrote:Didn't realize Public Ivy would be a more controversial term than Redskins


Not controversial.. just trying too hard.

Anyway, cosigning everything said here. In at CCN on down, big money likely at some of the lower T14, outside shot at H.

FavreforPresident
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby FavreforPresident » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:42 pm

I did M&A Advisory

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cotiger
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby cotiger » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:54 pm

FavreforPresident wrote:Chances at Top-14, which ones can I expect to get $ at?


My advice: apply to all the T14, minus Yale, Stanford, and Georgetown. Money is tougher to guess than acceptances, so you want to have options/the ability to negotiate.

Steveloblaw
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby Steveloblaw » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:43 pm

cotiger wrote:
FavreforPresident wrote:Chances at Top-14, which ones can I expect to get $ at?


My advice: apply to all the T14, minus Yale, Stanford, and Georgetown. Money is tougher to guess than acceptances, so you want to have options/the ability to negotiate.


Love the blatant anti-Georgetown bias

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hephaestus
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby hephaestus » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:01 pm

Steveloblaw wrote:
cotiger wrote:
FavreforPresident wrote:Chances at Top-14, which ones can I expect to get $ at?


My advice: apply to all the T14, minus Yale, Stanford, and Georgetown. Money is tougher to guess than acceptances, so you want to have options/the ability to negotiate.


Love the blatant anti-Georgetown bias

Georgetown statistically does not perform as well as the rest of the lower T14 for big law.

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cotiger
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby cotiger » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:16 pm

ImNoScar wrote:
Steveloblaw wrote:
cotiger wrote:
FavreforPresident wrote:Chances at Top-14, which ones can I expect to get $ at?


My advice: apply to all the T14, minus Yale, Stanford, and Georgetown. Money is tougher to guess than acceptances, so you want to have options/the ability to negotiate.


Love the blatant anti-Georgetown bias

Georgetown statistically does not perform as well as the rest of the lower T14 for big law.


This. And even if you want to argue that the numbers lie, GULC is much stingier with money than the schools just above it. So GULC not only is going to have a higher COA than at better schools, but also wouldn't be helpful even just for negotiations. It's not even worth paying the $25 LSAC fee.

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Ramius
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby Ramius » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:32 am

cotiger wrote:This. And even if you want to argue that the numbers lie, GULC is much stingier with money than the schools just above it. So GULC not only is going to have a higher COA than at better schools, but also wouldn't be helpful even just for negotiations. It's not even worth paying the $25 LSAC fee.


Admittedly, GULC had a couple down years when the recession hit, but based on what I've seen on these boards regarding more recent OCI results, it seems like their numbers could improve and be on par with the other T14. I saw somewhere around here that over 50% of the most recent class nabbed a 2L SA. I have no idea if that's BIGLAW or just any type of SA, but I think GULC shifted their focus because they realized the DC sponge was saturated and they needed to focus more heavily on other markets. It also remains to be seen how GULC (along with the rest of the T14) will respond to the contracting applicant pool. They might shrink class sizes (they already did this some in the last class) and they might free up more money for schollies. I'm not saying it will surely happen, but it definitely could and I wouldn't discount GULC from the start. In this epically changing environment, I'm not sure past observations totally guarantee future results. Speaking on prudence and given the fact that $25 is a drop in the bucket compared to what you might be paying for law school, I'd say it's worth it to apply and see what they offer. If they don't offer enough and their employment numbers next spring are less than encouraging, it becomes pretty simple and you just go somewhere else. No harm, no foul.

Sorry to be the GULC troll here, I just figured I'd give an argument for the other side of the aisle since I have no dog in this fight.

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cotiger
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby cotiger » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:57 am

matthewsean85 wrote:
cotiger wrote:This. And even if you want to argue that the numbers lie, GULC is much stingier with money than the schools just above it. So GULC not only is going to have a higher COA than at better schools, but also wouldn't be helpful even just for negotiations. It's not even worth paying the $25 LSAC fee.


Admittedly, GULC had a couple down years when the recession hit, but based on what I've seen on these boards regarding more recent OCI results, it seems like their numbers could improve and be on par with the other T14. I saw somewhere around here that over 50% of the most recent class nabbed a 2L SA. I have no idea if that's BIGLAW or just any type of SA, but I think GULC shifted their focus because they realized the DC sponge was saturated and they needed to focus more heavily on other markets. It also remains to be seen how GULC (along with the rest of the T14) will respond to the contracting applicant pool. They might shrink class sizes (they already did this some in the last class) and they might free up more money for schollies. I'm not saying it will surely happen, but it definitely could and I wouldn't discount GULC from the start. In this epically changing environment, I'm not sure past observations totally guarantee future results. Speaking on prudence and given the fact that $25 is a drop in the bucket compared to what you might be paying for law school, I'd say it's worth it to apply and see what they offer. If they don't offer enough and their employment numbers next spring are less than encouraging, it becomes pretty simple and you just go somewhere else. No harm, no foul.

Sorry to be the GULC troll here, I just figured I'd give an argument for the other side of the aisle since I have no dog in this fight.


Not a GULC troll, just a devil's advocate, which is always appreciated.

Even way back for the class of 2005 pre ITE, GULC was the lowest performing T14, especially considering OPs BigLaw goals. http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf

Even if the anecdotal board posts on OCI are accurate and GULC has magically pulled up even with the rest of the bottom half of the T14, I still wouldn't trust it. Why base a decision on what may have happened this one year vs. data on actual results year after year?

Yes, GULC has shrunk class sizes (8% from C/O 2013 to C/O 2016), but that's only about half the shrinkage of NU and Michigan (15% and 16%, respectively), and still less than Duke and UVA (11% and 9%), all of whose employment stats were much better to begin with.

As for scholarships, last year of the 10 admitted students with 174-176/3.54-3.68, not a single one got any money from GULC. Compare that to Cornell, where all 4 acceptances received anywhere from 105k-150k. With that WE, OP would have also been in line for a hefty (120k) scholarship from NU. Other schools, all the way up to CCN, are likely for some money, as well.

Even if GULC were to open up the coffers, I see it as highly unlikely that they would be (or even could be) more generous than Cornell and NU. I doubt that they will randomly decide to open the floodgates this cycle, but even in that world, OP would still be sitting in a place where he was getting equal money at schools with outcomes proven to be better (even if GULC does well this year).

And you're right, yeah, $25 isn't that much. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and I don't see any advantage of applying to GULC.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:47 am

I'd still apply to GULC. The fact that they don't give scholarships to people with these numbers is just a yield protection issue, because they give big schollies to people with much worse numbers. You might as well see if they stop playing that game this year. That said, 50% of people getting a 2L SA is nothing to write home about.

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Ramius
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby Ramius » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:52 am

GULC also had people basically apply for merit-based schollies, which probably played a factor as people with those sort of numbers probably said, "screw this, I'm not doing more work just for GULC." No idea if they're doing that again, but it probably was more of a self-selection issue than a stinginess issue.

Steveloblaw
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby Steveloblaw » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:12 am

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - cough up the 25 bucks for GULC, and bring lunch to work for a week to compensate.

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cotiger
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby cotiger » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:32 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:I'd still apply to GULC. The fact that they don't give scholarships to people with these numbers is just a yield protection issue, because they give big schollies to people with much worse numbers. You might as well see if they stop playing that game this year. That said, 50% of people getting a 2L SA is nothing to write home about.


matthewsean85 wrote:GULC also had people basically apply for merit-based schollies, which probably played a factor as people with those sort of numbers probably said, "screw this, I'm not doing more work just for GULC." No idea if they're doing that again, but it probably was more of a self-selection issue than a stinginess issue.


I looked, though, at the results for same GPA with lower LSAT and vise versa. True, GULC did start handing out money, but it was still always a lower dollar amount for a lower percentage of applicants. The lower percentage of applicants getting money could have to do with that "screw it I'm not doing more work for GULC," but that's really kind of my point. What's the point of doing more work for less money from a school with crappier outcomes?

Plus, these attitudes towards scholly money have been consistent at these schools for the last couple of years, so I doubt it will change this year. But even if it did, and the rest of the T14 got super stingy and GULC opened it up, would you rather take $40k from Duke, Cornell, or NU or $100k from GULC, given OPs goals? And then there's the whole issue of the very good likelihood of CCN. Add it all up, and I think it's not even worth $25.

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cotiger
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby cotiger » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:39 am

Steveloblaw wrote:You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - cough up the 25 bucks for GULC, and bring lunch to work for a week to compensate.


But here's the thing, if you absolutely must spend another $25, why GULC instead of Vandy/UCLA/UT etc (depending on regional preferences)? You have the possibility of a near full-ride from those places, which could conceivably be tempting if you're highly debt averse (plus, they're not that much worse than GULC for BigLaw, just maybe more geographically limiting). GULC, on the other hand, is going to give you less money than schools with better employment outcomes will, making an app there pretty useless.

FavreforPresident
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Re: 175 / 3.6 - What are my chances?

Postby FavreforPresident » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:44 pm

What are my odds at Berkeley? Seems like they value GPA a lot more than the other T-14 schools in their tier




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