3.42 166 NA URM

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Zaffy
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3.42 166 NA URM

Postby Zaffy » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:45 pm

GPA: 3.42
LSAT: 166 (June 2013)
URM: Native American (edited for clarification: I am not enrolled with a tribe, however, I have federal recognition that my grandmother is of Inuit heritage, tied to a specific region, with no tribal affiliation at this point.)

I have mediocre softs at best, but I do have an upward grade trend (all As and A+s) from the last 5 semesters. My dream was to go to NYU, but I feel like that is out at this point unless I retake. I am not oppose to retaking but I can't say I'm very enthusiastic about it.

I have set my goal school now as UT Austin... what are my chances?
Last edited by Zaffy on Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nightrunner
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Re: 3.42 166 NA URM

Postby Nightrunner » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:49 pm

A. Are you from Texas?
B. Are you enrolled in a tribe?
C. What, if anything, indicates a connection to your Native culture?

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FryBreadPower
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Re: 3.42 166 NA URM

Postby FryBreadPower » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:50 pm

Zaffy wrote:GPA: 3.42
LSAT: 166 (June 2013)
URM: Native American

I have mediocre softs at best, but I do have an upward grade trend (all As and A+s) from the last 5 semesters. My dream was to go to NYU, but I feel like that is out at this point unless I retake. I am not oppose to retaking but I can't say I'm very enthusiastic about it.

I have set my goal school now as UT Austin... what are my chances?


Re-take. I took a 175/3.6 to NYU and Berkeley w/$$. If you can get your LSAT score a few points higher, you'll have a substantially better chance.

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twenty
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Re: 3.42 166 NA URM

Postby twenty » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:19 pm

No tribal affiliation = not URM.

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Nightrunner
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Re: 3.42 166 NA URM

Postby Nightrunner » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:27 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:No tribal affiliation = not URM.

Not entirely true. There are a metric shitton of reasons why someone might not have a tribal affiliation (many of which are very valid), so many admissions offices refuse to make that dispositive. An Indian whose father didn't enroll him because he bailed, or an Indian whose family hasn't been enrolled since the Boarding School Era grandfather internalized his inner "whiteness," or an Indian who is not allowed to enroll because his tribe has casino revenue (and thus stringent enrollment qualifications), or an Indian whose tribe is not recognized by the federal government...all of these Indians can be Indians.

This is where cultural connection can come into play. Other factors can bolster cultural/racial/identity credibility, including but not limited to: showing involvement in Indian student groups; practicing traditional ceremonies; spending any time on a reservation; having an Indian name; speaking your language; volunteering for any type of NDN public interest; and lifelong identification as a Native. Convergence of these factors can indicate your "Indianness," and convince an AdComm of your ability to contribute to the intellectual and cultural diversity of a class, which can result in being treated like a URM.

A kid who checked "white" on his college apps, and whose diversity statement asserts "my great-great-grandma was a Cherokee princess and that's where I get these cheekbones," on the other hand, probably only flies with the most unethical of schools, desperate to boost diversity numbers by whatever ethnic fraud necessary.

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MyNameIsFlynn!
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Re: 3.42 166 NA URM

Postby MyNameIsFlynn! » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:47 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:No tribal affiliation = not URM.

Not entirely true. There are a metric shitton of reasons why someone might not have a tribal affiliation (many of which are very valid), so many admissions offices refuse to make that dispositive. An Indian whose father didn't enroll him because he bailed, or an Indian whose family hasn't been enrolled since the Boarding School Era grandfather internalized his inner "whiteness," or an Indian who is not allowed to enroll because his tribe has casino revenue (and thus stringent enrollment qualifications), or an Indian whose tribe is not recognized by the federal government...all of these Indians can be Indians.

This is where cultural connection can come into play. Other factors can bolster cultural/racial/identity credibility, including but not limited to: showing involvement in Indian student groups; practicing traditional ceremonies; spending any time on a reservation; having an Indian name; speaking your language; volunteering for any type of NDN public interest; and lifelong identification as a Native. Convergence of these factors can indicate your "Indianness," and convince an AdComm of your ability to contribute to the intellectual and cultural diversity of a class, which can result in being treated like a URM.

A kid who checked "white" on his college apps, and whose diversity statement asserts "my great-great-grandma was a Cherokee princess and that's where I get these cheekbones," on the other hand, probably only flies with the most unethical of schools, desperate to boost diversity numbers by whatever ethnic fraud necessary.


That's a wordy way of saying Hahvahd would consider OP an Indian if he checked the right box

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jbagelboy
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Re: 3.42 166 NA URM

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:51 pm

How is the NA boost relative to AA?

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Nightrunner
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Re: 3.42 166 NA URM

Postby Nightrunner » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:55 pm

MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:No tribal affiliation = not URM.

Not entirely true. There are a metric shitton of reasons why someone might not have a tribal affiliation (many of which are very valid), so many admissions offices refuse to make that dispositive. An Indian whose father didn't enroll him because he bailed, or an Indian whose family hasn't been enrolled since the Boarding School Era grandfather internalized his inner "whiteness," or an Indian who is not allowed to enroll because his tribe has casino revenue (and thus stringent enrollment qualifications), or an Indian whose tribe is not recognized by the federal government...all of these Indians can be Indians.

This is where cultural connection can come into play. Other factors can bolster cultural/racial/identity credibility, including but not limited to: showing involvement in Indian student groups; practicing traditional ceremonies; spending any time on a reservation; having an Indian name; speaking your language; volunteering for any type of NDN public interest; and lifelong identification as a Native. Convergence of these factors can indicate your "Indianness," and convince an AdComm of your ability to contribute to the intellectual and cultural diversity of a class, which can result in being treated like a URM.

A kid who checked "white" on his college apps, and whose diversity statement asserts "my great-great-grandma was a Cherokee princess and that's where I get these cheekbones," on the other hand, probably only flies with the most unethical of schools, desperate to boost diversity numbers by whatever ethnic fraud necessary.


That's a wordy way of saying Hahvahd would consider OP an Indian if he checked the right box

Harvard actually asks whether an applicant has a tribal affiliation, and many of their "Indian" students are legitimately Indian.

But yeah, a lot of prestigious schools have little problem accepting a kid with the right numbers and calling him an Indian for diversity purposes, even if he's just a box-checker. This is unfortunate, but true.

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twenty
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Re: 3.42 166 NA URM

Postby twenty » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:01 pm

While the data is certainly very limited, it would definitely seem like federally-registered tribe members will receive a URM boost, whereas (again, limited data) non-enrolled members do not enjoy the same -- at least, according to LSN profiles.

I guess I shouldn't be so forthcoming with NO ENROLL NO BOOST SUCKAH, since there really isn't anywhere close to enough data to confirm that. But I think it is a fair hypothesis. OP certainly shouldn't "count" on getting the URM boost, and should definitely retake regardless.

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Nightrunner
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Re: 3.42 166 NA URM

Postby Nightrunner » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:51 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:While the data is certainly very limited, it would definitely seem like federally-registered tribe members will receive a URM boost, whereas (again, limited data) non-enrolled members do not enjoy the same -- at least, according to LSN profiles.

I guess I shouldn't be so forthcoming with NO ENROLL NO BOOST SUCKAH, since there really isn't anywhere close to enough data to confirm that. But I think it is a fair hypothesis. OP certainly shouldn't "count" on getting the URM boost, and should definitely retake regardless.

I personally know two non-enrolled NDN kids on minority-only scholarships, and at least one more who seemed to get the same admissions "boost" I got during our admissions cycle (I'm a tribal member), but all three of them had some (or most) of the factors I outlined above. I also realize that this is mere anecdata.

You're right that OP shouldn't bank on it, though. Definitely.

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Motivator9
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Re: 3.42 166 NA URM

Postby Motivator9 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:58 pm

If you've always marked yourself to be a NA on your application, then mark NA. Things look good based on your numbers http://mylsn.info/nyzoir

amalgamate
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Re: 3.42 166 NA URM

Postby amalgamate » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:13 pm

Have you though about enrolling in a tribe, even if not recognized by BIA? All of my family members(including me) are enrolled in a tribe that isn't recognized by the BIA but is a legitimate tribe. The general answer I got when I asked my top school about whether or not I should mark myself as NA is that it depends on if I'm involved in my heritage and if it's important to me, which it is.




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