Boost for Top Undergrad School??

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o'kane
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Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby o'kane » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:35 pm

I went to a U.S. News top 5 rated university in the midwest, a university whose students believe that their grades have not been subject to the inflation seen elsewhere. Whether this is true not, who knows. But at any rate, do you think there is much of a boost for students from top schools not called HYP or S? And do law schools look at differences in grading tendencies at different schools?

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dr123
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby dr123 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:35 pm

not particularly

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rinkrat19
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby rinkrat19 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:37 pm

No.

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dr123
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby dr123 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:40 pm

PS you could have just said you go to UChicago. Theres only one midwestern T5 university.

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chem
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby chem » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:53 pm

o'kane wrote:I went to a U.S. News top 5 rated university in the midwest, a university whose students believe that their grades have not been subject to the inflation seen elsewhere. Whether this is true not, who knows. All I know is at Chicago we are thought to think for ourselves, and ask the questions that others are afraid to ask. No, I have not heard of the search function

akg144
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby akg144 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:00 pm

They r wrong it does help, they have a methodology that accounts for a school's grading system and juxtaposes your GPA with other students who have attended. It's probably not a major factor but according to Anna Ivey's book it is most definitely a consideration.

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hephaestus
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby hephaestus » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:01 pm

Search function.

abl
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby abl » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:27 pm

It makes a difference for at least HYS (law schools). It's hard to say how much of a difference it makes elsewhere.

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Motivator9
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby Motivator9 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:33 pm

I tend to disagree. I think it certainly does, assuming your in the targeted law school's numbers when applying. I strengthens your GPA compared to other students with lower ranked schools.

Also, don't schools look the average lsat scores for UG schools as one way to gauge their student body overall? I would think it would be higher for a top five school. But again, it's not going to be considered a strong soft.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby rinkrat19 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:37 pm

If there were any boost, there would be a pattern (which someone would have discovered and documented) of applicants being accepted to different schools that their numbers would suggest, according to undergrad. There is not. Law schools report median GPA to USNWR, not median GPA-adjusted-for-RIGOR.

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Motivator9
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby Motivator9 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:43 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:If there were any boost, there would be a pattern (which someone would have discovered and documented) of applicants being accepted to different schools that their numbers would suggest, according to undergrad. There is not. Law schools report median GPA to USNWR, not median GPA-adjusted-for-RIGOR.


I agree that there is no "pattern", but I would feel better applying to law school coming from a higher ranked school because I wouldn't have to worry as much about people thinking that my GPA is inflated because of my UG.

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MyNameIsFlynn!
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby MyNameIsFlynn! » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:43 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:If there were any boost, there would be a pattern (which someone would have discovered and documented) of applicants being accepted to different schools that their numbers would suggest, according to undergrad. There is not. Law schools report median GPA to USNWR, not median GPA-adjusted-for-RIGOR.


There's decent evidence that H (possibly YS, don't remember for sure) favors Ivy undergrads. This question has been asked and discussed at length many times, so OP, check out the search function.

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Nova
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby Nova » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:49 pm

Motivator9 wrote:I tend to disagree. I think it certainly does, assuming your in the targeted law school's numbers when applying. I strengthens your GPA compared to other students with lower ranked schools.


Many top schools inflate GPAs...

Solely for the purposes of law school admissions, I would rather have an above median GPA from a community college and then a state school than a below median GPA from UChi.

Kurst wrote:Does your undergrad school matter? Can it help an applicant?
Does your undergraduate institution matter?
Importance of undergrade prestige for T14?
3.0 from Dartmouth versus 3.0 from state school
Non-elite UG: a T-6 killer?
Any T14 students here started at community college for UG?
Do T14's look down on community colleges?
It doesn't matter where you went for UG!
What Undergraduate School should I pick to help my LS Admiss
Should I Transfer Undergraduate Schools?
High numbers, low undergrad prestigue
Does the undergraduate school matter?
Undergraduate Advice
How much does your undergraduate Institution Matter?
How important is undergrad prestige?
Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?
Does Undergraduate School Matter?
to what degree does undergraduate institution matter at HYS?
does undergrad matter at all?
Do law schools really care what school you attended for UG?
How much does UG matter?
College Freshman looking at Law School
178 LSAT, 3.93 GPA - Does UG really matter?
Importance of Undergrad Institution
Unknown Undergraduate Institution
Weight of UG institution in LS+ Big Law
UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype
Will undergrad prestige matter?
Does undergraduate school matter?
Does where you went Undergraduate matter?
does your undergrad university prestige matter?
How much does undergrad school matter?
Does your undergraduate school matter?
Does Undergraduate School Matter?
Does the Undergrad School you graduate from matter?
Does school matter?
Undergrad Prestige
snob appeal of your undergraduate institution
Question about GPA major and school prestige
Is UG prestige a factor in the admission process?
OS Updates: Yes, Virginia, Undergraduate Schools Matter.
How much does where you went to undergrad matter?
Why does quality of undergrad matter so little?
How much does where you did undergrad matter?
How much does what undergrad school you attend matter?
Undergrad doesn't matter! (unless it's a good one)
Does undergrad matter
Quality of undergrad institution does matter!
Does undergrad matter?
Undergrad doesnt matter? WSJ disagrees.
Name of Undergrad School Matter in Applying?
How much weight is given to your undergrad college?
Importance of Undergraduate University??
Does it matter where you do your UG studies for T14 schools?
Does quality of undergrad make a significant difference?
Does UG Really Not Matter?
How much does where you went for UG factor in?

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Motivator9
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby Motivator9 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:52 pm

Nova wrote:
Motivator9 wrote:I tend to disagree. I think it certainly does, assuming your in the targeted law school's numbers when applying. I strengthens your GPA compared to other students with lower ranked schools.


Many top schools inflate GPAs...

Soley for the purposes of law school admissions, I would rather bhave an above median GPA from a community college and then a state school than a below median GPA from UChi.

Kurst wrote:Does your undergrad school matter? Can it help an applicant?
Does your undergraduate institution matter?
Importance of undergrade prestige for T14?
3.0 from Dartmouth versus 3.0 from state school
Non-elite UG: a T-6 killer?
Any T14 students here started at community college for UG?
Do T14's look down on community colleges?
It doesn't matter where you went for UG!
What Undergraduate School should I pick to help my LS Admiss
Should I Transfer Undergraduate Schools?
High numbers, low undergrad prestigue
Does the undergraduate school matter?
Undergraduate Advice
How much does your undergraduate Institution Matter?
How important is undergrad prestige?
Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?
Does Undergraduate School Matter?
to what degree does undergraduate institution matter at HYS?
does undergrad matter at all?
Do law schools really care what school you attended for UG?
How much does UG matter?
College Freshman looking at Law School
178 LSAT, 3.93 GPA - Does UG really matter?
Importance of Undergrad Institution
Unknown Undergraduate Institution
Weight of UG institution in LS+ Big Law
UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype
Will undergrad prestige matter?
Does undergraduate school matter?
Does where you went Undergraduate matter?
does your undergrad university prestige matter?
How much does undergrad school matter?
Does your undergraduate school matter?
Does Undergraduate School Matter?
Does the Undergrad School you graduate from matter?
Does school matter?
Undergrad Prestige
snob appeal of your undergraduate institution
Question about GPA major and school prestige
Is UG prestige a factor in the admission process?
OS Updates: Yes, Virginia, Undergraduate Schools Matter.
How much does where you went to undergrad matter?
Why does quality of undergrad matter so little?
How much does where you did undergrad matter?
How much does what undergrad school you attend matter?
Undergrad doesn't matter! (unless it's a good one)
Does undergrad matter
Quality of undergrad institution does matter!
Does undergrad matter?
Undergrad doesnt matter? WSJ disagrees.
Name of Undergrad School Matter in Applying?
How much weight is given to your undergrad college?
Importance of Undergraduate University??
Does it matter where you do your UG studies for T14 schools?
Does quality of undergrad make a significant difference?
Does UG Really Not Matter?
How much does where you went for UG factor in?



Really? I think it's easier to graduate cum laude from a smaller and less recognized small than from a top 25 school, and I would think that that would be pretty obvious to admission counselors, IMO.

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sinfiery
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby sinfiery » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:08 pm

Motivator9 wrote:
Really? I think it's easier to graduate cum laude from a smaller and less recognized small than from a top 25 school, and I would think that that would be pretty obvious to admission counselors, IMO.


The average GPA for a top schools graduate is significantly higher than that of a less recognized school.


That isn't argument enough, but there is clearly some grey area in this issue. Also, if they had an increased intellectual environment for four years in UG, they would disproportionately score higher on the LSAT versus their actual potential because the same skills they put more time into by their being in said environment translate into doing well on the LSAT.


And on and on. These arguments never end, so at the end of the day the HYPS kids get a slight boost at some schools. Kinda. But only after raw numbers being above/below median are accounted for. Even at HYS, the 173/3.9 is always going to have a better chance at admission than the 173/3.75 HYPS UG

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Nova
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby Nova » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:30 pm

Medians are where the money is at

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KevinP
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby KevinP » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:32 pm

I'm of the opinion that UG absolutely does not matter, sans a few rare exceptions. And I've been looking at law school numbers and analyzing the data for a long time.

Motivator9 wrote:Really? I think it's easier to graduate cum laude from a smaller and less recognized small than from a top 25 school, and I would think that that would be pretty obvious to admission counselors, IMO.

Why should this matter to admission counselors? U.S News does not adjust for UG rigor.

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Motivator9
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby Motivator9 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:03 am

at HYS, the 173/3.9 is always going to have a better chance at admission than the 173/3.75 HYPS UG[/quote]


I wouldn't disagree with this.

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Motivator9
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby Motivator9 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:09 am

KevinP wrote:I'm of the opinion that UG absolutely does not matter, sans a few rare exceptions. And I've been looking at law school numbers and analyzing the data for a long time.

Motivator9 wrote:Really? I think it's easier to graduate cum laude from a smaller and less recognized small than from a top 25 school, and I would think that that would be pretty obvious to admission counselors, IMO.

Why should this matter to admission counselors? U.S News does not adjust for UG rigor.


Well, if Im an employer, and I had to decide between two students with similar grades in law school, I might take their UG into account. Maybe admission counselors figure that your UG institution could possibly improve your job prospects later on, especially if one does not want to work at a law firm after getting a JD. Sure, this consideration might be taken into account in a few number of situations, but I think it's plausible to think that admission counselors might take it into consideration .

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romothesavior
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:09 am

Motivator9 wrote:Really? I think it's easier to graduate cum laude from a smaller and less recognized small than from a top 25 school, and I would think that that would be pretty obvious to admission counselors, IMO.

This assumes they care about what's harder or easier or more prestigious or any of that. It's (almost exclusively) about the stats.

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Motivator9
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby Motivator9 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:12 am

romothesavior wrote:
Motivator9 wrote:Really? I think it's easier to graduate cum laude from a smaller and less recognized small than from a top 25 school, and I would think that that would be pretty obvious to admission counselors, IMO.

This assumes they care about what's harder or easier or more prestigious or any of that. It's (almost exclusively) about the stats.


I wish we could get an admission counselor to weigh, where's Mike Spivey at?

Ti Malice
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby Ti Malice » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:04 am

o'kane wrote:I went to a U.S. News top 5 rated university in the midwest, a university whose students believe that their grades have not been subject to the inflation seen elsewhere.


Chicago's students are wrong. Chicago deserved that reputation some number of years ago, but not anymore. While it's not as bad of an inflator as the worst offenders, its median GPA is still pushing 3.4 these days.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:56 am

Omg stoppp this is so lame and every educated individual reading this is thinking the same thing. UChicago students need to get over themselves. Your school wasn't that much harder, you're just nerdier and spent less time above ground.

I attended to a "T5" private school (and my cycle played out well, but not above what my numbers would allow). I predict you will see a small boost at Uchi law and its peers (columbia/harvard) just because your a known quantity and your LoR profs went to the same lame coke parties during grad school in the 80s, but it wont overcome a low GPA.

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hohenheim
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby hohenheim » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:33 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Motivator9 wrote:Really? I think it's easier to graduate cum laude from a smaller and less recognized small than from a top 25 school, and I would think that that would be pretty obvious to admission counselors, IMO.

This assumes they care about what's harder or easier or more prestigious or any of that. It's (almost exclusively) about the stats.

I'm inclined to think that if the numbers are equal, then prestige starts coming into play, but medians are definitely king

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jbagelboy
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Re: Boost for Top Undergrad School??

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:29 pm

Motivator9 wrote:
KevinP wrote:I'm of the opinion that UG absolutely does not matter, sans a few rare exceptions. And I've been looking at law school numbers and analyzing the data for a long time.

Motivator9 wrote:Really? I think it's easier to graduate cum laude from a smaller and less recognized small than from a top 25 school, and I would think that that would be pretty obvious to admission counselors, IMO.

Why should this matter to admission counselors? U.S News does not adjust for UG rigor.


Well, if Im an employer, and I had to decide between two students with similar grades in law school, I might take their UG into account. Maybe admission counselors figure that your UG institution could possibly improve your job prospects later on, especially if one does not want to work at a law firm after getting a JD. Sure, this consideration might be taken into account in a few number of situations, but I think it's plausible to think that admission counselors might take it into consideration .


I agree Undergrad will have an impact for employers/OCI (as would anything on your resume..), but adcoms are NOT law firms or hiring partners/judges, and the logical jump that schools would accept the most employable candidates is fallacious so long as USNWR privileges UGPA/LSAT over employment data. So that fact and analogy tells nothing really




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