LSAT 160/GPA 2.14, law school worth it at all?

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jbagelboy
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Re: LSAT 160/GPA 2.14, law school worth it at all?

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:23 am

twentypercentmore wrote:I'm sort of asking this rhetorically, but also with a fair amount of legitimacy. Can you, like, academically-retroactively withdraw from all four years of college? Honestly, you're probably just as well off without a college degree at this point than you are with a 2.14 ITE.

Or, hey, if you're young enough, reboot your college career and go for merchant marine academy or something.


Im pretty sure the only way this would work would be if the university closed, or lost its accreditation. Then OP could repeat with a new LSAC GPA.

Solution a la whitecastle: burn that mother fucker down.

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jselson
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Re: LSAT 160/GPA 2.14, law school worth it at all?

Postby jselson » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:36 am

jbagelboy wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:I'm sort of asking this rhetorically, but also with a fair amount of legitimacy. Can you, like, academically-retroactively withdraw from all four years of college? Honestly, you're probably just as well off without a college degree at this point than you are with a 2.14 ITE.

Or, hey, if you're young enough, reboot your college career and go for merchant marine academy or something.


Im pretty sure the only way this would work would be if the university closed, or lost its accreditation. Then OP could repeat with a new LSAC GPA.

Solution a la whitecastle: burn that mother fucker down.


This is the only way. OP, remember, people who have done worse have been admitted to law schools.

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: LSAT 160/GPA 2.14, law school worth it at all?

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:25 pm

PRgradBYU wrote:
sam62188 wrote:No I'm not an AA male, kind of amazing that would make things significantly different in the admissions process.


It wouldn't make things significantly different in the admissions process for someone with your numbers. Also, I don't appreciate the slight animosity with which you worded this. Don't think that your tone went unnoticed. It's your own fault that law school doesn't make sense for you, so instead of slamming the AA boost, spend some time choosing another career.


Lol @ the super-Pro AA guys. You can't even infer anything negative (accidentally, in this case) about AA without some AA benefactor getting self righteous on you.

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aboutmydaylight
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Re: LSAT 160/GPA 2.14, law school worth it at all?

Postby aboutmydaylight » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:58 pm

He wouldn't crack the T14 even with an AA male boost so it doesn't even matter.

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Presidentjlh
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Re: LSAT 160/GPA 2.14, law school worth it at all?

Postby Presidentjlh » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:08 pm

Yeah, unless there's anything you can do to bump that GPA up to...I dunno...at least 2.6...I don't know any schools worth going to that would let you in unless you had like a 179 on the LSAT, and even then, I wouldn't bet on it.

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MCL Law Dean
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Re: LSAT 160/GPA 2.14, law school worth it at all?

Postby MCL Law Dean » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:06 am

jselson wrote:Actually, there may be a few regional schools in very small markets that completely dominate where the OP might be making an okay risk assessment by attending if he had ties


To confirm 'jselson's' previos point, I might suggest that one of the California accredited law schools might be worth at least considering.

Some factors to consider:

First, the financial cost/employment ratios are more likely to work for you.
- Tuition is much lower (<$70K for the entire degree).
- You can work during the day to cover living expenses and maybe even part/all of tuition.
- If you have to take out some loans, they will likely be relatively small (under $50K total) and even in smaller rural communities where CBE schools are located, the local job market for new lawyers is likely to pay high enough ($50-70K) to cover the debt payments and a reasonable living standard while you build your practice.

Second, CBE schools are going to look at your last two years (that you say were much stronger academically) and not just your final GPA.

Third, even if you did not move significantly higher on your June retake, your current LSAT of 155 is above the median for CBE schools that are used to non-traditional (older, working) students having lower scores on standardized testing.

Finally, small CBE schools like Monterey College of Law (where I am Dean) can afford to have extensive academic support programs to help non-traditional working students, because we know that these types of programs (study skills, exam skills, extra writing support) are the only way that our graduates can be successful on the bar exam and in the job market.

Note: We are NOT for your average, normal TLSer who is planning their life around BigLaw. However, we do provide an alternative for someone who has a strong enough desire to be a lawyer that they will do the extra hard work to overcome a poor undergraduate academic experience and who is interested in the lifestyle and attorney work style of a small community.

NOT trying to talk you into a different path . . . but you asked about the alternatives, and given your specific credentials, you might look at the CBE alternatives. FYI, even with the CBE schools, if you are looking at Fall 2013 you need to kick it in higher gear. Our popular Jurisprudence course for incoming 1Ls starts July 1.

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Presidentjlh
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Re: LSAT 160/GPA 2.14, law school worth it at all?

Postby Presidentjlh » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:48 am

MCL Law Dean wrote:
jselson wrote:Actually, there may be a few regional schools in very small markets that completely dominate where the OP might be making an okay risk assessment by attending if he had ties


To confirm 'jselson's' previos point, I might suggest that one of the California accredited law schools might be worth at least considering.

Some factors to consider:

First, the financial cost/employment ratios are more likely to work for you.
- Tuition is much lower (<$70K for the entire degree).
- You can work during the day to cover living expenses and maybe even part/all of tuition.
- If you have to take out some loans, they will likely be relatively small (under $50K total) and even in smaller rural communities where CBE schools are located, the local job market for new lawyers is likely to pay high enough ($50-70K) to cover the debt payments and a reasonable living standard while you build your practice.

Second, CBE schools are going to look at your last two years (that you say were much stronger academically) and not just your final GPA.

Third, even if you did not move significantly higher on your June retake, your current LSAT of 155 is above the median for CBE schools that are used to non-traditional (older, working) students having lower scores on standardized testing.

Finally, small CBE schools like Monterey College of Law (where I am Dean) can afford to have extensive academic support programs to help non-traditional working students, because we know that these types of programs (study skills, exam skills, extra writing support) are the only way that our graduates can be successful on the bar exam and in the job market.

Note: We are NOT for your average, normal TLSer who is planning their life around BigLaw. However, we do provide an alternative for someone who has a strong enough desire to be a lawyer that they will do the extra hard work to overcome a poor undergraduate academic experience and who is interested in the lifestyle and attorney work style of a small community.

NOT trying to talk you into a different path . . . but you asked about the alternatives, and given your specific credentials, you might look at the CBE alternatives. FYI, even with the CBE schools, if you are looking at Fall 2013 you need to kick it in higher gear. Our popular Jurisprudence course for incoming 1Ls starts July 1.


Before you go any further, sir, I must ask, with all due respect, what are your employment percentages, would he be up for scholarships, and would they have stipulations?

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jselson
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Re: LSAT 160/GPA 2.14, law school worth it at all?

Postby jselson » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:56 am

Presidentjlh wrote:
MCL Law Dean wrote:
jselson wrote:Actually, there may be a few regional schools in very small markets that completely dominate where the OP might be making an okay risk assessment by attending if he had ties


To confirm 'jselson's' previos point, I might suggest that one of the California accredited law schools might be worth at least considering.

Some factors to consider:

First, the financial cost/employment ratios are more likely to work for you.
- Tuition is much lower (<$70K for the entire degree).
- You can work during the day to cover living expenses and maybe even part/all of tuition.
- If you have to take out some loans, they will likely be relatively small (under $50K total) and even in smaller rural communities where CBE schools are located, the local job market for new lawyers is likely to pay high enough ($50-70K) to cover the debt payments and a reasonable living standard while you build your practice.

Second, CBE schools are going to look at your last two years (that you say were much stronger academically) and not just your final GPA.

Third, even if you did not move significantly higher on your June retake, your current LSAT of 155 is above the median for CBE schools that are used to non-traditional (older, working) students having lower scores on standardized testing.

Finally, small CBE schools like Monterey College of Law (where I am Dean) can afford to have extensive academic support programs to help non-traditional working students, because we know that these types of programs (study skills, exam skills, extra writing support) are the only way that our graduates can be successful on the bar exam and in the job market.

Note: We are NOT for your average, normal TLSer who is planning their life around BigLaw. However, we do provide an alternative for someone who has a strong enough desire to be a lawyer that they will do the extra hard work to overcome a poor undergraduate academic experience and who is interested in the lifestyle and attorney work style of a small community.

NOT trying to talk you into a different path . . . but you asked about the alternatives, and given your specific credentials, you might look at the CBE alternatives. FYI, even with the CBE schools, if you are looking at Fall 2013 you need to kick it in higher gear. Our popular Jurisprudence course for incoming 1Ls starts July 1.


Before you go any further, sir, I must ask, with all due respect, what are your employment percentages, would he be up for scholarships, and would they have stipulations?


MCL Dean is cool, and he answered a bunch of these kinda questions in his thread a month or two back. Check his post history.

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Presidentjlh
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Re: LSAT 160/GPA 2.14, law school worth it at all?

Postby Presidentjlh » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:58 am

jselson wrote:
Presidentjlh wrote:
MCL Law Dean wrote:
jselson wrote:Actually, there may be a few regional schools in very small markets that completely dominate where the OP might be making an okay risk assessment by attending if he had ties


To confirm 'jselson's' previos point, I might suggest that one of the California accredited law schools might be worth at least considering.

Some factors to consider:

First, the financial cost/employment ratios are more likely to work for you.
- Tuition is much lower (<$70K for the entire degree).
- You can work during the day to cover living expenses and maybe even part/all of tuition.
- If you have to take out some loans, they will likely be relatively small (under $50K total) and even in smaller rural communities where CBE schools are located, the local job market for new lawyers is likely to pay high enough ($50-70K) to cover the debt payments and a reasonable living standard while you build your practice.

Second, CBE schools are going to look at your last two years (that you say were much stronger academically) and not just your final GPA.

Third, even if you did not move significantly higher on your June retake, your current LSAT of 155 is above the median for CBE schools that are used to non-traditional (older, working) students having lower scores on standardized testing.

Finally, small CBE schools like Monterey College of Law (where I am Dean) can afford to have extensive academic support programs to help non-traditional working students, because we know that these types of programs (study skills, exam skills, extra writing support) are the only way that our graduates can be successful on the bar exam and in the job market.

Note: We are NOT for your average, normal TLSer who is planning their life around BigLaw. However, we do provide an alternative for someone who has a strong enough desire to be a lawyer that they will do the extra hard work to overcome a poor undergraduate academic experience and who is interested in the lifestyle and attorney work style of a small community.

NOT trying to talk you into a different path . . . but you asked about the alternatives, and given your specific credentials, you might look at the CBE alternatives. FYI, even with the CBE schools, if you are looking at Fall 2013 you need to kick it in higher gear. Our popular Jurisprudence course for incoming 1Ls starts July 1.


Before you go any further, sir, I must ask, with all due respect, what are your employment percentages, would he be up for scholarships, and would they have stipulations?


MCL Dean is cool, and he answered a bunch of these kinda questions in his thread a month or two back.

I was just looking through those. Seems like someone who actually understands the current situation in legal education.

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Presidentjlh
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Re: LSAT 160/GPA 2.14, law school worth it at all?

Postby Presidentjlh » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:02 pm

MCL Dean makes some good points, and while you must always be sure to do your own research, looking at the information he provided and provided by others in a previous post he did, I think it's safe to say he's not like some dean from Cooley or Phoenix that's just out to try to take in as many poor grads as they can get. Again, don't take this as me saying that it's a surefire bet to go there, but it wouldn't be too bad to consider him, especially since the price would be much more affordable than anywhere else you would get into that's ABA, since I'm afraid scholarships would be unlikely.

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twenty
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Re: LSAT 160/GPA 2.14, law school worth it at all?

Postby twenty » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:53 pm

While it is a Christian correspondence law school, Oak Brook College of Law has an okay bar passage rate (40%-70%). Tuition ends up being about 6k a year for four years.

The only thing you can do coming from an unaccredited law school is hang a shingle in California, but hey, if your alternative is to pour concrete (which it may be with a 2.14...)

sam62188
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Re: LSAT 160/GPA 2.14, law school worth it at all?

Postby sam62188 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:33 pm

Thank you MCL Dean for such a detailed and thoughtful post.

At this point I am applying for the 2014 cycle regardless, I feel like its worth the application fee to see what my options are. I get that most of you don't see LS as a good option for me, but I feel that it is better to try something new and improve your situation, rather than keep going with what you know doesn't work.

I looked at getting an MBA, but that seemed more difficult as I don't have enough work experience, my experience lacks prestige, and also my low GPA. I thought about getting a MA/MS, but I don't have a grasp of the UG classes so I would be behind on day one. Another BA/BS seems like a really bad idea as it was difficult for me to find work with the first one.

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MCL Law Dean
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Re: LSAT 160/GPA 2.14, law school worth it at all?

Postby MCL Law Dean » Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:36 pm

sam62188 wrote:Thank you MCL Dean for such a detailed and thoughtful post.

At this point I am applying for the 2014 cycle regardless, I feel like its worth the application fee to see what my options are. I get that most of you don't see LS as a good option for me, but I feel that it is better to try something new and improve your situation, rather than keep going with what you know doesn't work.

I looked at getting an MBA, but that seemed more difficult as I don't have enough work experience, my experience lacks prestige, and also my low GPA. I thought about getting a MA/MS, but I don't have a grasp of the UG classes so I would be behind on day one. Another BA/BS seems like a really bad idea as it was difficult for me to find work with the first one.


I guess my greatest concern for you still is that you appear to be focused on letting outside factors determine whether law school is for you . . . i.e. you'll go if some school will take you. What I don't "hear" in any of your posts is that you have thought through the hard word required in law school, made a determination that the program/career is really something that you are willing to work HARD for, and that you will do what it takes to be successful. Without those commitments, I fear that you are wasting your time and money, regardless of where you go . . . CBE, ABA, or on-line.




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