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twenty
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby twenty » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:42 pm

I'm just going to make this blanket statement right now.

Pre-law advisors should be rounded up and gassed.

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jbagelboy
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:17 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:I'm just going to make this blanket statement right now.

Pre-law advisors should be rounded up and gassed.


Thats a bit much dude, and not just because of the wildly inappropriate historical overtones. I mean yes they are ill informed but many are just local attorneys or professors trying to lend a hand or feel involved. I would say they should all be fired and/or disbarred where applicable. Death is a heavy sentence

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CO2016YEAH
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby CO2016YEAH » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:28 pm

Travis12 wrote:
Clearlynotstefan wrote:
MistakenGenius wrote:Thank you all of you for replying so fast. This is a wonderful community on here. My LSGPA is the one that is 3.75, my GPA from my school is a 3.72. abl, thank you so much for the offer. I might just do that. You guys don't think my W's are going to hold me back at all? A counselor at my school insinuated that no school in the top 25 would let me in.

Don't ever listen to anything those people say, ever.


Another useless academic advisor that would be better suited to a career in ditch digging or bottle washing. The nonsense that comes from some of these so-called "councillor's" mouths is unbelievable.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby Scotusnerd » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:36 pm

MistakenGenius wrote:Hey guys, any advice you can give will be wonderful.

I have a bit of an odd situation here that the calculator just cannot help me with. As you can see, my GPA from all of my undergrad was a 3.75. It's an okay GPA, though I realize it most likely knocks me out of quite a few schools. Here's the problem. My first semester I received a very low GPA-3.25, my second semester I had a low one as well, right around a 3.46. I actually had a severe illness (stomach cancer) that prevented me from studying as hard as I could. Because of this illness, I then had to withdraw from two semesters in a row and was hospitalized. That is shown on my transcript, so it will either look like I withdrew from 2 semesters or that I have a whopping 10 W's on my transcript. Obviously, I am going to have an addendum on my application explaining the issue and will probably have a dean write one as well for me. This is addition to having a documented disability because of it at the school. I still think it may hurt me, which is why I wanted to talk to you about it. The good news is that once I was treated and returned to school, I was able to actually concentrate in class, and for the last two years have managed to have a 3.93 GPA, which pulled my low one up.

My undergrad school is okay. Clemson. Not the Iveys most of you like to see.

My softs aren't very good either compared with most of you. Obviously, I wasn't the most active student in clubs since my illness. However, I did work as an assistant scoutmaster in the boy scout troop where I earned my own Eagle. I worked my way through school and battled poverty. I come from a very poor town where I also started a big wood bank for all the poor families that heat their homes with firewood. I also worked with a law firm for a year.

My LSAT was a 176 on my first attempt. I'd rather not retake unless everyone thinks I need to.

I honestly am not as knowledgeable about the law school process as many of you. I tend to always miscalculate my own chances. What do all of you think? I am really not sure about where I should even apply with all of my W's. My dream job out of law school would be a Federal clerkship. Do you think I have any shot at any of the T14s? If I don't, should I remain in SC and go to Charleston or South Carolina? Basically, if you were in my situation, where would you apply and what do you think my odds are at those schools? Thank you so much!


Shoot me a PM if you're serious about the South Carolina thing.

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lmr
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby lmr » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:51 am

MistakenGenius wrote:Thank you for all your answers. Yes, my pre-law advisor told me that my W's would lock me out of virtually all top schools and that it would be a waste of time applying. She also said that schools like Harvard could fill up their rosters three times over with people with 4.0's and 180s and that the best school that anyone she knows of from Clemson got into was USC (Clemson is a big engineering school, not as much pre-law). She said that I would most likely only get into South Carolina or Charleston and my reach could be Emory, UNC, or UGA, but not to hold my breath. blsingindisguise, I think my LSAT was pretty good, I wouldn't say I'm any more modest that the next person. I am very unhappy with my GPA since I know I could have done so much better. I just discovered this community a couple days ago. Before this, the only connection I had to prelaw was my advisor. Throttle, I don't know why you are behaving with such hostility. You're being very rude. Thank you to all the rest of you. I love all the help I received on here. I might hang around for a while now.

Some last questions, it seems that you guys are disagreeing, would it be worth my while to apply to Yale and Stanford? Applications are not cheap and I'd rather not spend the money if I have 0 chance. Also, which schools would count as reach, safeties, and matches with my numbers?


You don't have zero chance at YS. You have a shot- idk how to quantify it. you have a great background story so APPLY! Seriously this isn't the place/time to be cheap, esp with your numbers. You can get a fee waiver if you are strapped for cash. Reach is prob Yale & stanford, but w your story, who knows. Match=harvard and the rest w money. I'd blanket the t-14, if I were you.

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zabagabe
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby zabagabe » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:09 am

1. Your pre-law advisor doesn't even know her own school. A 2L friend of mine at Y is a Clemson alum. Henceforth dispatch with all her advice. Everything she's told you is wrong, wrong, wrong.
2. Congrats. Given what you had to overcome, your application is incredibly strong, as others have said.
3. Definitely apply to Y and S. I can't emphasize enough how much it's worth risking the waste of $160 (or whatever it is now) to apply to these two given how much the school you go to matters in the long wrong. Seriously, do it! If you doubt this, you can PM me, or really, any of us. I think everyone will tell you it's worth it if there's even a 5% chance, and there DEFINITELY is given your special circumstances.
4. Re explaining your situation, just write a brief, simple addendum describing the facts of your freshman year, the reason for the withdrawals, etc. You can simply end by saying you think the last two years of your time in college are more reflective of your abilities, which is not only true, but doesn't sound like an excuse. Simple as that.

Good luck!

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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby IAFG » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:50 am

Cicero76 wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
abl wrote:Am I missing something? This guy/gal strikes me as being strong HYS material. OP -- unless I'm confused about something, if you work hard on your personal statement and craft a compelling story, your stats and background are definitely strong enough for HYS.

He has some chance at H but very little at YS. Certainly worth applying to all three though, and things obviously look really good beyond those three.



OP had CANCER. His chances at YS are better than his numbers would suggest.

Except the thing that could potentially hold him back from Y and S isn't .25 GPA points. Even if he had a 180/4.0 he would not be auto admit at those schools. I don't think they're going to look at his stomach cancer thing and be like, "ah, I see, if he hadnt been dealing with cancer he would have been building hospitals in Ivory Coast."

Not saying OP won't get Y/S. He might.

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jetsfan1
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby jetsfan1 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:58 am

I would definitely write an addendum here. And don't leave it to adcoms to figure out that it effected your frosh year grades, as someone said earlier. You have a legitimate excuse. Say something along the lines of "during my freshman year, I was diagnose with stomach cancer, which affected my academics that year and led to my withdrawal from school the following year. After beating cancer, I returned to school, posting a 3.93 in my remaining years. I believe these semesters to be indicative of my true academic ability."

This is way off the top of my head, so it's gotta be brushed up. But keep it short and sweet and let them know it affected your first year of school.

Lastly, apply across the T14. I think your story/numbers are compelling enough to have a decent shot at HYS, at least worth the app fee to YS. The wood bank is very interesting. "Founded a nonprofit (or something along those lines,whatever it officially is) is a good soft. Your life story is intriguing as well. Don't not apply somewhere and live the rest of your life wondering what if.

Lastly again, come back here once your cycle is over and let us know what happened, would be very interested.

Last lastly lol- good luck!!!

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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby envisciguy » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:20 am

MistakenGenius wrote:Thank you for all your answers. Yes, my pre-law advisor told me that my W's would lock me out of virtually all top schools and that it would be a waste of time applying. She also said that schools like Harvard could fill up their rosters three times over with people with 4.0's and 180s and that the best school that anyone she knows of from Clemson got into was USC (Clemson is a big engineering school, not as much pre-law). She said that I would most likely only get into South Carolina or Charleston and my reach could be Emory, UNC, or UGA, but not to hold my breath. blsingindisguise, I think my LSAT was pretty good, I wouldn't say I'm any more modest that the next person. I am very unhappy with my GPA since I know I could have done so much better. I just discovered this community a couple days ago. Before this, the only connection I had to prelaw was my advisor. Throttle, I don't know why you are behaving with such hostility. You're being very rude. Thank you to all the rest of you. I love all the help I received on here. I might hang around for a while now.

Some last questions, it seems that you guys are disagreeing, would it be worth my while to apply to Yale and Stanford? Applications are not cheap and I'd rather not spend the money if I have 0 chance. Also, which schools would count as reach, safeties, and matches with my numbers?


Can't hurt to apply. You should also get fee waivers at the vast majority of schools with your numbers (and you can solicit fee waivers from schools you're interested in). So the total app costs won't be as much as you expect. Your GPA isn't low and your LSAT is above almost every school's 75th percentile. Even if you don't get HYS, you should be looking at half to full tuition scholarships at schools like Duke and UVA.

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hoos89
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby hoos89 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:38 am

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Last edited by hoos89 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:48 am

hoos89 wrote:Also, only about 60 people get a 180 in a given year, and maybe a handful of them have 4.0s. And Harvard's class size is over 500 per year.

And even 60 is probably too high. Historically it was about 20-30 per year. Just craziness from that advisor, although she was obviously especially nuts given that lots of Clemson people have gone to schools better than South Carolina. Maybe she is just really fond of South Carolina.

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Ramius
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby Ramius » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:53 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
hoos89 wrote:Also, only about 60 people get a 180 in a given year, and maybe a handful of them have 4.0s. And Harvard's class size is over 500 per year.

And even 60 is probably too high. Historically it was about 20-30 per year. Just craziness from that advisor, although she was obviously especially nuts given that lots of Clemson people have gone to schools better than South Carolina. Maybe she is just really fond of South Carolina.


South Carolinians do really love their state. The only surprising part is you'd think the advisor, given her apparent idiocy in all relevant subjects, didn't say to avoid USC because their football team sucks and Steve Spurrier is a cheat or some other school pride asininery.

Ti Malice
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:25 pm

zabagabe wrote:1. Your pre-law advisor doesn't even know her own school. A 2L friend of mine at Y is a Clemson alum. Henceforth dispatch with all her advice.


Ha. I was going to say the same thing.

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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:48 pm

IAFG wrote:
Cicero76 wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
abl wrote:Am I missing something? This guy/gal strikes me as being strong HYS material. OP -- unless I'm confused about something, if you work hard on your personal statement and craft a compelling story, your stats and background are definitely strong enough for HYS.

He has some chance at H but very little at YS. Certainly worth applying to all three though, and things obviously look really good beyond those three.



OP had CANCER. His chances at YS are better than his numbers would suggest.

Except the thing that could potentially hold him back from Y and S isn't .25 GPA points. Even if he had a 180/4.0 he would not be auto admit at those schools. I don't think they're going to look at his stomach cancer thing and be like, "ah, I see, if he hadnt been dealing with cancer he would have been building hospitals in Ivory Coast."

Not saying OP won't get Y/S. He might.


That's a bit of a false dilemma, don't you think? No one's saying that he would be a shoe-in with a higher GPA. The point is that Y and S have pretty hard 3.8 GPA floors, which would normally give a white male with a <3.8 GPA a vanishingly small chance of admission. We're saying that because he has pretty compelling mitigating circumstances, a 3.75 is probably not going to be a deal-breaker for him like it would be otherwise.

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hoos89
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby hoos89 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:06 pm

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Last edited by hoos89 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:22 pm

hoos89 wrote:Isn't Stanford's 25% GPA a 3.72?

Yes. And they accept about 350 people per year.

Ti Malice
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:36 pm

hoos89 wrote:Isn't Stanford's 25% GPA a 3.72?


It's a 3.76. But what's your point? If you're a non-URM male with a <3.8 GPA, you have almost no chance of being admitted. Here's how non-URM applicants with LSATs ranging from 170-180 and GPAs ranging from 3.7 to 3.79 have done over the last several cycles:

Image

abl
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby abl » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:14 pm

The exceptions to those GPA floors are going to be people exactly like the OP. And the OP isn't exactly a weak candidate for these schools based on numbers alone -- 3.75/176 will get a pretty hard look from HYS even without a compelling personal story.

OP -- it's definitely worth the admissions fee to apply to YS. If you absolutely need to save money and can't get fee waivers for whatever reason, I'd cut out some of the lower T14s that you're less excited about (like Cornell, for example, if the location is a problem for you*) or just about any school outside of the T14.

*I'm not knocking Cornell, which is a great school that I woulda chosen over some of the other T14s. Just using it as an example...

politics89
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby politics89 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:24 pm

Ti Malice wrote:
hoos89 wrote:Isn't Stanford's 25% GPA a 3.72?


It's a 3.76. But what's your point? If you're a non-URM male with a <3.8 GPA, you have almost no chance of being admitted. Here's how non-URM applicants with LSATs ranging from 170-180 and GPAs ranging from 3.7 to 3.79 have done over the last several cycles:


I apparently am not allowed to repost the mylsn chart but....

Isnt this a bit wide in its ranges? 170 is below medians at HYS, whereas a 176 puts him in a much stronger positions, no?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:31 pm

politics89 wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:
hoos89 wrote:Isn't Stanford's 25% GPA a 3.72?


It's a 3.76. But what's your point? If you're a non-URM male with a <3.8 GPA, you have almost no chance of being admitted. Here's how non-URM applicants with LSATs ranging from 170-180 and GPAs ranging from 3.7 to 3.79 have done over the last several cycles:


I apparently am not allowed to repost the mylsn chart but....

Isnt this a bit wide in its ranges? 170 is below medians at HYS, whereas a 176 puts him in a much stronger positions, no?

Doesn't really help, probably in part because Stanford's LSAT median is 170.

Image

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ScottRiqui
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby ScottRiqui » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:37 pm

politics89 wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:
hoos89 wrote:Isn't Stanford's 25% GPA a 3.72?


It's a 3.76. But what's your point? If you're a non-URM male with a <3.8 GPA, you have almost no chance of being admitted. Here's how non-URM applicants with LSATs ranging from 170-180 and GPAs ranging from 3.7 to 3.79 have done over the last several cycles:


I apparently am not allowed to repost the mylsn chart but....

Isnt this a bit wide in its ranges? 170 is below medians at HYS, whereas a 176 puts him in a much stronger positions, no?


If you narrow the LSAT range a bit to 174-178, and just use the current cycle and last year's cycle, the picture does look a *little* better:


Image

Ti Malice
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:28 pm

politics89 wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:
hoos89 wrote:Isn't Stanford's 25% GPA a 3.72?


It's a 3.76. But what's your point? If you're a non-URM male with a <3.8 GPA, you have almost no chance of being admitted. Here's how non-URM applicants with LSATs ranging from 170-180 and GPAs ranging from 3.7 to 3.79 have done over the last several cycles:


I apparently am not allowed to repost the mylsn chart but....

Isnt this a bit wide in its ranges? 170 is below medians at HYS, whereas a 176 puts him in a much stronger positions, no?


Look at the conversation that prompted my posting the chart. The poster I replied to seemed to be expressing surprise at the claim that non-URMs with <3.8 GPAs usually have almost no chance at S, given their sub-3.8 25th percentile. The point of the chart was simply to show that hardly any non-URMs with sub-3.8GPAs get into S (or Y). I wasn't posting it in reference to the OP's odds. Nothing is going to be very predictive with that, given his extraordinary circumstances. But I've made it clear that I think his chances are much stronger than the typical sub-3.8 applicant at both schools.

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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:36 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:
politics89 wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:
hoos89 wrote:Isn't Stanford's 25% GPA a 3.72?


It's a 3.76. But what's your point? If you're a non-URM male with a <3.8 GPA, you have almost no chance of being admitted. Here's how non-URM applicants with LSATs ranging from 170-180 and GPAs ranging from 3.7 to 3.79 have done over the last several cycles:


I apparently am not allowed to repost the mylsn chart but....

Isnt this a bit wide in its ranges? 170 is below medians at HYS, whereas a 176 puts him in a much stronger positions, no?


If you narrow the LSAT range a bit to 174-178, and just use the current cycle and last year's cycle, the picture does look a *little* better:


Image


Thats just less data and an insufficient sample size, not a better picture

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radar714
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Re: 3.75, 176-However, Really weird situation

Postby radar714 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:46 pm

bro...you beat CANCER. I'm sure plenty of people here would argue that beating cancer is at best a mediocre soft just like anything short of rhodes/URM/Seal Team 6, but that's pretty god damn impressive and says a lot about your character and resilience. While your statistical chances are not that great for Y/S you should apply everywhere because in your case, you actually are a relatively special snowflake that overcame poverty and a life-threatening disease, AND you have some geniune charitable work (unlike most of the "volunteer" work on resumes that is just there for show, myself included). Like a few other posters have said, make sure to have a well crafted PS and addendum. You may not get into Y/S, but you should ask yourself if you think it worth the ~$300 to know for sure. It's a personal choice, but I would do it.




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