165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Not sure where your numbers will get you? Dying to know where you stand? Come have your palms read by your fellow posters!
jmcerney
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:25 am

165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby jmcerney » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:00 pm

Hi TLSers,

Ive been reading for a long time and this is my first post. I'm looking for a bit of advice here and appreciate all of your input. I realize these types of posts are dull, but I do need some help/advice.

I have a Bachelors of Science in Mathematics and Arabic from DePaul University. As I said in the subject line I scored 165 on the LSAT and earned a 3.445 GPA. unfortunately, I cannot retake the LSAT as I am living in Oman, and the test is only offered in June in this region of the world (unless of course I waited another year to apply).

I really want to go to Northwestern. I think it is the best school I can get into in Chicago (home and where I want to study). How do you like my chance for getting in? I think I am right at the lower 25 percent for each score range.

Does my BS in Math and Arabic play to my advantage. I certainly think I would have earned a 4.0 if I majored in say, communications.

Does my unique experience in the Middle East help me out? (I taught English in Saudi last year for McGill University, and will spend this year in Muscat. Oman teaching for Military Technical College).

I would like to work in international relations and/or business. I see a law degree as a great way to break into, and excel in, these fields.

Do you have any other suggestions on places I should look into?

Lastly, what do you know about an LLM in International Human Rights? Worth the time and effort?

Thanks again for reading and responding
JC

User avatar
WokeUpInACar
Posts: 5513
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:11 pm

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby WokeUpInACar » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:10 pm

You should probably not attend law school at all. There are much less costly ways to accomplish your goals. Also you will not get into Northwestern without retaking the LSAT.

User avatar
Icculus
Posts: 1421
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:02 am

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby Icculus » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:14 pm

Don't go to lawschool because you don't want to be a lawyer. Also you have a zero percent chance of getting in unless you get that LSAT to at least a 170. NU shrank its class sizes to make sure it's numbers stayed the same.

BigZuck
Posts: 10852
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:20 pm

Retake

jmcerney
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:25 am

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby jmcerney » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:28 pm

Thank you for your timely responses.

As I said, retaking is out of the question. So maybe northwestern is as well. Any other schools I should look into? If 165 is lower 25% percent of the accepted students, it cant be totally out of the question. This is why I asked if my experience and/or degree would play in my favor.

Perhaps an addendum explaining that a retake was out of the question?

If you think Law School is not for me, what else do you suggest? I think it is, but maybe im being naive. I really want to use the law to improve relations with the middle east, and prehaps one day create the laws that form our relations with the region. I am sure there are legal ends to international business as well. Really, I want to use my logic and language skills in my profession. Law school seems like a great way to hone those skills.

Thanks again!

Big Dog
Posts: 1191
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:34 pm

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby Big Dog » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:38 pm

if you really want to work in the international arena, you will need a degree from a prestigious school, and a 3.45/165 won't get you there. Retake or forget LS.

unfortunately, I cannot retake the LSAT as I am living in Oman, and the test is only offered in June in this region of the world (unless of course I waited another year to apply)


Or jump on a plane.....

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22805
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:55 pm

jmcerney wrote:I really want to go to Northwestern. I think it is the best school I can get into in Chicago (home and where I want to study). How do you like my chance for getting in? I think I am right at the lower 25 percent for each score range.

Keep in mind that in most cases, if someone is at the lower 25% for one score, they will be at a higher percentile for the other score - a 25% GPA will be balanced by a 95% LSAT, for instance. You're not going to get in at 25th percentile for both. Check out http://mylsn.info.

jmcerney
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:25 am

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby jmcerney » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:05 pm

Ah I see, that is a very helpful website, thanks for your input.

User avatar
Toby Ziegler
Posts: 701
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 2:59 pm

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby Toby Ziegler » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:19 pm

jmcerney wrote:
Does my BS in Math and Arabic play to my advantage. I certainly think I would have earned a 4.0 if I majored in say, communications.


This always makes me laugh. For one, I don't know how you can certainly know you would have earned a 4.0. Secondly, you didn't earn a 4.0 you earned a 3.445, so it's irrelevant.

But in all seriousness OP you're not competitive at Northwestern, and the only way you will be is with a retake.

jmcerney
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:25 am

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby jmcerney » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:48 pm

I guess what I was getting at is a 3.44 with a BS in Math and Arabic is certainly more admirable than one with a BA in Communications. What I would have or could have done in such a program is irrelevant, but what is relevant is the strength of my degree. I am wondering how much this plays into my favor?

Is it worth even applying to NW with these numbers?

Travis12 wrote:
jmcerney wrote:
Does my BS in Math and Arabic play to my advantage. I certainly think I would have earned a 4.0 if I majored in say, communications.


This always makes me laugh. For one, I don't know how you can certainly know you would have earned a 4.0. Secondly, you didn't earn a 4.0 you earned a 3.445, so it's irrelevant.

But in all seriousness OP you're not competitive at Northwestern, and the only way you will be is with a retake.

User avatar
rinkrat19
Posts: 13912
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:35 am

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:50 pm

It doesn't play into your favor, since schools don't get to report GPA+major difficulty to USNWR for rankings purposes. A harder major might be a tiebreaker between two identical GPAs, but it absolutely does not make up for any lacking in GPA.

jmcerney
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:25 am

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby jmcerney » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:53 pm

Okay,

So NW is out I guess. :( Is it worth settling for the likes of DePaul or Loyola, or should I be looking elsewhere?

I really don't think waiting another year to retake is a good idea, but an hour ago I thought NW was. Any advice on postponing a year?

Thanks again for the input, much appreciated

User avatar
Icculus
Posts: 1421
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:02 am

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby Icculus » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:57 pm

jmcerney wrote:Okay,

So NW is out I guess. :( Is it worth settling for the likes of DePaul or Loyola, or should I be looking elsewhere?

I really don't think waiting another year to retake is a good idea, but an hour ago I thought NW was. Any advice on postponing a year?

Thanks again for the input, much appreciated


You don't want to be a lawyer...DON'T GO TO LAW SCHOOL.

If you decide you want to be a lawyer, wait a year and retake the LSAT, or come take it in the U.S., get a 170+ and make your decision.

But again....YOU DON'T SAY YOU WANT TO BE A LAWYER, DON'T GO TO LAW SCHOOL!

User avatar
Toby Ziegler
Posts: 701
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 2:59 pm

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby Toby Ziegler » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:59 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:It doesn't play into your favor, since schools don't get to report GPA+major difficulty to USNWR for rankings purposes. A harder major might be a tiebreaker between two identical GPAs, but it absolutely does not make up for any lacking in GPA.


This is the credited response. From how you are describing yourself it sounds like you have an interesting story. You have lived/are living overseas. If you get a 5 point bump in LSAT score and sit out a cycle and gain some WE you're all but a lock at NU. I too shutter at the thought of waiting another year, but in the long run the job prospects and the security that it brings is much more important than instant gratification. As someone mentioned above, can you make a trip to somewhere that administers the LSAT in December? That would give you adequate time to study and still allow you to submit this cycle.
but as others have said make sure that you want to practice law, or else your just paying six figures for a fancy framed piece of paper.

User avatar
mandyjay11
Posts: 1159
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:36 am

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby mandyjay11 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:17 pm

Travis12 wrote:
jmcerney wrote:
Does my BS in Math and Arabic play to my advantage. I certainly think I would have earned a 4.0 if I majored in say, communications.


This always makes me laugh. For one, I don't know how you can certainly know you would have earned a 4.0. Secondly, you didn't earn a 4.0 you earned a 3.445, so it's irrelevant.

But in all seriousness OP you're not competitive at Northwestern, and the only way you will be is with a retake.


+1 and I am tired of communications slander. ugh

User avatar
John Winger
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:28 pm

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby John Winger » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:18 pm

jmcerney wrote:Okay,

So NW is out I guess. :( Is it worth settling for the likes of DePaul or Loyola, or should I be looking elsewhere?

I really don't think waiting another year to retake is a good idea, but an hour ago I thought NW was. Any advice on postponing a year?

Thanks again for the input, much appreciated


If you want to be a LAWYER in Chicago ONLY then apply Kent, Loyola, and DePaul. However, the job prospects aren't good, especially well paying jobs so make sure you don't bone yourself into six-figure debt. Helpful if you have strong connections in Chicago law (ie your dad is a partner and can guarantee you a job).

If you want NU and any chance at getting into business (via big-law practice first then to in-house counsel) you need a retake.

All this requires actually practing law which doesn't seem to interest you so I would not pay for a TT or TTT degree at whatever price or NU at/close to sticker if you don't want to practice law first.

jmcerney
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:25 am

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby jmcerney » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:21 pm

Travis12 wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:It doesn't play into your favor, since schools don't get to report GPA+major difficulty to USNWR for rankings purposes. A harder major might be a tiebreaker between two identical GPAs, but it absolutely does not make up for any lacking in GPA.


This is the credited response. From how you are describing yourself it sounds like you have an interesting story. You have lived/are living overseas. If you get a 5 point bump in LSAT score and sit out a cycle and gain some WE you're all but a lock at NU. I too shutter at the thought of waiting another year, but in the long run the job prospects and the security that it brings is much more important than instant gratification. As someone mentioned above, can you make a trip to somewhere that administers the LSAT in December? That would give you adequate time to study and still allow you to submit this cycle.
but as others have said make sure that you want to practice law, or else your just paying six figures for a fancy framed piece of paper.


Forgive my ignorance... but what is WE?

I do want to be a Lawyer. I dont think I was clear when I said I want to ge tinto international relations/business. I was being trying to be concise about my career goals. I want to exercise the law in these realms. I'm not exactly sure how I want to do that, but I do have a strong interest in the law. There's much more work to be done on my goals, I realize that, but studying and practicing law is something I am sure I want to do. Ideally I could use my international experience and Arabic language skills while doing it.

Can I submit applications early and then submit an updated LSAT score in Dec?

User avatar
Icculus
Posts: 1421
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:02 am

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby Icculus » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:27 pm

jmcerney wrote:
Travis12 wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:It doesn't play into your favor, since schools don't get to report GPA+major difficulty to USNWR for rankings purposes. A harder major might be a tiebreaker between two identical GPAs, but it absolutely does not make up for any lacking in GPA.


This is the credited response. From how you are describing yourself it sounds like you have an interesting story. You have lived/are living overseas. If you get a 5 point bump in LSAT score and sit out a cycle and gain some WE you're all but a lock at NU. I too shutter at the thought of waiting another year, but in the long run the job prospects and the security that it brings is much more important than instant gratification. As someone mentioned above, can you make a trip to somewhere that administers the LSAT in December? That would give you adequate time to study and still allow you to submit this cycle.
but as others have said make sure that you want to practice law, or else your just paying six figures for a fancy framed piece of paper.


Forgive my ignorance... but what is WE?

I do want to be a Lawyer. I dont think I was clear when I said I want to ge tinto international relations/business. I was being trying to be concise about my career goals. I want to exercise the law in these realms. I'm not exactly sure how I want to do that, but I do have a strong interest in the law. There's much more work to be done on my goals, I realize that, but studying and practicing law is something I am sure I want to do. Ideally I could use my international experience and Arabic language skills while doing it.

Can I submit applications early and then submit an updated LSAT score in Dec?


WE =work experience.

You can always send an updated score, but you could also just apply with a December score.

BigZuck
Posts: 10852
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:40 pm

Even if you do become a lawyer, keep in mind that you almost certainly won't be doing the kinds of things you say you want to do. Those jobs don't really exist, and even if they did they would go to people with a much better academic pedigree than you will have. I'm not saying that to be a dick, it's just honesty.

Also as someone in his first year of law school I can't fathom why anyone would rush to try and get here as soon as they possibly can.

Retake or don't go.

User avatar
esypsylmnsqsy
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:02 pm

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby esypsylmnsqsy » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:29 pm

Icculus wrote:NU shrank its class sizes to make sure it's numbers stayed the same.


What was your source on this, and how much did they shrink it by?

User avatar
Icculus
Posts: 1421
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:02 am

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby Icculus » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:31 pm

esypsylmnsqsy wrote:
Icculus wrote:NU shrank its class sizes to make sure it's numbers stayed the same.


What was your source on this, and how much did they shrink it by?


Our dean and about 10% from last year. He didn't actually say this was the reasoning but it probably was. I think they plan to make up for the drop in tuition through LLMs and transfers. This on top of the fact that 2015 was already smaller than 2014.

User avatar
esypsylmnsqsy
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:02 pm

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby esypsylmnsqsy » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:35 pm

Interesting. Well I'm hoping for NU, and it would be great if they didn't drop their numbers much.

User avatar
rinkrat19
Posts: 13912
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:35 am

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:55 pm

Icculus wrote:
esypsylmnsqsy wrote:
Icculus wrote:NU shrank its class sizes to make sure it's numbers stayed the same.


What was your source on this, and how much did they shrink it by?


Our dean and about 10% from last year. He didn't actually say this was the reasoning but it probably was. I think they plan to make up for the drop in tuition through LLMs and transfers. This on top of the fact that 2015 was already smaller than 2014.

To support this: there are an absolutely huge number of transfers this year, so that we 2Ls are heartily confused at who the hell all these randos are. Transfers nearly all pay full tuition, unlike the high-number people they would have had to attract to keep the 1L class size and medians up.

User avatar
TheSpanishMain
Posts: 4114
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: 165 and a 3.445 Northwestern? Any suggestions?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:09 pm

jmcerney wrote:
If you think Law School is not for me, what else do you suggest? I think it is, but maybe im being naive. I really want to use the law to improve relations with the middle east, and prehaps one day create the laws that form our relations with the region.



So...you want to be in the legislature? :?

Your goals aren't bad (although I can't for the life of me imagine why someone would want to work in the Gulf states.) It's just that law school is not a good route to get there. You'd be much better off looking at the Foreign Service, international consulting, education, etc. US law schools teach you US law which lets you practice in US courts. Law school for you would be an expensive way to waste three years.

Also, are you a native English speaker?




Return to “What are my chances?”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: hayleyc, Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests