2.98, 165, chances at a top 60 school? Forum

[jk0786]

Large state undergrad. class of 2011, been working 1 full time, 1 part time job since graduating (small business finance, small tutoring co)
had 1 firm internship at a PI/immigration firm.

I am a multiple taker, 155, 1 cancel, then 165. I've continued PT'ing on my own, scoring into 170's now.

From a hyper-conservative perspective, do I have a shot at any top 60 schools. If not, do I wait for the two year mark on multiple scores?

[nebula666]

What do you mean "any" Top 60 schools?

Where do you have ties? Where do you want to live? Are you just going to drop everything and work for the rest of your life in whichever random Top 60 school you can get into? Also, why Top 60? That is a very random number.

The answer is yes. You will most likely be in at:

WUSTL
Alabama
Indiana
Iowa
W&L
UGA
U Wisconsin
Wake
Arizona
George Mason

and every other school below.

You will probably get the most money from Alabama but I doubt you are ready to work there for who knows how long. They seem to like your numbers in general.

Here's someone with your exact numbers this cycle

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/lhanvt13

[Ti Malice]

Large state undergrad. class of 2011, been working 1 full time, 1 part time job since graduating (small business finance, small tutoring co)
had 1 firm internship at a PI/immigration firm.

I am a multiple taker, 155, 1 cancel, then 165. I've continued PT'ing on my own, scoring into 170's now.

From a hyper-conservative perspective, do I have a shot at any top 60 schools. If not, do I wait for the two year mark on multiple scores?

There is no such thing as "T60." Why do you automatically assume that the USNWR rankings have value?

All of the schools that you will be able to get into with your numbers place locally. The rankings mean nothing. Outside of the nationally elite schools, no employer in a secondary market is going to value a JD from some faraway school more highly than one from the local TT just because some worthless magazine ranks the schools a certain way. Someone from Temple (56th) is going to do a lot better than someone with similar grades from Iowa (26th) in finding a job in Philly. Someone from U of Denver (64th) will have a much easier go of it in Denver/Boulder than someone with similar grades from Alabama (21st...LOL). Some higher-ranked schools have worse placement than schools ranked much lower. American (56th) has worse placement than the majority of the unranked schools (~150th and below).

Many secondary markets are very insular, and merely moving to one for law school won't be enough to establish the necessary ties. If you go to a school in an insular market where you have no ties, you're probably screwed from the beginning. It will be very tough for you to land a job locally, and employers from outside of the area won't be interested either.

Also, attending any of the schools that will presently admit you is not a "hyper-conservative" move -- it's completely reckless. No decent school that will presently admit you will be close to worth the debt you'll have to take on. If you're PTing in the 170s, the true conservative play is to retake when you become eligible again and to not apply until you've gotten a score in the 170s. Even with your GPA, you would have a shot at more than one T14 school with a 170+ LSAT. With your work experience, a 172+ would give you a good chance at Northwestern. You probably also pick up a couple of big scholarships from some of the better regional schools with a 170+.

Spend a good deal of time on this website: http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/. Check out the "Score Reports" and "Reform Central" areas, among others. Look at the ABA employment data for different schools. Understand, for instance, that Arizona State's shiny 95.8% employment rate in USNWR is a sham; that figure includes baristas at Starbucks who can't find work as lawyers. Only 61.3% of ASU's 2012 class found full-time, long-term, JD-required work within nine months of graduation. But ASU has gamed USNWR's rankings nicely over the last couple of years, and fools have rushed in, thinking that their jump in the rankings from the 40s to the mid-20s actually means something. Don't be a sucker like those people.

[jk0786]

Thank you both for the insightful responses!

And apologies for not being more specific. It sounds like I have some thinking to do. To clarify, I guess that I was aiming towards t60 schools as I had heard from less informed sources that if I don't get into a t60, I would not have even a 3% shot of landing a big law job in the respective city in the region that the school is located near. Ideally, I would like to go to a Virginia school, though I have South Carolina / Georgia ties. I would like to practice in the DC or Virginia region, but I would also like to have a shot at landing a job near the FL/GA area if things don't pan out in the DC area (which from what I gather about saturation percentages is fairly high).

[romothesavior]

Thank you both for the insightful responses!

And apologies for not being more specific. It sounds like I have some thinking to do. To clarify, I guess that I was aiming towards t60 schools as I had heard from less informed sources that if I don't get into a t60, I would not have even a 3% shot of landing a big law job in the respective city in the region that the school is located near. Ideally, I would like to go to a Virginia school, though I have South Carolina / Georgia ties. I would like to practice in the DC or Virginia region, but I would also like to have a shot at landing a job near the FL/GA area if things don't pan out in the DC area (which from what I gather about saturation percentages is fairly high).

T60 isn't really a thing. USNWR is fairly meaningless.

You need to continue prepping hard and retake again. With your GPA, law school is probably not worth it without a high 160s or 170s score, especially since it sounds like big law is your goal. You'd be looking at a lot of debt for poor biglaw chances from a mediocre school with your current numbers.