LSAT 160/GPA 2.14, law school worth it at all? Forum

[sam62188]

Hi folks,

My question is if the cost of law school would be worth it in my situation (sorry if this is the wrong forum for this). I graduated from Cal-Davis in June 2010 with a 2.14 LSAC GPA and just took the LSAT for a 3rd time.

My scores:
June 2010: Cancelled
Dec 2010: 155
June 2013: estimated 159-161

When I first started my LSAT prep I had a 170 or bust attitude and after my 2nd try I decided that law school wasn't worth it given my stats. I recently got laid off from my job and after dozens of bad interview at lower paying jobs than my previous position; I decided to give the LSAT one last try. Even though the score hasn't arrived I feel my performance matched my PTs leading up to it, so 159-161 would be about right.

The reason I ask this question before the scores come out is so I can quickly work towards applying to law school (LORs, personal statements, etc.) or choosing a different path. Since I have burned through all 68 released PTs, there will be no more retakes.

I currently live in Northern California and am flexible about where I will work in the future. Assuming an opportunity cost of 25-30k/year, would law school be worth it from a financial standpoint?

Thanks in advance.

[jbagelboy]

I currently live in Northern California and am flexible about where I will work in the future. Assuming an opportunity cost of 25-30k/year, would law school be worth it from a financial standpoint?

unless your AA male, none. hard truth, but sorry. even with a fourth retake, you'd be hard pressed to go to any school that would make sense from an opportunity standpoint with that GPA. You must have failed many, many courses.

[sam62188]

I currently live in Northern California and am flexible about where I will work in the future. Assuming an opportunity cost of 25-30k/year, would law school be worth it from a financial standpoint?

unless your AA male, none. hard truth, but sorry. even with a fourth retake, you'd be hard pressed to go to any school that would make sense from an opportunity standpoint with that GPA. You must have failed many, many courses.

Thanks for such a quick response. No I'm not an AA male, kind of amazing that would make things significantly different in the admissions process. I actually only failed one course, but I doubt that makes a difference.

Thanks again.

[Clearly]

Hate to say it, but economically, law school would likely be a poor decision for you.

[meanmugger]

Assuming an opportunity cost of 25-30k/year, would law school be worth it from a financial standpoint?

Absolutely not.

[sublime]

..

[sam62188]

I currently live in Northern California and am flexible about where I will work in the future. Assuming an opportunity cost of 25-30k/year, would law school be worth it from a financial standpoint?

unless your AA male, none. hard truth, but sorry. even with a fourth retake, you'd be hard pressed to go to any school that would make sense from an opportunity standpoint with that GPA. You must have failed many, many courses.

Thanks for such a quick response. No I'm not an AA male, kind of amazing that would make things significantly different in the admissions process. I actually only failed one course, but I doubt that makes a difference.

Thanks again.

How did you only fail one course? Mathematically, that would be quite difficult unless you had either a shitton of D's or was amazingly consistent at getting C's, even in lower level courses. I don't want to be an ass, but am legitimately interested.

Haha no offense taken, I get that a lot. I got a lot of C's and D's as you guessed, I actually did far worse in my lower division courses than the upper division courses.

[sam62188]

Hate to say it, but economically, law school would likely be a poor decision for you.

From the standpoint that I would be unable to find work with a JD or that the income level I would attain would be too low to warrant that kind of invest or both?

[sublime]

..

[sam62188]

Hate to say it, but economically, law school would likely be a poor decision for you.

From the standpoint that I would be unable to find work with a JD or that the income level I would attain would be too low to warrant that kind of invest or both?

Not to speak for him, but I believe where he is going with this is that you are probably looking at paying sticker at a T2. That will probably be at least 200k in debt at a school where you have about a 50/50 chance of getting a job, and only a 5% chance (generous estimate) of getting a job that would pay you enough to service those debts.

Ah thanks that really helps clear things up. Would getting a partial scholarship at a T3 or a full at a T4 be any better? Or would that reduce the chance of getting a job to like 25/75?

[sublime]

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[PRgradBYU]

No I'm not an AA male, kind of amazing that would make things significantly different in the admissions process.

It wouldn't make things significantly different in the admissions process for someone with your numbers. Also, I don't appreciate the slight animosity with which you worded this. Don't think that your tone went unnoticed. It's your own fault that law school doesn't make sense for you, so instead of slamming the AA boost, spend some time choosing another career.

[jbagelboy]

No I'm not an AA male, kind of amazing that would make things significantly different in the admissions process.

It wouldn't make things significantly different in the admissions process for someone with your numbers. Also, I don't appreciate the slight animosity with which you worded this. Don't think that your tone went unnoticed. It's your own fault that law school doesn't make sense for you, so instead of slamming the AA boost, spend some time choosing another career.

This is probably more my fault for prompting the URM question. At the ~2.2 level, even the AA boost doesn't do much good -- the LSN sample size is too small in that GPA range to gather any reasonable conclusions. I think it picks up strongest b/t 2.9 and 3.4ish. What I meant more is that if OP was URM and hit a 170 LSAT, they could find themselves in demand enough median wise to get into a T1 school, but otherwise they are just SOL either way. I couldn't find a single example of a urm/sub 2.4/170+ candidate though so I have no reference.

I can't speak for OP, but I'm just data mining here, I'm not trying to make any commentary whatsoever on the merits or demerits of affirmative action

[sublime]

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[Eberry]

No I'm not an AA male, kind of amazing that would make things significantly different in the admissions process.

It wouldn't make things significantly different in the admissions process for someone with your numbers. Also, I don't appreciate the slight animosity with which you worded this. Don't think that your tone went unnoticed. It's your own fault that law school doesn't make sense for you, so instead of slamming the AA boost, spend some time choosing another career.

Cool down, broseph.

[Stanley Otto Swift]

No I'm not an AA male, kind of amazing that would make things significantly different in the admissions process.

It wouldn't make things significantly different in the admissions process for someone with your numbers. Also, I don't appreciate the slight animosity with which you worded this. Don't think that your tone went unnoticed. It's your own fault that law school doesn't make sense for you, so instead of slamming the AA boost, spend some time choosing another career.

(insecure AA recipient)

AA debates do not belong in this thread. User has been warned.

[sublime]

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[crumpetsandtea]

Let's avoid having an AA debate ITT, y'all. There's an entire thread dedicated to that if you want to discuss it! (:

OP - unless you bring your LSAT up 13+ points, LS is not a good option for you, for the reasons mentioned before.

[sam62188]

My fault everyone didn't mean to offend anyone or turn the attention of the thread to somewhere else.

Thanks for all your responses.

[PRgradBYU]

Didn't mean to turn this thread into an AA discussion. I just didn't want OP thinking that he would have a substantially better admissions cycle if he were AA male, because that is most definitely not the case. OP's GPA is just too low for that.

All else aside, TITCR:

OP - unless you bring your LSAT up 13+ points, LS is not a good option for you, for the reasons mentioned before.

[Ruluo]

There didn't appear to be any "animosity" in OP's comment; since he's apparently new to looking into law school, why wouldn't he be surprised at the significant discrepancy in necessary qualifications for each school? If he didn't know the process/system or about the LSAT/GPA distribution disparities, for instance, why would he assume that there would need to be a preferences system?

In a sense, it's a positive indication that he would express surprise, since lack of awareness (like his prior understanding) helps fight the stigma that AA beneficiaries are less qualified (which is not always the case).

[laww]

No I'm not an AA male, kind of amazing that would make things significantly different in the admissions process.

It wouldn't make things significantly different in the admissions process for someone with your numbers. Also, I don't appreciate the slight animosity with which you worded this. Don't think that your tone went unnoticed. It's your own fault that law school doesn't make sense for you, so instead of slamming the AA boost, spend some time choosing another career.

I couldn't tell if he was being shitty about it or not so I tried to give the benefit of the doubt.

I am completely pro AA, but I have said similar things in the past, as it would be quite a boost for my numbers. T20 -> HLS. I hope statements I have made prior haven't been taken the wrong way

At the same time, would I have those numbers without the benefit of white privilege and certain experiences I have had which are (unfortunately) more common in white families than black ones? Impossible to know for sure, but you would have to assume not, I suppose.

I'm pro AA as well. Some things are not in our hands and poor circumstances should not hinder one's shot at a good life. I"m not AA but just my 2c

[0831kf]

Hard truth. Don't go to law school with your stat. Two years later, if you can bring it upto 170s, then I will recant what I say today.

You will probably
1. Have to pay sticker (appx $250K private or $150K public)
And get a job that pays you less than $50K/yr
2. Or worst case, not get a job at all

Chance of the things that I mentioned not happening is less than 5% IMO. With your undergrad GPA, unless you've magically changed since now and then, I assume you will have similar trouble in Law school, which will make you end up at bottom 20% at any T1 school.

Financially speaking, you MUST NOT go to law school. I repeat, you MUST NOT (unless you bring LSAT upto 170s). If you do, chance of you regretting for the rest of your life is more than 99% as of right now. Other than financial reasons, I don't know.

Well, if you choose to go T3-4 with full ride, maybe you can justify your decision. Otherwise, please don't go for your life's sake.

[jselson]

Law school would be a bad decision not just because of your numbers, but also because you may just not perform well in an academic environment. How do you know that you would be able to perform better/work harder than what your current gpa implies? It seems strange, but as you go down the rankings, students within schools get a lot more competitive. How would you know you could keep up?

Edit: Actually, there may be a few regional schools in very small markets that completely dominate where the OP might be making an okay risk assessment by attending if he had ties (Wyoming, Maine). But that's the only situation that I wouldn't think OP was making a terrible decision.

[twenty]

I'm sort of asking this rhetorically, but also with a fair amount of legitimacy. Can you, like, academically-retroactively withdraw from all four years of college? Honestly, you're probably just as well off without a college degree at this point than you are with a 2.14 ITE.

Or, hey, if you're young enough, reboot your college career and go for merchant marine academy or something.